US Mens Soccer

[Sgt. Largent]

This is a nation with the most youth players in the world. Follow me? Something better change quick because there's no excuse and it's ridiculous simple as that. Also Arians sucks dick like a professional whore.

To me this is at the crux of what happened under Arena, he decided right away to lean on his over the hill experienced players like Altidore, Dempsey, Bradley, Howard, Wondo, Beasley, Jones, Beckerman, Gonzales, etc............instead of having the balls to go with the youth movement that even if we didn't qualify (which we didn't anyway) would help mature and propel the national quad into the next WC cycle.

I'm not on suicide watch over this result like most. Yes it's horrible, yes it should never happen to a nation that invests this much money and resources into it's national program. But the warning signs were all there YEARS ago under Klinsmann.........this squad was OLD, and not enough was being done to bring along and develop the next wave of players.

That's on Gulati, that's on Klinsmann, and that's on Arena and the entire hierarchy of US Soccer Federation.

 

[Uncle Si]

What about making it easier for the DAs, especially those run by MLS clubs, to sell young players abroad?

And on another note, here are two quotes from Bruce Arena last night that absolutely show he has no place in the USMNT or USSF going forward. "There is nothing wrong with what we're doing." and "Nothing needs to change."

Arena was always a desperation band aid. He was never a long term solution.

The DAs can't sell kids until they are 18 (when they sign their first professional contract). What most clubs do is move them to wherever they are headed next and put in a clause that will allow the origin club to recoup money based on the player's next transfer or first long term contract.

 

[Uncle Si]

This is a nation with the most youth players in the world. Follow me? Something better change quick because there's no excuse and it's ridiculous simple as that. Also Arians sucks dick like a professional whore.

To me this is at the crux of what happened under Arena, he decided right away to lean on his over the hill experienced players like Altidore, Dempsey, Bradley, Howard, Wondo, Beasley, Jones, Beckerman, Gonzales, etc............instead of having the balls to go with the youth movement that even if we didn't qualify (which we didn't anyway) would help mature and propel the national quad into the next WC cycle.

I'm not on suicide watch over this result like most. Yes it's horrible, yes it should never happen to a nation that invests this much money and resources into it's national program. But the warning signs were all there YEARS ago under Klinsmann.........this squad was OLD, and not enough was being done to bring along and develop the next wave of players.

That's on Gulati, that's on Klinsmann, and that's on Arena and the entire hierarchy of US Soccer Federation.

It's hard to blame Arenas here. He was tasked with the very specific job of getting the team to the World Cup. While we can argue that leaning on aging stars in a mediocre league was the wrong choice, the crux of the issue which Klinsmann himself identified years ago is that the development and outlet for the nation's young players is limited by the balancing act the USSF plays with the MLS.

Klinsmann may not have been the best touchline manager, but he had a very good plan for moving the program forward. He challenged USSF and the MLS to realize the issues he saw coming and take on the plans to remedy them. It was forward thinking, ambitious, creative and... in the end... probably correct.

Instead, he was let go, the USSF hired Arenas, who then picked a bunch of older mediocre players from a pile of mediocre players (and two special ones) and they were exposed.

I'm not losing my mind over this. I obviously wanted them to qualify. I also hoped that Arenas would submit a resignation today either way so the program, free of the concerns over qualification, could move forward in the way Klinsmann saw. Hoping the results finally spur that along anyways.

It will be interesting to see if the USSF is more like the FA or more like the Germans and Spanish in the next 6 months.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm not losing my mind over this. I obviously wanted them to qualify. I also hoped that Arenas would submit a resignation today either way so the program, free of the concerns over qualification, could move forward in the way Klinsmann saw. Hoping the results finally spur that along anyways.

My guess is Gulati is forced out first, then the search will begin for the next manager.

No way in hell either stays, or at least they shouldn't. This is Gulati's failure first, he should be the first to go.

The question is do we replace Arena quickly? Or wait until after the WC so we can go after a higher profile more successful manager? That usually means someone who's in the middle of managing another country in the WC.

 

[SeatownJay]

Gulati won't be forced out but his spot is up for election in February.

 

[Uncle Si]

I'm not losing my mind over this. I obviously wanted them to qualify. I also hoped that Arenas would submit a resignation today either way so the program, free of the concerns over qualification, could move forward in the way Klinsmann saw. Hoping the results finally spur that along anyways.

My guess is Gulati is forced out first, then the search will begin for the next manager.

No way in hell either stays, or at least they shouldn't. This is Gulati's failure first, he should be the first to go.

The question is do we replace Arena quickly? Or wait until after the WC so we can go after a higher profile more successful manager? That usually means someone who's in the middle of managing another country in the WC.

Arenas will be the first to go, and there should be no hurry to replace him. However, what should take place is an overhaul at the younger age groups. Start promoting top, young American coaches (Caleb Porter) and move them into positions of greater influence.

Gulati should not be re-elected. He never had a suitable vision for long term success of American soccer. he was simply protecting the basic status quo to allow the MLS brand to grow under the auspice that those players would always be better than the likes of Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm not losing my mind over this. I obviously wanted them to qualify. I also hoped that Arenas would submit a resignation today either way so the program, free of the concerns over qualification, could move forward in the way Klinsmann saw. Hoping the results finally spur that along anyways.

My guess is Gulati is forced out first, then the search will begin for the next manager.

No way in hell either stays, or at least they shouldn't. This is Gulati's failure first, he should be the first to go.

The question is do we replace Arena quickly? Or wait until after the WC so we can go after a higher profile more successful manager? That usually means someone who's in the middle of managing another country in the WC.

Arenas will be the first to go, and there should be no hurry to replace him. However, what should take place is an overhaul at the younger age groups. Start promoting top, young American coaches (Caleb Porter) and move them into positions of greater influence.

Gulati should not be re-elected. He never had a suitable vision for long term success of American soccer. he was simply protecting the basic status quo to allow the MLS brand to grow under the auspice that those players would always be better than the likes of Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama.

That's the irony of what's gone on with MLS, it's empowered and helped every other CONCACAF nation compete, except for the US. It's helped level the playing field by using our pro league to develop much poorer soccer nation's players.

 

[SeatownJay]

The DAs can't sell kids until they are 18 (when they sign their first professional contract). What most clubs do is move them to wherever they are headed next and put in a clause that will allow the origin club to recoup money based on the player's next transfer or first long term contract.

In regards to this, I was referring to the solidarity payments that FIFA allows and regulates but USSF and MLS don't honor. I remember there was a big stink raised when Yedlin was sold by Seattle to Tottenham where MLS didn't want to share the money they received with Crossfire and Northwest Nationals.

 

[Uncle Si]

Did it though? Did it develop them right up to the same level of mediocrity that the US assumed was enough to get them an easy pass to the World Cup? I'd suggest that the mediocrity of the MLS has leveled the playing field, in the opposite direction.

But to demonstrate further:

Hexagonal teams by place
Mexico: 25 players (2 in the MLS, 11 playing with a team in a top tier of European soccer, rest in Mexico)
Panama: 22 players (6 in the MLS)
Costa Rica: 24 players (7 in the MLS, 6 playing in a top European league)
Honduras: 28 players (4 in the MLS, all but 4 more playing in the Honduran league)

and.. the US: 22 players... all but 7 playing in the MLS.

The MLS did work hard to level the playing field. Unfortunately, not in the way you are inferring.

 

[Uncle Si]

The DAs can't sell kids until they are 18 (when they sign their first professional contract). What most clubs do is move them to wherever they are headed next and put in a clause that will allow the origin club to recoup money based on the player's next transfer or first long term contract.

In regards to this, I was referring to the solidarity payments that FIFA allows and regulates but USSF and MLS don't honor. I remember there was a big stink raised when Yedlin was sold by Seattle to Tottenham where MLS didn't want to share the money they received with Crossfire and Northwest Nationals.

I see... that I am not sure of to be honest. I imagine it has something to do with the way MLS pools all their money.

Does seem counterproductive, however. DAs like the ones in the midwest (Gallagher) are producing pro level players. What is their motivation to promote them to an MLS reserve team

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Surprised no one's mentioned the unfairness that we had to play two countries in one match, Trinidad AND Tobago!

 

[Uncle Si]

Surprised no one's mentioned the unfairness that we had to play two countries in one match, Trinidad AND Tobago!

Those jammy bastages. I knew there was something amiss. Also.. did you see the ridiculous goal scored against Mexico AND the goal that wasn’t by Panama? Conspiracies on a regional scale. Also:

http://the18.com/soccer-news/jurgen...ocial&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=article

 

[hawkfan68]

This is an older article but it seems that there is a challenger to Gulati for next election as USSF president. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nger-in-2018-election/?utm_term=.5f302542e43b

Not sure about Steve Gans taking over.

I know that it's a non-paying role but why is it so hard to get a Soccer Executive (someone with deep experience in Soccer) to take over. That's probably what needs to happen.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Surprised no one's mentioned the unfairness that we had to play two countries in one match, Trinidad AND Tobago!

Those jammy bastages. I knew there was something amiss. Also.. did you see the ridiculous goal scored against Mexico AND the goal that wasn’t by Panama? Conspiracies on a regional scale. Also:

http://the18.com/soccer-news/jurgen...ocial&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=article

I get the criticism, I always have. Jurgen is right.

But if you're an American player going from Euro club to Euro club fighting for minutes and even bench time in your late 20's and early to mid 30's..............why? Why do that when you can come home, get a fat paycheck cashing in on your USMNT notoriety in your home country (or close in Canada) where you can play another 4-5 years raising your family in a stable familiar environment?

AND you can help grow your home country's league. From a competitive aspect, Jurgen and other critics are absolutely right, these players should play in Europe as long as they can at the highest competitive level. But that's not life, these players have a small window to not only make as much money as they can, but they have families to think of.

 

[Uncle Si]

Sure. But which of the players that you describe in that scenario were on the squad? I’m talking about young players, not Dempsey or Howard.

Yedlin has taken the plunge. Bradley gave up. Altidire have up. Guys like Nagbe never took it on. There are many more who are late in on careers that were never adequately challenged. It’s a shame. And this is the consequence

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Sure. But which of the players that you describe in that scenario were on the squad? I’m talking about young players, not Dempsey or Howard.

Yedlin has taken the plunge. Bradley gave up. Altidire have up. Guys like Nagbe never took it on. There are many more who are late in on careers that were never adequately challenged. It’s a shame. And this is the consequence

It's not all on the player, I think the Timbers have now rejected 2 or 3 transfer offers for Nagbe? Was suppose to go to Celtic last year.

btw, Cameron, Wood, Bedoya, Johnson, Brooks, etc Have these guys exponentially benefited from playing in 1st and 2nd tier leagues overseas?

Idk, they've looked pretty crappy in USMNT matches in the last 12 months.

Anyway, while I agree, I'm not going to hyper fixate on ALL of our players MUST play overseas, or MOST. It's far more a talent/development issue for me than where these guys play.

We have to stop being a soft suburban rich kids pay to play development country and figure out how to get the best athletes from all walks of life and income level playing soccer like the soccer power countries do.

 

[SeatownJay]

Speaking of players going to Europe, there is some thought that, without this World Cup to showcase his skills, Jordan Morris may not get any serious offers from European clubs. He'll be 28 when the 2022 World Cup is played and by then he'll be considered too old to attract much interest. Morris may now spend his entire career in MLS, which is a shame.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Speaking of players going to Europe, there is some thought that, without this World Cup to showcase his skills, Jordan Morris may not get any serious offers from European clubs. He'll be 28 when the 2022 World Cup is played and by then he'll be considered too old to attract much interest. Morris may now spend his entire career in MLS, which is a shame.

Morris is the offensive equivalent of Yedlin, as long as he has world class pace, someone overseas will covet him.

It'll just be a question of who, and whether that makes sense for him.

As much as I'd love to see Morris stay, he needs to leave if he wants to get better and become a bigger factor in whatever direction the next manager of the USMNT wants to go.

Guarantee you whoever the next manager is, he's going to clean house and go with a youth movement.

 

[Uncle Si]

Sure. But which of the players that you describe in that scenario were on the squad? I’m talking about young players, not Dempsey or Howard.

Yedlin has taken the plunge. Bradley gave up. Altidire have up. Guys like Nagbe never took it on. There are many more who are late in on careers that were never adequately challenged. It’s a shame. And this is the consequence

It's not all on the player, I think the Timbers have now rejected 2 or 3 transfer offers for Nagbe? Was suppose to go to Celtic last year.

btw, Cameron, Wood, Bedoya, Johnson, Brooks, etc Have these guys exponentially benefited from playing in 1st and 2nd tier leagues overseas?

Idk, they've looked pretty crappy in USMNT matches in the last 12 months.

Anyway, while I agree, I'm not going to hyper fixate on ALL of our players MUST play overseas, or MOST. It's far more a talent/development issue for me than where these guys play.

We have to stop being a soft suburban rich kids pay to play development country and figure out how to get the best athletes from all walks of life and income level playing soccer like the soccer power countries do.

Cameron and Wood have certainly. Wood may be set for a transfer to a bigger club in Europe. And to suggest that it would every time simply ignores how difficult it is. Atleast they tried.

The contentment of the MLS and USSF is what’s at discussion. While no one said ALL young players should go overseas the very good prospects should not only be looking but also be encouraged to by the national organization. Look how well the production line of the MLS did this cycle?

Pulisic is not some phenom to a nation of 300 million. There are plenty like him in Europe and plenty more with the same ambitions here in the US.

 

[sdog1981]

Well I guess the USA and Holland can have there own World Cup and mope about being losers.