Where are the pass rushers?

[Sgt. Largent]

Never the less, this is the point in free agency where new teams aren't all of a sudden going to jump into the mix and pay him more. Caps are set, most first wave FA's are signed, it is what it is for him. Not sure what waiting is accomplishing.

I am pretty sure that he is thinking that if he can wait out the virus and he can get physicals by teams to assuage their fears, so he can get his long awaited payday.

Exactly! Looking at it from his point of view, it’s probably the smartest way to go. There’s really no rush to sign. I’m sure his agent, Bus Cook, is advising him to refrain.

Could also horribly backfire on Clowney by waiting because the 2-3 most interested teams like the Hawks are going to pull their offers entirely and move on.

And that's IF Clowney passes team physicals with flying colors, which for 2-3 months after a major core surgery and rehab? Hard for me to believe he's fully recovered and able to pass another team's physical fully.

 

[Hendo66]

How did Seattle not go get this guy for the cost? Although not exactly a pass rusher he had 6 sacks and 9 pass break ups and strong against the run. Would have more than made up for Q leaving. Damn!

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... year-deal/

 

[Seafan]

Good thing the season doesn't start tomorrow, right.

No one knows when it will start.

 

[sdog1981]

Just in case some people did not get the memo.

Quarter Backs and Pass Rushers are the most sought after positions at every level of organized football.

2013 was magic purely on the fact that the Seahawks got Bennett (who the Seahawks cut in 2009) and Cliff Avril in March 2013 in the same off-season.

 

[AgentDib]

They were good additions to the DL rotation but that is a bit too strong. We can argue causation all day but it was a lot easier to get QB hits and sacks when we had one of the best secondaries in NFL history and Mebane/Red Bryant were shutting down the opposing running game on first and second down.

 

[Largent80]

Where are they?

On every team but ours.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Never the less, this is the point in free agency where new teams aren't all of a sudden going to jump into the mix and pay him more. Caps are set, most first wave FA's are signed, it is what it is for him. Not sure what waiting is accomplishing.

I am pretty sure that he is thinking that if he can wait out the virus and he can get physicals by teams to assuage their fears, so he can get his long awaited payday.

Exactly! Looking at it from his point of view, it’s probably the smartest way to go. There’s really no rush to sign. I’m sure his agent, Bus Cook, is advising him to refrain.

Could also horribly backfire on Clowney by waiting because the 2-3 most interested teams like the Hawks are going to pull their offers entirely and move on.

And that's IF Clowney passes team physicals with flying colors, which for 2-3 months after a major core surgery and rehab? Hard for me to believe he's fully recovered and able to pass another team's physical fully.

IF the Seahawks have a good relationship with Clowney, who has expressed a desire to stay in Seattle, then he will give them the opportunity to match anything he gets offered.

Free agency can be a fine and healthy thing if the relationships remain positive.

Most of the guys we've lost, apart from a couple notable exceptions, praise the organisation and would come back given the opportunity. Kudos to JS on that, because it's easy to take it personally on either side.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I am pretty sure that he is thinking that if he can wait out the virus and he can get physicals by teams to assuage their fears, so he can get his long awaited payday.

Exactly! Looking at it from his point of view, it’s probably the smartest way to go. There’s really no rush to sign. I’m sure his agent, Bus Cook, is advising him to refrain.

Could also horribly backfire on Clowney by waiting because the 2-3 most interested teams like the Hawks are going to pull their offers entirely and move on.

And that's IF Clowney passes team physicals with flying colors, which for 2-3 months after a major core surgery and rehab? Hard for me to believe he's fully recovered and able to pass another team's physical fully.

IF the Seahawks have a good relationship with Clowney, who has expressed a desire to stay in Seattle, then he will give them the opportunity to match anything he gets offered.

Free agency can be a fine and healthy thing if the relationships remain positive.

Most of the guys we've lost, apart from a couple notable exceptions, praise the organisation and would come back given the opportunity. Kudos to JS on that, because it's easy to take it personally on either side.

I don't care how good the relationship is, I guarantee you Pete and John have a timeline deadline of when they need to know if Clowney's signing here. Because if not, they have to go to plan B to bring in more DE help.

So if Clowney thinks he can just wait this out until the summer to see if the virus dies down allowing him to visit more teams to hopefully get more teams involved in the bidding war? Then he might find that tactic backfired if doesn't happen and the Hawks moved on to other players.

 

[kf3339]

Exactly! Looking at it from his point of view, it’s probably the smartest way to go. There’s really no rush to sign. I’m sure his agent, Bus Cook, is advising him to refrain.

Could also horribly backfire on Clowney by waiting because the 2-3 most interested teams like the Hawks are going to pull their offers entirely and move on.

And that's IF Clowney passes team physicals with flying colors, which for 2-3 months after a major core surgery and rehab? Hard for me to believe he's fully recovered and able to pass another team's physical fully.

IF the Seahawks have a good relationship with Clowney, who has expressed a desire to stay in Seattle, then he will give them the opportunity to match anything he gets offered.

Free agency can be a fine and healthy thing if the relationships remain positive.

Most of the guys we've lost, apart from a couple notable exceptions, praise the organisation and would come back given the opportunity. Kudos to JS on that, because it's easy to take it personally on either side.

I don't care how good the relationship is, I guarantee you Pete and John have a timeline deadline of when they need to know if Clowney's signing here. Because if not, they have to go to plan B to bring in more DE help.

So if Clowney thinks he can just wait this out until the summer to see if the virus dies down allowing him to visit more teams to hopefully get more teams involved in the bidding war? Then he might find that tactic backfired if doesn't happen and the Hawks moved on to other players.

^This.

The draft is his deadline whether he likes it, or not.

PC and JS are not leaving that draft with these DE issues not fixed. Whether it is with FA signings available, trades or draft picks this issue is getting resolved. I agree he is playing a very bad hand if he thinks otherwise. In fact, I personally would rather they move on at this point. He hasn't shown me that he truly cares about playing for our team. All the grandstanding is just talk. I knew when he stated his goal was to reset the market that this could turn ugly.

Who knows what our offer is, but he doesn't like it. That only means even if he did sign what type of attitude would he bring back to the team?

This should have been solved one way or the other by now. That he is still a FA says a lot about the leagues opinion of him. He may not like it, but that's his issue. Not the teams.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

This should have been solved one way or the other by now. That he is still a FA says a lot about the leagues opinion of him. He may not like it, but that's his issue. Not the teams.

The other issue is Clowney is now considering taking one year deals.

Doesn't seem like a big deal, but for a team like the Hawks that is pressed for cap with still more roster spots to fill and the draft, it could be a sticking point.

One year deal means every penny of the salary is counted against the cap, as opposed to a multi-year deal where we can defer bonus and guaranteed money.

So I guarantee you if Clowney and his agent have changed their tune and are seriously considering one year deals, that could affect our ability to sign him. 18M ALL against the cap is much more difficult vs. 2-3 year deal.

 

[Osprey]

The other issue is Clowney is now considering taking one year deals.

Doesn't seem like a big deal, but for a team like the Hawks that is pressed for cap with still more roster spots to fill and the draft, it could be a sticking point.

One year deal means every penny of the salary is counted against the cap, as opposed to a multi-year deal where we can defer bonus and guaranteed money.

So I guarantee you if Clowney and his agent have changed their tune and are seriously considering one year deals, that could affect our ability to sign him. 18M ALL against the cap is much more difficult vs. 2-3 year deal.

What are the rules around cap hits if you give him a 2yr deal with a player opt out for the 2nd? Does that allow you to spread the hit?

 

[kf3339]

The other issue is Clowney is now considering taking one year deals.

Doesn't seem like a big deal, but for a team like the Hawks that is pressed for cap with still more roster spots to fill and the draft, it could be a sticking point.

One year deal means every penny of the salary is counted against the cap, as opposed to a multi-year deal where we can defer bonus and guaranteed money.

So I guarantee you if Clowney and his agent have changed their tune and are seriously considering one year deals, that could affect our ability to sign him. 18M ALL against the cap is much more difficult vs. 2-3 year deal.

What are the rules around cap hits if you give him a 2yr deal with a player opt out for the 2nd? Does that allow you to spread the hit?

 

[kf3339]

The other issue is Clowney is now considering taking one year deals.

Doesn't seem like a big deal, but for a team like the Hawks that is pressed for cap with still more roster spots to fill and the draft, it could be a sticking point.

One year deal means every penny of the salary is counted against the cap, as opposed to a multi-year deal where we can defer bonus and guaranteed money.

So I guarantee you if Clowney and his agent have changed their tune and are seriously considering one year deals, that could affect our ability to sign him. 18M ALL against the cap is much more difficult vs. 2-3 year deal.

What are the rules around cap hits if you give him a 2yr deal with a player opt out for the 2nd? Does that allow you to spread the hit?

I'm pretty sure you can do a two year deal under that condition, but why would the Hawks go for it? I would pass.

I would do a three year deal with a third year opt out for either side. Structure the deal so most if not all of the guaranteed money is in the first two years. He would only be 29, and still could go for a third major contract.

A one year deal would cost too much against our cap, and a two year deal with an opt out after the first year only benefits him. Why would we be that stupid?

 

[Osprey]

A one year deal would cost too much against our cap, and a two year deal with an opt out after the first year only benefits him. Why would we be that stupid?

What you’re willing to pay him is what you’re willing to pay him. How you allocate it against the cap is an entirely different issue.

Smart teams don’t spend more than their established value just because you have cap space.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The other issue is Clowney is now considering taking one year deals.

Doesn't seem like a big deal, but for a team like the Hawks that is pressed for cap with still more roster spots to fill and the draft, it could be a sticking point.

One year deal means every penny of the salary is counted against the cap, as opposed to a multi-year deal where we can defer bonus and guaranteed money.

So I guarantee you if Clowney and his agent have changed their tune and are seriously considering one year deals, that could affect our ability to sign him. 18M ALL against the cap is much more difficult vs. 2-3 year deal.

What are the rules around cap hits if you give him a 2yr deal with a player opt out for the 2nd? Does that allow you to spread the hit?

I have no idea what detriment to the cap would be if we deferred bonus and salary to year two or three for Clowney and he has an opt out.

My guess is it'd work like it does for players opting out in year four or five, their new team would assume that cap rollover hit.

I've honestly never seen an opt out for a 2-3 year short deal. Why would the team do that? I understand why the player would, but not the team side, especially if they have to still take a dead cap hit.

 

[kf3339]

A one year deal would cost too much against our cap, and a two year deal with an opt out after the first year only benefits him. Why would we be that stupid?

What you’re willing to pay him is what you’re willing to pay him. How you allocate it against the cap is an entirely different issue.

Smart teams don’t spend more than their established value just because you have cap space.

A one year deal goes against your cap for that year. Our current available is about $11M (not including draft pick costs) unless we do some cuts or restructures. You don't do that to bring in a one year rental, and that is what he would be at this point. That is why I stated he would cost too much.

A two year deal with an opt out costs us dead money the second year if he leaves. That means he is still basically a one year rental.

Either solution is not smart for our needs. My point was the only possible choice is a three year deal as I laid out. You didn't include that unlikely option. I personally don't give a damn if he stays, or not at this point. I was only pointing out that a two year deal under the terms that you asked about isn't a realistic option IMO.

 

[kf3339]

The other issue is Clowney is now considering taking one year deals.

Doesn't seem like a big deal, but for a team like the Hawks that is pressed for cap with still more roster spots to fill and the draft, it could be a sticking point.

One year deal means every penny of the salary is counted against the cap, as opposed to a multi-year deal where we can defer bonus and guaranteed money.

So I guarantee you if Clowney and his agent have changed their tune and are seriously considering one year deals, that could affect our ability to sign him. 18M ALL against the cap is much more difficult vs. 2-3 year deal.

What are the rules around cap hits if you give him a 2yr deal with a player opt out for the 2nd? Does that allow you to spread the hit?

I have no idea what detriment to the cap would be if we deferred bonus and salary to year two or three for Clowney and he has an opt out.

My guess is it'd work like it does for players opting out in year four or five, their new team would assume that cap rollover hit.

I've honestly never seen an opt out for a 2-3 year short deal. Why would the team do that? I understand why the player would, but not the team side, especially if they have to still take a dead cap hit.

No team would do that for a two year deal. Maybe a 3 year, but probably unlikely. I personally would rather they go in a different direction now and go after other options via FA or trade. It feels like paralysis by analysis with JS and PC right now. I'm just not sure what their issue is at this point.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It's not only strange how long it is taking to get this Clowney thing done, but the league in general hasn't done much of anything the last few days. Shoot, Griffen is still available and you're hearing next to nothing. He's clearly still a damn good player. Not being able to meet in person etc. is really impacting this FA period. Though plenty of guys have already signed.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The other issue is Clowney is now considering taking one year deals.

Doesn't seem like a big deal, but for a team like the Hawks that is pressed for cap with still more roster spots to fill and the draft, it could be a sticking point.

One year deal means every penny of the salary is counted against the cap, as opposed to a multi-year deal where we can defer bonus and guaranteed money.

So I guarantee you if Clowney and his agent have changed their tune and are seriously considering one year deals, that could affect our ability to sign him. 18M ALL against the cap is much more difficult vs. 2-3 year deal.

What are the rules around cap hits if you give him a 2yr deal with a player opt out for the 2nd? Does that allow you to spread the hit?

I have no idea what detriment to the cap would be if we deferred bonus and salary to year two or three for Clowney and he has an opt out.

My guess is it'd work like it does for players opting out in year four or five, their new team would assume that cap rollover hit.

I've honestly never seen an opt out for a 2-3 year short deal. Why would the team do that? I understand why the player would, but not the team side, especially if they have to still take a dead cap hit.

No team would do that for a two year deal. Maybe a 3 year, but probably unlikely. I personally would rather they go in a different direction now and go after other options via FA or trade. It feels like paralysis by analysis with JS and PC right now. I'm just not sure what their issue is at this point.

I don't think they have an issue.

I think they have a timeline of addressing one more major D-line signing before the draft. So my guess is that's the deadline for Clowney to accept our offer or not. If not we'll probably see Wolfe or Griffen signed, or a trade.

Bottom line, this is a terrible DE draft, so Pete and John know they can't rely on the draft to get a difference making DE. Has to happen during the next 3-4 weeks.

 

[kf3339]

It's not only strange how long it is taking to get this Clowney thing done, but the league in general hasn't done much of anything the last few days. Shoot, Griffen is still available and you're hearing next to nothing. He's clearly still a damn good player. Not being able to meet in person etc. is really impacting this FA period. Though plenty of guys have already signed.

The whole process with the Covid thing is very weird right now, but some teams are still making moves and signing some guys. Who knows.