Who has the better WR corps?

[Sgt. Largent]

So DThomas is a better WR than Baldwin because he's faster? And that speed has more impact on the defenses? Or is it he runs better routes? Makes smoother cuts? Tap dances on the sidelines better?

He's bigger, faster, stronger and has better stats. What else is there? Smarter? Alright, I'll give Doug that one.

And yet, Doug makes the plays when it matters. Doug had over 200 total yards against the 49ers in one of the biggest games in Seahawk history. He made the 3rd down catch against the Saints.


Give me a break, who the hell was Demaryius Thomas before Peyton got there. People are blinded by stats and physical attributes. What matters is making the plays when there is no tomorrow. There is none better at that than the Seahawks receivers. No remotely comes close. Look through the last two seasons, and look at all the catches Baldwin has made while keeping his feet inbounds. I've never seen any player do it with such consistency. All the catches Tate and Kearse and Rice have made. They always get it done. Put our WRs in Denver's offense and I guarantee they are even better.

You guys can't casually throw away stats, it IS how we measure players.

The bottom line is if you'd rather have Baldwin on our team than a guy like Thomas, then you are the texbook definition of a homer.........cause you are the MINORITY, the VAST minority. Like I said if you're going to disregard stats and performance and just go with crap like "but Doug makes plays when it matters" (like DThomas doesn't?) then I can't debate this any longer.

Like I said put both those dudes up for every team in the league to choose from, and 32 out of 32 would choose Thomas. /discussion.

 

[themunn]

I like how we're debating whether or not the receiver that was number 4 on the depth chart entering the season is better than Denver's number 1.

The real question should be would you rather Welker or Baldwin? (Baldwin, though I might change my opinion on Sunday... will Welker choke in a THIRD successive superbowl?)
Rice or Thomas? (Thomas)
Decker or Tate (Tate)
Miller or Thomas (dead tie IMO, Miller was putting up 800 yards a year as a Raider, who knows what he could do in a pass heavy system with a good QB)
Harvin or....

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

What Largent said. Thread.

 

[Omaha]

There needs to be a limit on fanboism. Its quite amusing (and insulting to DT) that Baldwin is being compared to DT.

Here is a 3rd party ranking: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... -receivers

Tier #1: Well-rounded playmakers (1. Calvin Johnson, 2. Larry Fitzgerald, 3. A.J. Green, 4. Julio Jones, 5. Dez Bryant, 6. Brandon Marshall, 7. Demaryius Thomas)

Tier #2: Go-to receivers (8. Percy Harvin, 9. Andre Johnson, 10. Vincent Jackson, 11. Steve Smith, 12. Roddy White, 13. Reggie Wayne, 14. Hakeem Nicks)

Tier #3: Not quite true No. 1s (15. Jordy Nelson, 16. Mike Wallace, 17. Dwayne Bowe, 18. Victor Cruz, 19. Randall Cobb, 20. Marques Colston, 21. Greg Jennings)

Tier #4: Prove it (22. Torrey Smith, 23. Cecil Shorts, 24. Pierre Garcon, 25. Jeremy Maclin, 26. Antonio Brown, 27. Eric Decker, 28. Steve Johnson, 29. Wes Welker, 30. Miles Austin, 31. DeSean Jackson)

Tier #5: Trick or treat (32. Sidney Rice, 33. Kenny Britt, 34. Danny Amendola, 35. Mike Williams, 36. James Jones, 37. Denarius Moore, 38. Josh Gordon, 39. Anquan Boldin, 40. Danario Alexander)

The only Seahawk's receiver that can be compared to DT is Percy (and I dont think there is a clear winner of that comparison unless their is a specific context)

Note all 3 Broncos WR are on that list, while only Percy and Rice are on the list for the seahawks

 

[RolandDeschain]

Omaha, you should extrapolate out Golden Tate's numbers, including yards after the catch, to what they would be if he was targeted as much as Demaryius Thomas.

You might (will) be surprised. We simply are a run-first, run-often team that doesn't pass much.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

Omaha, you should extrapolate out Golden Tate's numbers, including yards after the catch, to what they would be if he was targeted as much as Demaryius Thomas.

You might (will) be surprised. We simply are a run-first, run-often team that doesn't pass much.

For the love of little baby jesus why does everyone use that argument? Stats never have and never will work like that. You could just as easily say what if defenses actually focused on stopping the pass? (Which they don't ). The offense runs all game to set up those few deep balls. Our offense is designed to give our wrs good averages, our offense is designed to catch the opposing secondary off guard. Our wrs have great catch % cause rw doesn't force the ball, if anything he's too careful.

Please tell me why I'm wrong without blue and green glasses on.

 

[Omaha]

Omaha, you should extrapolate out Golden Tate's numbers, including yards after the catch, to what they would be if he was targeted as much as Demaryius Thomas.

You might (will) be surprised. We simply are a run-first, run-often team that doesn't pass much.

Extrapolate his numbers - are you kidding me? So I can extrapolate the number of rushing attempts and conclude that both Moreno and Montee are better than Beast Mode?

Yes seahawks are a run first team, but have you considered that your team relies so much on the run because of the quality of WRs available. That if you had better WRs you would throw it more?

Have you considered that tate and baldwin are not targeted more often because they are not good enough to get open more often. Beastmode often sees 8-9 man boxes (OT: a testament to his quality as a RB. Given the average blocking he seems to get from the O-line, he is probably second only to AP at running between the tackles imo) which means your WRs are typically seeing 1v1 coverage and yet RW has so many throw aways or needs so much time to see an open man.

DT is 2x Pro Bowler and was Second-team All-Pro, both evidence of his quality at his position. Which credible opinion or evidence do you have to support your argument for the quality of Tate or Baldwin? Neither Baldwin nor Tate are in the same tier as DT and only a fan of the former could think otherwise.

Going into 2014, DT is arguably a top 5 receiver in the NFL and he will always draw top coverage against any defense (everyone is talking DT v sherman but no one is saying Baldwin/Tate v DRC). On the other hand I cant even think of a team on which Tate or Baldwin would be the #1 WR - definitely not the broncos (they wouldnt even be starters).

 

[RolandDeschain]

I love how "stats don't work like that" - so you're saying Demaryius Thomas would have the same numbers with HALF as many targets from his quarterback?

Haha. What a joke. Overestimate numbers on paper while ignoring how many times our guys are targeted at your own peril. You won't be back Sunday night, regardless.

Hey, guess who had a better DVOA rating than Demaryius Thomas, and a better catch percentage? Doug Baldwin. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

(Pssst, this is the part where you denounce DVOA as a piece of crap stat and make excuses to justify the catch percentage difference; don't forget to play your role as a mindless Broncos homer to perfection.)

Also, Golden Tate had a higher catch percentage than Demaryius Thomas, too.

For the record, I think Demaryius Thomas is a great receiver. Probably top 5. My point here is you, like most, underestimate some of our receivers because they are not spoken about and don't get anywhere near the targets that receivers on most other teams do.

 

[MileHighFish]

I love how "stats don't work like that" - so you're saying Demaryius Thomas would have the same numbers with HALF as many targets from his quarterback?

Haha. What a joke. Overestimate numbers on paper while ignoring how many times our guys are targeted at your own peril. You won't be back Sunday night, regardless.

Hey, guess who had a better DVOA rating than Demaryius Thomas, and a better catch percentage? Doug Baldwin. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

(Pssst, this is the part where you denounce DVOA as a piece of crap stat and make excuses to justify the catch percentage difference; don't forget to play your role as a mindless Broncos homer to perfection.)

Also, Golden Tate had a higher catch percentage than Demaryius Thomas, too.

For the record, I think Demaryius Thomas is a great receiver. Probably top 5. My point here is you, like most, underestimate some of our receivers because they are not spoken about and don't get anywhere near the targets that receivers on most other teams do.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

La la la la la I'm right your wrong, your points don't matter. I can do that too. ..

It's OK if you don't agree, but every point I made was logical and nothing close to an excuse. You think rw isn't careful with the ball? You don't think sea offense is designed for big plays? What's your problem. ..

I'm a seahawk fan, I've read this board for years lol. Just earlier this season it was a fairly popular opinion our wrs couldn't get separation. And God forbid we get out scored this weekend (which I highly highly doubt ) it will be people just like you who are begging for new wrs and changing your tune in a new York minute.

 

[Carmon1274]

If Baldwin and Tate are as good as many hawk fans say they are

then they should get paid


9-10mill a year

:roll:


But hey IMO I think Baldwin is all-right, and I think Tate is a keeper which would get paid 8mill-9mill a year.

 

[RolandDeschain]

It's true, our wide receivers generally can't get separation. Ranking so highly in DVOA without getting separation is impressive. Not to mention their ability to make clutch catches (Baldwin) and have great yards after the catch ability. (Tate.)

@Carmon, how are you not banned for being a 49er troll yet? Seriously.

 

[Carmon1274]

How come you're not banned

 

[RolandDeschain]

How come you're not banned

I do sexual favors for RockHawk, site owner extraordinaire.

 

[Carmon1274]

How come you're not banned

I do sexual favors for RockHawk, site owner extraordinaire.

Good to know.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

Dvoa and projected stats... I got it dude. Nothing else matters.

But you're right about one thing, anyone saying Tate is worth 9 Mill must be trolling.

 

[BamKam]

Lol now this is some serious reaching.

 

[Carmon1274]

Dvoa and projected stats... I got it dude. Nothing else matters.

But you're right about one thing, anyone saying Tate is worth 9 Mill must be trolling.

You don't think Tate deserves more money than Pierre Garcson?

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

Dvoa and projected stats... I got it dude. Nothing else matters.

But you're right about one thing, anyone saying Tate is worth 9 Mill must be trolling.

You don't think Tate deserves more money than Pierre Garcson?

If the seahawks paid tate 7 mill a year I would intentionally crap my pants assuming I was just in a bad dream.

I'm actually a Tate fan too.

 

[MagicHef]

If Montee Ball had as many carries as Marshawn Lynch, he would have had over 1400 yards, good for second in the league. He must be really great.

Or, basing things entirely on per target/per carry numbers is silly.