What happened to 'In Pete We Trust'?

[Seahawk Sailor]

We are all armchair GMs. If any of us were really smart, we would be in a front office.

Some people tend to forget that.

I don't think any of us here are on the level of our front office. Pete and John have shown they're either a) Nostradamus-like geniuses, b) willing to gamble and move on if necessary, or c) somewhere in between with all of their moves. They have a pretty good dang solid record in spite of some of the blunders and gaffes they've made.

I do, however, think that a few of us could do better than at least some of the front offices out there. Looking at you this week, Minnesota! 8)

 

[Smoke]

I think in the case of this year too many people are looking at the Spencer Ware and not Nick Reed (vs Michael Bennett)

Some of the dudes that got snatched off our cut list on wavers have planned out to be kinda OK once or twice.

Pope was a crappier version of Rawls. I'm bummed me missed out, but our RB Stable is mighty.

 

[Largent80]

Great pitchers and hitters go into slumps. But they also pitch great games, smack home runs and steal bases.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I never felt better about a trade than when we traded for Deion Branch......I listened to folks like Tom Jackson boast for weeks on end, about how good his fellow Louisville alumni was, but discounted the system he played in.....I was wrong as was the Seahawks front office years ago.

It's now a new regime and more success and damn right I'm entitled, confident, have tons of swagger and when I wear my Seahawks gear at the gym or wherever I go, it's the simple stares, some smiles, an occasional "Go Hawks", etc....

The bottom line is we are one of the 3-4 best teams in the league and each of these 3-4 teams have bigger gaps that just cannot be fixed in my opinion....Seattle's can be fixed and has a ton of youth that will learn on the job, while winning games.

To show how good this front office is, they fix their mistakes....yes they could have drafted Bitonio a couple of years ago, but they didn't force the issue and rebounded with Glowinski as a 4th.....they also positioned themselves at RG/RT with Ifedi and didn't draft players like Kansas State's Cody Whitehair, who went in the 2nd round to the Bears.....he performed so well this pre-season, the Bears immediately signed ex Packer guard, Josh Sitton for 3 years and 21M, to replace a 2nd round pick, after 4 to 5 months and 3-4 preseason games....I'm guilty of believing the hype and was on board with Whitehair to replace Britt and re-signing Patrick Lewis.

We are on the way to greatness and no one and I truly mean no one wants to play Seattle, especially a Seattle that is not playing as the favorite for the first time in the last 3 years. Carolina, Green Bay and new flavor of the week, Arizona are the top 3 popular media darlings.....The media doesn't like our offensive line, despite the improvement, they still don't respect our WR's and I'm still hearing about Marshawn Lynch not being here, as if he played all 16 games last year and rushed for 1500 yards and 15 TD's.....

The overhaul after cutdown day, was enormously successful.....we shed practically all the dead weight, strengthened our coverage for special teams and have youthful size in case older DT's like Mc Daniel and Rubin slow down. By not relying on Jordan Hill, they showed a lot of skill, IMO......

 

[SeaChase]

I'm more concerned with having a bunch of rookies on the team. Last I saw was about 12. If a Vet goes down will they be able to be the "next man up". That went well when Kam was holding out.

 

[Fade]

No offense to the OP. I am generalizing.

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I despise this mentality, just wanting to be served up kool-aid :179422: , and essentially insulating themselves in a false reality.

It is supposed to be about in-depth perspectives, learning new info, finding reason, giving my own opinion every once in a while, humor, you know... discussion.

.NET is great, but this "----- We Trust", and its similar ilk are counter productive, and it actually perturbs discussion.

Frankly, having to explain this is ridiculous.

"Hey Gize.... Gize! Stahp dikussing thngz! Therz no need. --> In Pete We Trust." -The best posters on this site do not post crap like this, because it brings nothing to the table.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

We're still around, - just don't post as often. Like Paul Allen, we just let PC/JS run things, sit back and enjoy the ride.

Not to say there is anything wrong with debate and the opinions on here but only to say that I still have that mentality and it makes me less prone to posting these days.

 

[RichNhansom]

What exactly would people who disagree with some of the choices for the roster feel entitled to? That claim doesn't even make sense in the context of this discussion.

Have to agree with Rob12. It's not the disagreeing with some of the decisions that is entitled, it's the way some go about it.

I love discussion about the choices our FO makes. Kearly does a fantastic job of breaking down a decision from his perspective whether he agrees with the decision or not. It becomes entitled when you start berating the FO.

This is pretty normal for a team with extended success. Maybe because we all know it can't last forever so we project failure before it actually happens but no matter how you break it down it still looks like an entitled fan when they cast off all the success and choose to nit pick any decision they don't agree with.

By all means please discuss but you may want to keep in mind some of the good decisions or how well the FO has corrected the bad ones. Frustration is normal but by some posters here you would think we will be picking 1st in next years draft.

 

[McGruff]

I don't have a problem at all with questioning individual assumptions. Without that, this forum would be nothing but a bunch of back slapping cheerleaders, and that would be boring.

What I do struggle with is that idea that if Pete and John make a decision that I don't agree with, then it must be because they have changed philosophies or lost it or become morons . . . Almost overnight! I'm more inclined to think they have largely the same philosophy, and just had some more information that indicated player A fit better than player B in their overall philosophy.

I also have come to realize two things about this regime.

1. Player acquisition and retention is more complex than we realize, and especially at the bottom of the roster different criteria come into play and are weighted differently. Special teams play, character, team fit, scheme fit and unique skill set are all part of the equation. Applying those factors may be a little different in Each situation and we don't get to know how that works.

2. The philosophy does change over time, but as fans we are only able to see it in hindsight. Early on Pete and John wouldn't take character risks because they didn't have the locker room leadership to handle it. Now they do. Early on they took athletes with little regard to intanglibles. Now grit is a definING characteristic. But even those things cannot be dogmatic ally held to. They may change, and my job as a fan is two fold. First, roll with the changes and second, to read the tea leaves to see if there is something we can figure out.

BLind trust is bad, but so is blindly trusting your own perspective. I find it far more interesting to try and figure out why people do what they do, than it is to either blindly endorse or blindly condemn.

 

[OkieHawk]

I don't have a problem at all with questioning individual assumptions. Without that, this forum would be nothing but a bunch of back slapping cheerleaders, and that would be boring.

What I do struggle with is that idea that if Pete and John make a decision that I don't agree with, then it must be because they have changed philosophies or lost it or become morons . . . Almost overnight! I'm more inclined to think they have largely the same philosophy, and just had some more information that indicated player A fit better than player B in their overall philosophy.

Thanks McGruff, this sums up my feelings on the FO. They have more information at their disposal on the players than we ever will. People think that with Twitter and various analysis sites that they have "the scoop", when in reality if that isn't coupled with a working knowledge of the players themselves it amounts to nada.

But, people should still discuss things like this, because it is a football forum. If nothing else it gives us all a different perspective from other posters.

 

[RichNhansom]

BLind trust is bad, but so is blindly trusting your own perspective. I find it far more interesting to try and figure out why people do what they do, than it is to either blindly endorse or blindly condemn.

I liked your whole post but the part above is an excellent statement. Especially the bolded.

 

[Largent80]

Pointing out what you perceive to be people's knee jerk reactions and their own feelings isn't the greatest message to say about yourself or the other person.

All that does is make the other person angry, embarrassed, and in general a bad feeling. Disagreeing is one thing, poining out your perceptions is another.

 

[scutterhawk]

Everyone seems upset that we cut an UNDRAFTED ROOKIE running back and a short nickel corner and are acting like the sky is falling. I still have faith that even if Pope becomes great, this move won't hurt us in the long run. Yes, Pete and John make mistakes, but not often enough for me to worry.

So, hmm, You've never really been impressed with a player, just to see Pete let him hit the bricks?
That's not questioning Pete & John's acumen at finding really good talent, but it is a fact that they have and do make some mistakes.
I think it's normal to question some moves that are made, because when a lot of us believe that a player has passed the eye test, put up the numbers that rival or even surpass players that are still on the roster.
Undrafted Pope had as good or better stats in 2016 Pre-Season play, than Undrafted Rawls had in 2015 Pre-Season.
Pope actually kept churning his legs and moved the pile (like a mini-Lynch), but he wasn't retained because he wasn't an actual Draft pick?

 

[bmorepunk]

Some people have really binary opinions about things, and that response can be emotional.

There are many people here that get too positive or negative, and they can be really defensive if you remark on them being extreme. A lot of you guys love Pope and think it's a huge mistake to let him go. A lot of you guys thought Percy Harvin was an awesome thing and that didn't end up well though the damage was reasonably low. Even last year at this time there was a lot of unhappy discussion involving Turbin and Michael going out the door.

The discussions about the players and team are awesome, it just gets weird and over the top sometimes. I am very interested in it, but I have basically given up on having opinions on player acquisitions until they've played because I thought there were stupid trades/draft picks in the past and I was just wrong. I don't blindly think that Carroll and Schneider are going to make decisions right, but I have no real idea what's going on in the building or their offices.

It's not "In Pete We Trust". It's "In Pete We Get What We Get".

 

[TwistedHusky]

So what is the value of a message board? Why do you take time out of your day or even make it a part of the day?

1 - Community

2 - Catharsis

3 - Perspective

4 - Insight

5 - Connection

(Now I'm going to leave aside argument that because the coaching staff has more information that automatically makes it more reasonable that their evaluation is going to be more effective. Because that assumption is flat out wrong. There is a point, especially when you evaluating multiple factors, where the attempt to evaluate too many factors leads you to incorrect directions.)

Ultimately, since we are not given a check as GM when you complain you get catharsis, but you also get feedback or insight from others that helps you understand the perspectives you are missing. Now some I disagree with, but some even when I disagree, I learn something and apply that to my revised outlook.

I know Kearly and Tical talked me off of the ledge a bit last year, even though last year ended up turning out to be like I feared (though had no idea Rawls would be such a force).

So there is a value in pointing out the issues, both in getting them addressed, creating discussion, and removing the frustration.

I am going to admit, I looked forward to final roster day like a kid that was waiting weeks for Christmas. Not because I wanted Pope or some other guy, but because that roster represents the team I will be rooting for this year. Then we get the roster and it is like getting socks & underwear - not the bike you wanted.

If someone wants to trust Pete because he made some good choices in the past, good on them. On the other hand, if others are worried/concerned that recent choices might have set up back a little farther - not sure how that is not a valid opinion too?

 

[OkieHawk]

If someone wants to trust Pete because he made some good choices in the past, good on them. On the other hand, if others are worried/concerned that recent choices might have set up back a little farther - not sure how that is not a valid opinion too?

Both are valid opinions, and as I stated earlier part of a message board is to get numerous perspectives. As someone also stated earlier if we all had the same views this place would be boring. The important thing to remember is to discuss the differences respectfully.

 

[vin.couve12]

Not football, not the Seahawks, nor Pete Carroll are religions.

People get all kinds of weird about this stuff....

 

[McGruff]

Undrafted Pope had as good or better stats in 2016 Pre-Season play, than Undrafted Rawls had in 2015 Pre-Season.
Pope actually kept churning his legs and moved the pile (like a mini-Lynch), but he wasn't retained because he wasn't an actual Draft pick?

The Seahawks cut 2 other draft picks and kept 7 UDFA's so I doubt his draft status had any thing to do with it.

 

[Sports Hernia]

This forum is for opinions, right, wrong, or indifferent. We can agree and disagree as long as we do it in a respectful manner.
Nobody is perfect, not Pete, not John, or any poster here. While I believe Pete and John are the best in the NFL, it doesn't mean they don't strike out chasing a curve ball in the dirt once in awhile.

Thank most of you for not playing the "Super fan" card. There is nothing wrong with respectfully agreeing to disagree and leaving it there.

 

[TwistedHusky]

The fact that they kept UDFAs does not mean that Pope's status vs a drafted pick was not an issue.

Were the UDFAs competing with a recent draft pick?

If so, were those draft picks falling into the category before preseason where members of the FO either took a personal interest in the pick or actively pushed awareness of the pick post-pick? (anotherwords they were emotionally vested in the pick?)

Just looking at the raw #s does not tell you that and having UDFAs on the roster does not either, we lost some guys that we took several years to evaluate which left some holes. Additionally we had some big losses we had to fill due to weaknesses and due to personnel losses.

It stands to reason if an UDFA was available to at least fill the gap, and they had a roster spot for him - they will bring him on.

That has nothing to do with a system whereby multiple people are evaluated, all selected at different levels and then told to compete for an open slot. The issue is whether the one with the best results get selected or the one with the highest draft slot gets advantages.

It should also be pointed out that 'doing well in college' should be significantly underweighted to doing well vs pros. The best college team is not going to be better than a 3rd string team of almost any NFL team. And considering many colleges put as much of the Sisters of the Poor teams as they can muster on their schedule, you really only get 6-8 solid games by which to evaluate a player vs good competition. So the idea that guys picked in the 4th round or 3rd round should be automatically credited vs someone not picked is folly, half of what you do in college is inflated or isn't a good indicator of how you would do vs nfl talent.