Why did John and Pete finally change their draft strategy to back to 2010/12?

[Go12's]

I find it interesting that all of the sudden this year John and Pete seemed to go back to drafting more known commodities (similar to what they did in their first years with the team) and especially drafting them in what was projected the correct rounds in the draft. I know I wasn't alone in thinking the past 5+ years during each draft why this player and why so early? Also not to get too cute and trade further down to miss out on players projected to be better.

Either they did some retrospective inner thinking as to their perplexing draft strategy the past number of years, or just maybe someone on the ownership team stepped in to give their two cents.

I think most of us on this board like this draft better then any other the past eight years or so purely from a need/value perspective.

Was Scot McCloughan back in the War Room as a consultant for this year's draft? He was the genius behind most of those great picks in the 2012 draft and this years draft has his fingerprints all over it to me. If not it was a mysterious turnaround by Schneider & Carroll. I'm very happy with the potential of this years picks. Great job by whoever was responsible for the apparent change in philosophy.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Was Scot McCloughan back in the War Room as a consultant for this year's draft? He was the genius behind most of those great picks in the 2012 draft and this years draft has his fingerprints all over it to me. If not it was a mysterious turnaround by Schneider & Carroll. I'm very happy with the potential of this years picks. Great job by whoever was responsible for the apparent change in philosophy.

The Scot angle is really, really overblown. He didn't have unilateral control of the draft room like some people seem to think.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Nice to have a top 10 pick and three in the first 41, rather than one in the first 60 somewhere around like 27th. Easier to get better players when you actually put yourself in a position to draft them.

People like to ignore this simple fact, as well.

They had multiple times more drafting power and pick value in 2022 than they have in previous years. This kinda makes a big difference.

 

[KinesProf]

When you address your number one need with the 9th overall pick you don't end up chasing or taking the remainders at a position of need (Collier, Ifedi) , and everything else better falls in to place.

Though you can argue with positional value, the further we go along it looks like Brooks and Penny were good evaluations talent -wise.

 

[rcaido]

Jody is draftwhisper!

I don't know what JA did or didn't say to them but this draft was worlds away better than anything for years. Regardless of the "reason" for this change, Jody should be a fixture in our draft room moving forward. With Paul selecting Hutch, I think ownership has bolstered our drafts on more than one occasion. I have not been a fan of the trading down & away from talent tactics of the past.

Paul did not want Hutch, he wanted a WR i think Santana Moss. Holgrem talked about it on the radio that the owner wanted the WR and you cant go against what the owner wants. He was ecstatic that the Jets picked Moss.

 

[sdog1981]

The Scot angle is really, really overblown. He didn't have unilateral control of the draft room like some people seem to think.

Also, he was god awful after he left the Hawks. He needed John and Pete just as much as they needed him.

 

[Go12's]

Also, he was god awful after he left the Hawks. He needed John and Pete just as much as they needed him.

I'm sure alcoholism played a role in that but he still had some good drafts with the Redskins and Cleveland too.

"Shortly after leaving the 49ers, McCloughan was hired by Seattle Seahawks general manager and close friend, John Schneider, to be a senior personnel executive on the team.[11] McCloughan accepted, and later assisted with the team's drafting of notable players in later rounds of the draft such as Russell Wilson, K. J. Wright, Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman and Byron Maxwell.[2] He also had success in earlier rounds helping to draft players such as Earl Thomas, Russell Okung, Golden Tate, Bruce Irvin and Bobby Wagner in either the first or second round. McCloughan remained in this position until April 2014, when he again resigned due to personal issues.[1][12] After he left the Seahawks, McCloughan started up his own college scouting agency in Ferndale, Washington, where he evaluated incoming draftees for a handful of NFL teams.[1]

In January 2015, McCloughan was hired as general manager of the Washington Redskins.[13] Despite helping build to the team to two straight winning seasons since his hiring, McCloughan was fired by the team in March 2017, again allegedly due to his issues with alcoholism.[14] Following his departure from the team, McCloughan returned to running his scouting agency.[15] He also worked as a consultant for the Cleveland Browns during the 2018 NFL Draft, as well as for the Philadelphia Eagles from 2017 to 2019.[16][17]" From his Wiki

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

PC/JS just had the best draft position they’ve had in whole own tenure. My math on average in just their first 5 picks was about 15 positions better than 2012 and 10 positions better than 2010. When you are able to draft within the top ten in each round it’s crazy how much more control of your board you have and how much more quality you’re are able to add as opposed to drafting in the bottom of the round. The majority of their most productive picks have been when they’ve had top half draft position in a round or when they traded up to grab a prospect. That is why it felt similar to 2010 and 2012 drafts. Premium draft position just gave them the opportunity let the draft come to them and not force things or get too cute.

 

[sdog1981]

I'm sure alcoholism played a role in that but he still had some good drafts with the Redskins and Cleveland too.

This really is the biggest what-if.

 

[sc85sis]

The Scot angle is really, really overblown. He didn't have unilateral control of the draft room like some people seem to think.

People also forget we got a number of players those first few years that Pete had recruited and/or coached against when he was at USC. He said then that that advantage would fade.

 

[OrangeGravy]

With #3 at the helm, we were locked into a "win now" mode, so we kept throwing band-aids on things while the team kept getting older. Also, we were always picking at the bottom of every round, so getting blue chip athletes to break the log jams at receiver, CB, RB, OL, etc weren't coming, so we kind of just languished. This draft was particularly deep in OL talent, so it may be they saw the opportunity to unload Russ, reset the OL, and start again with a young team and lots of cap room.

I agree. I think they leaned too heavily into drafting for need vs bpa the last 5/6 years. They're free'd up now to lean bpa with need accounted for. It's simply the difference between win now and roster building. Throw in poor draft position due to consistently winning and you get what we got

 

[Appyhawk]

I read draft ranking this morning and had trouble finding any draft class ranked lower than ours. So I ranked the draft class rankers daft.
To simplify, we drafted this class the same way we drafted pre-2012. We didn't have Russ then and we don't have Russ now. That is the shortest distance between two dots on the board from then to now.

 

[Go12's]

People also forget we got a number of players those first few years that Pete had recruited and/or coached against when he was at USC. He said then that that advantage would fade.

100% agree that Pete still being fresh from the college ranks helped his first couple of drafts. He went after players like Sherman that he had tried and failed to recruit to USC.

 

[GemCity]

I agree. I think they leaned too heavily into drafting for need vs bpa the last 5/6 years. They're free'd up now to lean bpa with need accounted for. It's simply the difference between win now and roster building. Throw in poor draft position due to consistently winning and you get what we got

This 100%.

 

[MesquiteHawk]

PC/JS just had the best draft position they’ve had in whole own tenure. My math on average in just their first 5 picks was about 15 positions better than 2012 and 10 positions better than 2010. When you are able to draft within the top ten in each round it’s crazy how much more control of your board you have and how much more quality you’re are able to add as opposed to drafting in the bottom of the round. The majority of their most productive picks have been when they’ve had top half draft position in a round or when they traded up to grab a prospect. That is why it felt similar to 2010 and 2012 drafts. Premium draft position just gave them the opportunity let the draft come to them and not force things or get too cute.

So picking lower in each round caused them to skip better players that were available? Is this new math?

 

[Maelstrom787]

So picking lower in each round caused them to skip better players that were available? Is this new math?

With premium picks, you can afford to draft for need without it being far off of taking the BPAs. That's the whole point.

Do you think they reach on Collier if picking at 9 instead of 29 that year? Of course not.

I'm not defending the process behind that pick, but having higher selections definitely does free up the draft philosophy considerably. Not as beholden to drafting players before the spot falls off of a talent cliff.

 

[sc85sis]

100% agree that Pete still being fresh from the college ranks helped his first couple of drafts. He went after players like Sherman that he had tried and failed to recruit to USC.

Yep. And he’d told Sherm back in HS that he could play corner in the NFL, but Richard preferred WR back then.

We also got Tate from Pete’s knowledge of facing him when SC played Notre Dame. Pete was the one who wanted Marshawn and bugged the heck out of John to make that trade. Walter Thurmond was another guy Pete had recruited. Anthony McCoy, Malcolm Smith, Mike Williams, Mike Morgan, Allen Bradford and some practice squad guys all played for Pete. Browner and Irvin were others he’d recruited. And I may be forgetting someone.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Because the goal is no longer to be one of the dominant teams in the league.
It is to look like we are moving in the right direction.

Established/known commodities with less upside but higher floors help lower the risk of falling further, and they help you fill gaps with guys you can reasonably expect success with.

We are no longer a top team. But we still want to be competitive.

(Also, the guy responsible for a many of our draft successes in that first 4-5 years is no longer here. We tried that strategy without him for years. It didn't work. It looks like we finally figured it out.)

 

[Jac]

I'm sure alcoholism played a role in that but he still had some good drafts with the Redskins and Cleveland too.

"Shortly after leaving the 49ers, McCloughan was hired by Seattle Seahawks general manager and close friend, John Schneider, to be a senior personnel executive on the team.[11] McCloughan accepted, and later assisted with the team's drafting of notable players in later rounds of the draft such as Russell Wilson, K. J. Wright, Kam Chancellor, Richard Sherman and Byron Maxwell.[2] He also had success in earlier rounds helping to draft players such as Earl Thomas, Russell Okung, Golden Tate, Bruce Irvin and Bobby Wagner in either the first or second round. McCloughan remained in this position until April 2014, when he again resigned due to personal issues.[1][12] After he left the Seahawks, McCloughan started up his own college scouting agency in Ferndale, Washington, where he evaluated incoming draftees for a handful of NFL teams.[1]

In January 2015, McCloughan was hired as general manager of the Washington Redskins.[13] Despite helping build to the team to two straight winning seasons since his hiring, McCloughan was fired by the team in March 2017, again allegedly due to his issues with alcoholism.[14] Following his departure from the team, McCloughan returned to running his scouting agency.[15] He also worked as a consultant for the Cleveland Browns during the 2018 NFL Draft, as well as for the Philadelphia Eagles from 2017 to 2019.[16][17]" From his Wiki

I live in the DC area (moved from the PNW). There is a whole lot more to this story. Scott McCloughan had achieved cult status because the team was FINALLY having success and doing it with really smart drafts and player personnel decisions (i.e., it was sustainable). The rumor was that Bruce Allen couldn't deal with not being the center of attention and the one getting all the credit for their newfound success. And it wasn't a secret.

"Last week, former Washington tight end Chris Cooley, who works for the team and for a Dan Snyder-owned radio station, questioned on the air whether General Manager Scot McCloughan has been drinking. The team declined to comment.

But declining to comment doesn’t make a story go away, and a column today in the Washington Post suggests that the team’s silence speaks volumes. Columnist Jerry Brewer suggests that Cooley’s speculation about McCloughan’s drinking may have been planted by the team in an effort to reduce McCloughan’s popularity."

After Cooley questioned McCloughan's drinking, team's silence speaks volumes

Last week, former Washington tight end Chris Cooley, who works for the team and for a Dan Snyder-owned radio station, questioned on the air whether General Manager Scot McCloughan has been drinking.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[Jac]

I live in the DC area (moved from the PNW). There is a whole lot more to this story. Scott McCloughan had achieved cult status because the team was FINALLY having success and doing it with really smart drafts and player personnel decisions (i.e., it was sustainable). The rumor was that Bruce Allen couldn't deal with not being the center of attention and the one getting all the credit for their newfound success. And it wasn't a secret.

"Last week, former Washington tight end Chris Cooley, who works for the team and for a Dan Snyder-owned radio station, questioned on the air whether General Manager Scot McCloughan has been drinking. The team declined to comment.

But declining to comment doesn’t make a story go away, and a column today in the Washington Post suggests that the team’s silence speaks volumes. Columnist Jerry Brewer suggests that Cooley’s speculation about McCloughan’s drinking may have been planted by the team in an effort to reduce McCloughan’s popularity."

After Cooley questioned McCloughan's drinking, team's silence speaks volumes

Last week, former Washington tight end Chris Cooley, who works for the team and for a Dan Snyder-owned radio station, questioned on the air whether General Manager Scot McCloughan has been drinking.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

I should have mentioned that at this point, everybody knows that Washington ownership and management are liars and cheats (among other things) so it's not hard to imagine a "molehill turned into a mountain" situation.