UPDATE: LT Kelvin Beachum signs with Jags

[HawkFan72]

Dang it we are going to end up with another gutter ball at LT.

After the last few years would you be surprised? I feel like no real talent has been added to the position since 2011. We've just been losing guys since. Every year we say that the O-line needs to be addressed, but we watch another proven starter walk out the door only to be replaced by a raw draft pick who doesn't live up to the last guy.

 

[kf3339]

Dang it we are going to end up with another gutter ball at LT.

After the last few years would you be surprised? I feel like no real talent has been added to the position since 2011. We've just been losing guys since. Every year we say that the O-line needs to be addressed, but we watch another proven starter walk out the door only to be replaced by a raw draft pick who doesn't live up to the last guy.

I wouldn't be surprised, and yes you are right about no real talent improvement since 2011. A major issue to me.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Dang it we are going to end up with another gutter ball at LT.

After the last few years would you be surprised? I feel like no real talent has been added to the position since 2011. We've just been losing guys since. Every year we say that the O-line needs to be addressed, but we watch another proven starter walk out the door only to be replaced by a raw draft pick who doesn't live up to the last guy.

We aren't likely to get a more talented LT than Okung, but if we can find one who can play for 16 games we might have better play overall from LT, and we might even be able to pay less than what we were paying Okung. Doesn't sound like Beachum will be that guy (overpriced maybe and coming back from surgery) but at this point i think dependability needs to be a HUGE consideration in how we address LT.

 

[hawknation2016]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RussellOkung/status/709066895476072448[/tweet]

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Okung's superior dress sense is worthy of an extra million or so on his deal.

 

[Willyeye]

Dang it we are going to end up with another gutter ball at LT.

After the last few years would you be surprised? I feel like no real talent has been added to the position since 2011. We've just been losing guys since. Every year we say that the O-line needs to be addressed, but we watch another proven starter walk out the door only to be replaced by a raw draft pick who doesn't live up to the last guy.

Where did the Hawks get Okung? He was a 1st round draft pick. One fan's "proven starter" is another fan's "replace that loser" JAG. I see the problem not one of letting guys walk...these guys want to get paid more money than they are worth...I see the problem as one of making poor choices in the draft. Our draft picks shouldn't be "raw draft picks". Look at some of their choices: Britt- a 6th round pick at best, and they waste a 2nd round pick on him...Poole- an unproven Lineman on no one's radar, and they waste a 4th round pick on him; he probably would have gone undrafted...the 2013 draft; they knew they'd be needing to refill the O-Line, but with 11 picks, they pick only 2 OL in the 7th round, and they pick Michael in the 2nd round and Chris Harper in the 4th.

Let me ask you this: who trades away their Pro Bowl Center, and then proceeds to draft 3 O-Line guys 2 months later but chooses not to pick a Center with their first OL pick? What's the upside of O-line projects...just when the guy is finally ready, you let him start for one season, just in time for him to become a UFA?

Last year, they made one more traditional pick of Glowinski and he will probably end up being their RG this year. It's almost like they think they have to get all cutesy and draft nothing but project guys for the O-Line. My strategy this year would be to draft 3 REAL Linemen who have 3 or 4 years college experience at their position. They need to fill holes NOW, not in 3 years from now with guys who have almost completed their rookie contracts. If they use the draft like they should, they might get like one starter for 2016 and two starters for 2017.

 

[ivotuk]

Dang it we are going to end up with another gutter ball at LT.

After the last few years would you be surprised? I feel like no real talent has been added to the position since 2011. We've just been losing guys since. Every year we say that the O-line needs to be addressed, but we watch another proven starter walk out the door only to be replaced by a raw draft pick who doesn't live up to the last guy.

Where did the Hawks get Okung? He was a 1st round draft pick. One fan's "proven starter" is another fan's "replace that loser" JAG. I see the problem not one of letting guys walk...these guys want to get paid more money than they are worth...I see the problem as one of making poor choices in the draft. Our draft picks shouldn't be "raw draft picks". Look at some of their choices: Britt- a 6th round pick at best, and they waste a 2nd round pick on him...Poole- an unproven Lineman on no one's radar, and they waste a 4th round pick on him; he probably would have gone undrafted...the 2013 draft; they knew they'd be needing to refill the O-Line, but with 11 picks, they pick only 2 OL in the 7th round, and they pick Michael in the 2nd round and Chris Harper in the 4th.

Let me ask you this: who trades away their Pro Bowl Center, and then proceeds to draft 3 O-Line guys 2 months later but chooses not to pick a Center with their first OL pick? What's the upside of O-line projects...just when the guy is finally ready, you let him start for one season, just in time for him to become a UFA?

Last year, they made one more traditional pick of Glowinski and he will probably end up being their RG this year. It's almost like they think they have to get all cutesy and draft nothing but project guys for the O-Line. My strategy this year would be to draft 3 REAL Linemen who have 3 or 4 years college experience at their position. They need to fill holes NOW, not in 3 years from now with guys who have almost completed their rookie contracts. If they use the draft like they should, they might get like one starter for 2016 and two starters for 2017.

This. For crying out loud! Quit wasting draft picks on projects!!! Draft a guy that has played his position for 3 years! Not a guy that has played RG/LG/C/RT! "Oh we value a player than can play multiple positions!" Yea, and he can play NONE of them well!

Cable tries to divert attention by blaming the college game! Well, quit drafting players that can't do anything well, and draft ones that have played the same position for 3 years!

He overdrafted Britt because there wasn't going to be anybody available to play RT for several rounds. What made him think Britt could?

ENOUGH with the cuteness and trying to prove how smart you are, because you've proven nothing but how you can take a perfectly good draft and screw it up!

 

[Willyeye]

Dang it we are going to end up with another gutter ball at LT.

After the last few years would you be surprised? I feel like no real talent has been added to the position since 2011. We've just been losing guys since. Every year we say that the O-line needs to be addressed, but we watch another proven starter walk out the door only to be replaced by a raw draft pick who doesn't live up to the last guy.

Where did the Hawks get Okung? He was a 1st round draft pick. One fan's "proven starter" is another fan's "replace that loser" JAG. I see the problem not one of letting guys walk...these guys want to get paid more money than they are worth...I see the problem as one of making poor choices in the draft. Our draft picks shouldn't be "raw draft picks". Look at some of their choices: Britt- a 6th round pick at best, and they waste a 2nd round pick on him...Poole- an unproven Lineman on no one's radar, and they waste a 4th round pick on him; he probably would have gone undrafted...the 2013 draft; they knew they'd be needing to refill the O-Line, but with 11 picks, they pick only 2 OL in the 7th round, and they pick Michael in the 2nd round and Chris Harper in the 4th.

Let me ask you this: who trades away their Pro Bowl Center, and then proceeds to draft 3 O-Line guys 2 months later but chooses not to pick a Center with their first OL pick? What's the upside of O-line projects...just when the guy is finally ready, you let him start for one season, just in time for him to become a UFA?

Last year, they made one more traditional pick of Glowinski and he will probably end up being their RG this year. It's almost like they think they have to get all cutesy and draft nothing but project guys for the O-Line. My strategy this year would be to draft 3 REAL Linemen who have 3 or 4 years college experience at their position. They need to fill holes NOW, not in 3 years from now with guys who have almost completed their rookie contracts. If they use the draft like they should, they might get like one starter for 2016 and two starters for 2017.

This. For crying out loud! Quit wasting draft picks on projects!!! Draft a guy that has played his position for 3 years! Not a guy that has played RG/LG/C/RT! "Oh we value a player than can play multiple positions!" Yea, and he can play NONE of them well!

Cable tries to divert attention by blaming the college game! Well, quit drafting players that can't do anything well, and draft ones that have played the same position for 3 years!

He overdrafted Britt because there wasn't going to be anybody available to play RT for several rounds. What made him think Britt could?

ENOUGH with the cuteness and trying to prove how smart you are, because you've proven nothing but how you can take a perfectly good draft and screw it up!

WOW!!! I concur In the last 5 years, how many teams picked traditional O-Line guys in the draft and killed it? Most guys that are on Top 10 O-Lines were traditional picks in the last 5 years. THEY WEREN'T PROJECTS!!!! Talk about STUCK ON STUPID! Every guy that plays on a Top 10 O-Line was at some point one of the guys on college O-Lines that are taught by "incompetent" college coaches. Cable reminds me of one of those people that has a tendency to take his theories to extremes.

 

[McGruff]

Dang it we are going to end up with another gutter ball at LT.

After the last few years would you be surprised? I feel like no real talent has been added to the position since 2011. We've just been losing guys since. Every year we say that the O-line needs to be addressed, but we watch another proven starter walk out the door only to be replaced by a raw draft pick who doesn't live up to the last guy.

Where did the Hawks get Okung? He was a 1st round draft pick. One fan's "proven starter" is another fan's "replace that loser" JAG. I see the problem not one of letting guys walk...these guys want to get paid more money than they are worth...I see the problem as one of making poor choices in the draft. Our draft picks shouldn't be "raw draft picks". Look at some of their choices: Britt- a 6th round pick at best, and they waste a 2nd round pick on him...Poole- an unproven Lineman on no one's radar, and they waste a 4th round pick on him; he probably would have gone undrafted...the 2013 draft; they knew they'd be needing to refill the O-Line, but with 11 picks, they pick only 2 OL in the 7th round, and they pick Michael in the 2nd round and Chris Harper in the 4th.

Let me ask you this: who trades away their Pro Bowl Center, and then proceeds to draft 3 O-Line guys 2 months later but chooses not to pick a Center with their first OL pick? What's the upside of O-line projects...just when the guy is finally ready, you let him start for one season, just in time for him to become a UFA?

Last year, they made one more traditional pick of Glowinski and he will probably end up being their RG this year. It's almost like they think they have to get all cutesy and draft nothing but project guys for the O-Line. My strategy this year would be to draft 3 REAL Linemen who have 3 or 4 years college experience at their position. They need to fill holes NOW, not in 3 years from now with guys who have almost completed their rookie contracts. If they use the draft like they should, they might get like one starter for 2016 and two starters for 2017.

This. For crying out loud! Quit wasting draft picks on projects!!! Draft a guy that has played his position for 3 years! Not a guy that has played RG/LG/C/RT! "Oh we value a player than can play multiple positions!" Yea, and he can play NONE of them well!

Cable tries to divert attention by blaming the college game! Well, quit drafting players that can't do anything well, and draft ones that have played the same position for 3 years!

He overdrafted Britt because there wasn't going to be anybody available to play RT for several rounds. What made him think Britt could?

ENOUGH with the cuteness and trying to prove how smart you are, because you've proven nothing but how you can take a perfectly good draft and screw it up!

Players we've drafted with extensive college experience . . . Okung, Carpenter, Moffit, Britt, Bowie, Garrett Scott, Mark Glowinski, Terry Poole, Ryan Seymour . . . That's a pretty extensive list and a pretty mixed bag of results. Not sure "draft ones that have played the same position for 3 years" is guaranteed to get any better results.

 

[Atradees]

So is he even visiting us? Who the heck is Sheil Kapadia anyway? What is his criteria for us even enduring his presence? Journalism major? WHAT?

 

[mrt144]

WOW!!! I concur In the last 5 years, how many teams picked traditional O-Line guys in the draft and killed it? Most guys that are on Top 10 O-Lines were traditional picks in the last 5 years. THEY WEREN'T PROJECTS!!!! Talk about STUCK ON STUPID! Every guy that plays on a Top 10 O-Line was at some point one of the guys on college O-Lines that are taught by "incompetent" college coaches. Cable reminds me of one of those people that has a tendency to take his theories to extremes.

While true, I believe that the entire reason for projects is to save an assload of money in salary space and rarely give a 2nd contract out if you can help it.

It's not the best process for an objectively good OL, but its a good process for a team that views OL as an unfortunate necessity.

 

[Basis4day]

So is he even visiting us? Who the heck is Sheil Kapadia anyway? What is his criteria for us even enduring his presence? Journalism major? WHAT?

He's ESPN's beatwriter for the Seahawks. You'd think fans would take him more seriously than the omniscient, "Some Dude Pehawk Follows on Twitter".

 

[Willyeye]

WOW!!! I concur In the last 5 years, how many teams picked traditional O-Line guys in the draft and killed it? Most guys that are on Top 10 O-Lines were traditional picks in the last 5 years. THEY WEREN'T PROJECTS!!!! Talk about STUCK ON STUPID! Every guy that plays on a Top 10 O-Line was at some point one of the guys on college O-Lines that are taught by "incompetent" college coaches. Cable reminds me of one of those people that has a tendency to take his theories to extremes.

While true, I believe that the entire reason for projects is to save an assload of money in salary space and rarely give a 2nd contract out if you can help it.

It's not the best process for an objectively good OL, but its a good process for a team that views OL as an unfortunate necessity.

Let's translate your premise into a real-life scenario and see if they save an assload of money...the Hawks draft Poole and Sokoli in 2015...by 2018, they become average OL backups...after one year on the active roster, they leave in FA. Where does this save them any cap space? During the 3 years the Hawks were coaching them up, they have to pay two FA's to man the O-Line while they're waiting, and the O-Line sucks for 3 more seasons. Besides, is it about saving cap space? Or is it about winning the SB?

 

[Willyeye]

So is he even visiting us? Who the heck is Sheil Kapadia anyway? What is his criteria for us even enduring his presence? Journalism major? WHAT?

Dude, Kapadia deserves a lot of respect. He's actually the best Hawks writer that ESPN has ever provided us with. His articles are extremely well-written, and unlike his predecessors, he actually does awesome research. His articles during Wilson's TD streak last season were first-class. The numbers he came up with during Russell's streak made for incredible reading. He wasn't even a Seahawks fan (Eagle fan who covered the Eagles for an online magazine) prior to being hired by ESPN. Before I was aware of this, I assumed he was a huge Seahawks fan, because from reading his articles, you'd think he had been a Hawks fan for decades. You really should check out his archives at ESPN from the last year.

 

[Willyeye]

Where did the Hawks get Okung? He was a 1st round draft pick. One fan's "proven starter" is another fan's "replace that loser" JAG. I see the problem not one of letting guys walk...these guys want to get paid more money than they are worth...I see the problem as one of making poor choices in the draft. Our draft picks shouldn't be "raw draft picks". Look at some of their choices: Britt- a 6th round pick at best, and they waste a 2nd round pick on him...Poole- an unproven Lineman on no one's radar, and they waste a 4th round pick on him; he probably would have gone undrafted...the 2013 draft; they knew they'd be needing to refill the O-Line, but with 11 picks, they pick only 2 OL in the 7th round, and they pick Michael in the 2nd round and Chris Harper in the 4th.

Let me ask you this: who trades away their Pro Bowl Center, and then proceeds to draft 3 O-Line guys 2 months later but chooses not to pick a Center with their first OL pick? What's the upside of O-line projects...just when the guy is finally ready, you let him start for one season, just in time for him to become a UFA?

Last year, they made one more traditional pick of Glowinski and he will probably end up being their RG this year. It's almost like they think they have to get all cutesy and draft nothing but project guys for the O-Line. My strategy this year would be to draft 3 REAL Linemen who have 3 or 4 years college experience at their position. They need to fill holes NOW, not in 3 years from now with guys who have almost completed their rookie contracts. If they use the draft like they should, they might get like one starter for 2016 and two starters for 2017.

This. For crying out loud! Quit wasting draft picks on projects!!! Draft a guy that has played his position for 3 years! Not a guy that has played RG/LG/C/RT! "Oh we value a player than can play multiple positions!" Yea, and he can play NONE of them well!

Cable tries to divert attention by blaming the college game! Well, quit drafting players that can't do anything well, and draft ones that have played the same position for 3 years!

He overdrafted Britt because there wasn't going to be anybody available to play RT for several rounds. What made him think Britt could?

ENOUGH with the cuteness and trying to prove how smart you are, because you've proven nothing but how you can take a perfectly good draft and screw it up!

Players we've drafted with extensive college experience . . . Okung, Carpenter, Moffit, Britt, Bowie, Garrett Scott, Mark Glowinski, Terry Poole, Ryan Seymour . . . That's a pretty extensive list and a pretty mixed bag of results. Not sure "draft ones that have played the same position for 3 years" is guaranteed to get any better results.

What do you call an O-Line 6th round draftee that was drafted in the 2nd round who has two horrible seasons on his resume? Justin Britt, a failed project. What do you call 2 O-Linemen that were drafted in the 7th round in 2013 as nothing but an afterthought? Michael Bowie and Ryan Seymour, both failed projects. What do you call an undrafted O-Lineman who gets drafted in the 4th round? Terry Poole, a failed project. What do you call a guy who used to be on the D-Line but was converted to O-Line in college, and yet sucked for 3 seasons? JR Sweezy, a failed project.

Can't count Scott...couldn't play because of heart issues. Can't count Moffit...never should have been drafted...was destined for failure because of personal issues.

That leaves only 3 guys that were NORMAL draft prospects. Okung had a decent 7 years with the Hawks. Carpenter had an okay 4 years with the Hawks and one great year with the Jets. Glowinski will likely be our starting RG this year, and although it remains to be seen, I have high hopes for this kid.

I mean, honestly...let's not use stupid choices as examples. In 2012, one 7th round pick, Sweezy. In 2013, two 7th round picks, Seymour and Bowie. In 2014, a 6th rounder in the 2nd round, Britt (he was ranked at least #200 in the 2014 draft by every "expert"), and an undrafted guy in the 6th round, Garrett Scott. They invested ZERO draft captal for O-Line in 3 consecutive years. Then in 2015, they pick an undrafted guy in the 4th round, Poole, and another 7th round pick on a conversion project, Sokoli. So in the last 4 years, the only SERIOUS O-Line pick they made was Glowinski, and he will most likely turn out to be the best O-Lineman they've drafted in the last 4 years.

So when people say no more projects, I have to agree with them. This is a special draft for OL guys. The Hawks have to spend the draft capital they've neglected to spend over the last 4 years...Wilson will not make it through another season not ending up on the IR. They need to go into this draft and pick a REAL Tackle at #26...no projects...a guy who's played the position for at least 3 years and has the physical and athletic attributes. Then they should double down and take a REAL Center at 56...no projects...a guy who's played the position for at least 3 years and has the physical and athletic attributes. Then pick a pass-rushing DT at #90...an OLB at #97...then pick a REAL Guard at #124...no projects...a guy who's played the position for at least 3 years and has the physical and athletic attributes. This will leave them with 4 picks to use on positions which they aren't as desperate for...RB, CB, WR, DE.

 

[McGruff]

I thought the point being made by you and others was that "college experience = not a project."

If not, what is the point? That some guys fail and some dont?

 

[Willyeye]

I thought the point being made by you and others was that "college experience = not a project."

If not, what is the point? That some guys fail and some dont?

I see your point. I guess my point could have been articulated more specifically.

I don't want overreaches that become projects...rather than admit a 2nd round pick probably could have been taken in the 6th round, the project becomes turning a 6th round pick into a 2nd rounder. I don't want position switches from RT to LG...bad at RT probably means bad at LG...another problem with the same silly project. Cut your losses...Pete and John don't seem to have a problem getting rid of their mistakes. Only on the O-Line.

I don't want a bunch of 7th round picks...that's not where you find starting O-Linemen. I consider those to be projects...horrible odds for success, usually after wasting roster spots for a couple of years...might as well just get UDFA's for the Practice Squad.

I guess an occasional conversion project is okay...but if "The Sokoli Project" fails to come to fruition, maybe it would be better to re-think this strategy.

And making excuses for these projects by blaming it on college offenses and coaching seems like a reach.

Honestly, I just want to see some more traditional O-Line picks for a change. Glow was a good start. I want to see guys that played only one position in college, not 5...and played that same position for a few years. Guys that played at a decent-sized school. Guys that have a good track record in college. Guys that actually grade out for higher rounds by most experts. Maybe the O-Line isn't the best position group for experiments and/or projects. Other teams' lines don't seem to be doing as badly as the Seahawks O-Lines.

 

[McGruff]

Line play across the league sucks. Really the only way to secure a quality line with any certainty is by investing multiple 1st and 2nd round picks, and even then its a crap shoot these days.

I expect the Hawks to go wholehearted in to drafting OL this year/ But I also think they like what they have in Gilliam. Glowinski and Sokoli, and I expect they are planning on building around those three.

 

[Basis4day]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/709852079091806209[/tweet]