Would you trade Pete Carroll for Sean McVay?

[Flyingsquad23]

Making a joke about a domestic terrorist who killed 15 people is fun now Zchurch? Is he a personal hero?

 

[Spin Doctor]

So you guys want the guy that game planned his way to 3 points in the SB.

3

Lulz

Well, that same coach beat Seattle twice this season, and won against Carroll with a QB that had a broken thumb in the playoffs. He also has had more than one playoff win in 4 years. Oh, did I mention his QB had some severe limitations that were exposed?

 

[Maelstrom787]

This board would be 1000% done with McVay after they collapsed in the Super Bowl and have had little success since. Just calling it like I see it.

There are valid criticisms of Pete, but there's some serious grass-is-always-greener mentality going on here.

The constant decade-long success that everyone is pining for simply does not exist in the NFL. It's a fairy tale. It's like the LOB, its lightning in a bottle. It's hard to capture it twice.

 

[OrangeGravy]

This board would be 1000% done with McVay after they collapsed in the Super Bowl and have had little success since. Just calling it like I see it.

There are valid criticisms of Pete, but there's some serious grass-is-always-greener mentality going on here.

The constant decade-long success that everyone is pining for simply does not exist in the NFL. It's a fairy tale. It's like the LOB, its lightning in a bottle. It's hard to capture it twice.

I've always thought it odd as well. It's almost as if people don't actually pay attention to the results of games and seasons and just rely on what announcers and pundits tell them to shape their opinions about who's good and who isn't. The Rams have our number to a degree throughout 2 different regimes. The 9ers absolutely own the Rams. We generally take care of the 49ers. Such is the circle of life and sports.

 

[Spin Doctor]

This board would be 1000% done with McVay after they collapsed in the Super Bowl and have had little success since. Just calling it like I see it.

There are valid criticisms of Pete, but there's some serious grass-is-always-greener mentality going on here.

The constant decade-long success that everyone is pining for simply does not exist in the NFL. It's a fairy tale. It's like the LOB, its lightning in a bottle. It's hard to capture it twice.

McVay has also been saddled with a QB that quite frankly is extremely limited, and folds under any pressure. Think the trade for Stafford came out of nowhere? Imagine how far McVay could go with a QB like Russell Wilson?

You know who really has had limited success since his last Super Bowl? Pete Carroll.

 

[Maelstrom787]

This board would be 1000% done with McVay after they collapsed in the Super Bowl and have had little success since. Just calling it like I see it.

There are valid criticisms of Pete, but there's some serious grass-is-always-greener mentality going on here.

The constant decade-long success that everyone is pining for simply does not exist in the NFL. It's a fairy tale. It's like the LOB, its lightning in a bottle. It's hard to capture it twice.

McVay has also been saddled with a QB that quite frankly is extremely limited, and folds under any pressure. Think the trade for Stafford came out of nowhere? Imagine how far McVay could go with a QB like Russell Wilson?

You know who really has had limited success since his last Super Bowl? Pete Carroll.

I'm not talking about Goff or Stafford. I'm talking about McVay.

The Rams made the decision to draft him. After that, McVay/FO made the decision to stick with him and even retain him at a ridiculous salary. They've now had to trade relatively premium assets simply to rid themselves of most of the contract. Seriously, "saddled with" Goff? They're the ones who inked the dude to a massive contract. Don't act like they were powerless to Goff and stuck with him.

This board would have their heads on fire over McVay after a historically bad SB performance, then missing the playoffs entirely, and getting bounced this year.

Is McVay a good coach? Yes.

Would McVay have equal or better postseason success with the Seahawks roster than Carroll has over the past 3 years? I'd say maybe 60-70% chance, yeah. Not a slam dunk by any means.

Would this board be calling for his firing after a hilarious Super Bowl performance, followed by missing the playoffs, coupled with trading away all draft assets and offering a bad quarterback the second worst contract in the league behind Wentz? You bet your ass most of us would be, fair or not.

My point is that even great coaches would fail to meet the absolutely ridiculous standards this board has developed due to the success that Pete, John, and Russ have SPOILED the fanbase rotten with for nearly a decade.

 

[AgentDib]

There's a lot of truth to the idea that other head coaches would get a similar amount of flack here. Do you know which teams have won the Super Bowl lately? Teams with QBs on rookie contracts, and teams with Tom Brady.

As high as everybody is on Andy Reid, he had Patrick Mahomes under contract for a measly $5 million cap hit this season and couldn't get it done. Surely that's an enormous advantage squandered according to the posters who have that mindset.

Shanahan and McVay are both still chasing their first ring with three Super Bowl losses between them, including Shanahan's offense melting down in the 4th quarter two different times.

LaFleur has two 13-3 seasons and two NFC championship game losses... with Aaron Rodgers as his QB.

We even have somebody in this thread listing Arians as the best coach in the NFL. He had mixed success with Arizona and then went 7-9 with the Bucs last season. They weren't even particularly great in the regular season this year, but Tom Brady is good at winning playoff games so now recency bias favors Arians.

This effect may have less to do with fans getting spoiled then it does with them wanting to support Russ. The one thing that is similar between the GB situation and ours was that fans were invested in Aaron Rodgers being the best QB and needed to find explanations for why he hadn't won a Super Bowl since 2010. It feels better as a fan to blame a lack of weapons and poor coaching then it does to acknowledge that once a star QB is paid top dollar then there isn't much room for positive value at the QB position.

 

[TwistedHusky]

There is only one SuperBowl. But there are plenty of other playoff games.

Most of the other teams with great or top-tier QBs have at least won a division playoff game.

We haven't since our SB loss.

Wilson can't even compete for a SB or attempt to get the chance to fight for it, if his HC puts gameplans in place that result in us being down multiple TDs at the half of any divisional playoff game.

Say what you will but McVay has actually won a divisional playoff game since our SB loss. Carroll hasn't. And Carroll had the better QB and a team that most would consider close to the same overall roster strength.

If the only thing that matters is winning SBs, then sure. Few approaches will be successful because there is only 1 winner. But if the goal is being a consistent threat and winner in the playoffs? Then plenty of other coaches are successful and Carroll is an abject failure since his SB loss.

I don't think any rational intelligent football fan would ever choose today's Pete Carroll over today's Sean McVay.

 

[Spin Doctor]

This board would be 1000% done with McVay after they collapsed in the Super Bowl and have had little success since. Just calling it like I see it.

There are valid criticisms of Pete, but there's some serious grass-is-always-greener mentality going on here.

The constant decade-long success that everyone is pining for simply does not exist in the NFL. It's a fairy tale. It's like the LOB, its lightning in a bottle. It's hard to capture it twice.

McVay has also been saddled with a QB that quite frankly is extremely limited, and folds under any pressure. Think the trade for Stafford came out of nowhere? Imagine how far McVay could go with a QB like Russell Wilson?

You know who really has had limited success since his last Super Bowl? Pete Carroll.

I'm not talking about Goff or Stafford. I'm talking about McVay.

The Rams made the decision to draft him. After that, McVay/FO made the decision to stick with him and even retain him at a ridiculous salary. They've now had to trade relatively premium assets simply to rid themselves of most of the contract. Seriously, "saddled with" Goff? They're the ones who inked the dude to a massive contract. Don't act like they were powerless to Goff and stuck with him.

This board would have their heads on fire over McVay after a historically bad SB performance, then missing the playoffs entirely, and getting bounced this year.

Is McVay a good coach? Yes.

Would McVay have equal or better postseason success with the Seahawks roster than Carroll has over the past 3 years? I'd say maybe 60-70% chance, yeah. Not a slam dunk by any means.

Would this board be calling for his firing after a hilarious Super Bowl performance, followed by missing the playoffs, coupled with trading away all draft assets and offering a bad quarterback the second worst contract in the league behind Wentz? You bet your ass most of us would be, fair or not.

My point is that even great coaches would fail to meet the absolutely ridiculous standards this board has developed due to the success that Pete, John, and Russ have SPOILED the fanbase rotten with for nearly a decade.

McVay doesn't make the FO decisions in the Rams organization, so yes I would way he was saddled with him. McVay also has more than one win in the playoffs in four years. I'm 100 percent sure that if you give him Lockett, and Metcalf that he at least wins more than one playoff game in four years.

 

[Welshers]

Remind me everyone saying yes, which one of those two coaches won the Super Bowl and which ones team scored only 3 points in the sb

 

[Fade]

Remind me everyone saying yes, which one of those two coaches won the Super Bowl and which ones team scored only 3 points in the sb

Remind me which one has Wilson and which one had Goff?

What is the Seahawks record over the last 3 seasons if Goff is the QB instead of Wilson?
McVay wins playoff games and goes to a Superbowl with Goff. Pete would be playing for the #1 pick if Goff was his QB.

McVay's coaching staff gets promoted and takes bigger jobs. Pete's staff hopes to remain employed.

Pete is currently #3 in the Division. If he fixes some things, and Shanny has another losing season I'd be willing to bump Pete up to #2.

McVay is top ranked because of his ability to fix things. His defense had a down season? He fixes it, hires a new DC, they become the #1 Defense in the NFL. The O-Line has a single down year? He fixes it, and they go back to being top 5. Jared Goff isn't getting it done? He trades him, and gets a new QB. He also is right there with Belichick when it comes to gameplanning, clock management, and the tough decisions that need to be made on game days, that Pete stumbles around on, calling unnecessary timeouts, and taking delay of game penalties.

Shanny is a brilliant playcaller. Probably the best, but right now I question his ability to run a team. At times Saleh felt like the head coach. All the young coaches in the league are coming from the Shanny tree, though. Shanny needs a QB and those questions would go away I suppose. Shanny is also doing it with sub-optimal QB play.

Pete seemingly has the same problems every off-season and they never get fixed. Just keep doing the same things, believe in the philosophy. Hiring Shane Waldron can at least give hope that maybe this time it will be different.

 

[Mase]

-- Feel free to speak for yourself, and not for ALL Seahawk fans. When the vaunted McVay can score more than 3 points in a Super Bowl, call me. He can't even spell defense, and that is the one element that has made the Rams a contender each of the last few years.

-- I will not pretend to be Carroll's biggest fan, as there are definitely things I would do differently, and my positional priorities would be slightly different. But this leg humping on McVay is just a joke, and sounds like the whimpers of knee jerk fans. Oh, and the smell of fear reeks in this forum since the Rams got a QB.

-- Come on kids, toughen up.

Mase

 

[BASF]

Perception is such an interesting thing.

Some perspective on McVay's playoff record with the QB he was "saddled with", Rex Ryan won more playoff games with Mark Sanchez than McVay had with Goff. Goff is much better than Sanchez. The defenses are very similar in talent level and effectiveness. Quality of wins also matter here since it seems that the QB is the determining factor for many of you. Sanchez beat future hall of famers, Rivers, Manning and Brady while Goff "beat" Brees when one of the most egregious non-calls in NFL history happened because the NFL wanted the Rams in the Super Bowl and Wilson.

The perception is that McVay makes moves to fix their problems, while apparently Carroll does not. However, we make trades in season and the off season to improve the team. When the defense was not playing well we added the 46 defense to the playbook. The offensive line is a problem and will continue to be until Wilson starts taking the check downs.

All that said, Carroll has been figured out. It happens to every coach. Replacing him is the best move forward. People are clamoring for the flavor of the couple of seasons before a system gets figured out. That is what McVay has right now, but as he loses more and more coaches, his system will be figured out as well. That is the nature of the NFL. The funny thing is that so many people do not see the connections to the old systems and the variations that are now "new." Heck, it is about time that the old Moon version of the run and shoot makes a comeback. My hope is that Waldron has the next system that takes three or four seasons to figure out and that we can make him the next head coach.

 

[scutterhawk]

So you guys want the guy that game planned his way to 3 points in the SB.

3

Lulz

At least he's made it to the Superbowl lately which is more than can be said for Pete

NcVay's 3 points impresses y'all? LOLOLOLOLOLOL SERIOUSLY??, BWAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHHHA!!!!

 

[pittpnthrs]

So you guys want the guy that game planned his way to 3 points in the SB.

3

Lulz

At least he's made it to the Superbowl lately which is more than can be said for Pete

NcVay's 3 points impresses y'all? LOLOLOLOLOLOL SERIOUSLY??, BWAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHHHA!!!!

More than getting beat in the 1st round of the playoffs by a QB playing with 4 fingers.

 

[chris98251]

Well he has only 5 coaches left on his staff from last season now.

Coaching chemistry is important as player team chemistry, the Coaching staff has to understand and see the vision, they also have to be able to teach and put players in situations where they can succeed and have that translate to the field on game day.

We seen the difference when Richard became DC and we had a different Secondary coach, we seen the difference in OC and DC as well as LB coaches.

With all the changes in Ram Land will the chemistry work with a influx of people new to the organization teaching new stuff they are learning on the fly as well?

I think they step back.

 

[scutterhawk]

So you guys want the guy that game planned his way to 3 points in the SB.

3

Lulz

At least he's made it to the Superbowl lately which is more than can be said for Pete

NcVay's 3 points impresses y'all? LOLOLOLOLOLOL SERIOUSLY??, BWAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHHHA!!!!

More than getting beat in the 1st round of the playoffs by a QB playing with 4 fingers.

Meh...To each his own; Loyalty To Me ties directly to the same gig as the "Where Does Your Allegiance Lie" thread, that goes for Team, Players and COACHES of the Seahawks, and McVay ain't no part of the Seahawks, and I doubt like hell he ever will be.
It was Pete Carroll that got us our FIRST EVER LOMBARDI, NOT McVay.

 

[pittpnthrs]

At least he's made it to the Superbowl lately which is more than can be said for Pete

NcVay's 3 points impresses y'all? LOLOLOLOLOLOL SERIOUSLY??, BWAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHHHA!!!!

More than getting beat in the 1st round of the playoffs by a QB playing with 4 fingers.

Meh...To each his own; Loyalty To Me ties directly to the same gig as the "Where Does Your Allegiance Lie" thread, that goes for Team, Players and COACHES of the Seahawks, and McVay ain't no part of the Seahawks, and I doubt like hell he ever will be.
It was Pete Carroll that got us our FIRST EVER LOMBARDI, NOT McVay.

The Hawks just hired two of McVays brain trusts. Even Seattles front office must think pretty highly of him.

 

[scutterhawk]

NcVay's 3 points impresses y'all? LOLOLOLOLOLOL SERIOUSLY??, BWAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHHHA!!!!

More than getting beat in the 1st round of the playoffs by a QB playing with 4 fingers.

Meh...To each his own; Loyalty To Me ties directly to the same gig as the "Where Does Your Allegiance Lie" thread, that goes for Team, Players and COACHES of the Seahawks, and McVay ain't no part of the Seahawks, and I doubt like hell he ever will be.
It was Pete Carroll that got us our FIRST EVER LOMBARDI, NOT McVay.

The Hawks just hired two of McVays brain trusts. Even Seattles front office must think pretty highly of him.

You still can't dismiss the fact that Pete has already gotten us the Lombardi, and he did it as a SEAHAWKS COACH.
AND, by Pete firing Cable, & hiring Solari, sending Bevell down the road kicking horse turds, canning Schotts & going after Waldren PROVES that he recognized that changes were needed to be made, just like when all his Coaching staff were hired by different teams all over the League after he took the Seahawks to TWO Super Bowls in a row, that is the way of the League.
One thing is for certain, once a system is used for too long, changes need to be made, ALL Coaches know this, thus, a Constant Rotation throughout the League, until everything old (with tweaking) is new again.
Hell, I even heard that Bill Billycheat was a Coach for the Browns, eh?

 

[pittpnthrs]

More than getting beat in the 1st round of the playoffs by a QB playing with 4 fingers.

Meh...To each his own; Loyalty To Me ties directly to the same gig as the "Where Does Your Allegiance Lie" thread, that goes for Team, Players and COACHES of the Seahawks, and McVay ain't no part of the Seahawks, and I doubt like hell he ever will be.
It was Pete Carroll that got us our FIRST EVER LOMBARDI, NOT McVay.

The Hawks just hired two of McVays brain trusts. Even Seattles front office must think pretty highly of him.

You still can't dismiss the fact that Pete has already gotten us the Lombardi, and he did it as a SEAHAWKS COACH.
AND, by Pete firing Cable, & hiring Solari, sending Bevell down the road kicking horse turds, canning Schotts & going after Waldren PROVES that he recognized that changes were needed to be made, just like when all his Coaching staff were hired by different teams all over the League after he took the Seahawks to TWO Super Bowls in a row, that is the way of the League.
One thing is for certain, once a system is used for too long, changes need to be made, ALL Coaches know this, thus, a Constant Rotation throughout the League, until everything old (with tweaking) is new again.
Hell, I even heard that Bill Billycheat was a Coach for the Browns, eh?

What does past accomplishments have to do with todays issues? By living in the past, you cant move forward. The firing of Cable and Bevell was two years to late. Pete lost the locker room by not firing them sooner.

As for the Carroll versus McVay debate goes, all one needs to do is look at last seasons playoff game between the Seahawks and the Rams to get your answer. You had one coach that game planned and schemed for their team that had a backup QB and a starter with 4 fingers, and then you had a coach that used the same game plan the other team just saw a couple weeks earlier with no variations and was dumbfounded and clueless as to how and why they lost afterwards. Its really a no brainer.