Quick assessment by unit

Hawk1217 · Jun 27, 2018

:stirthepot:

Seymour":ug6rnoh4 said:
KiwiHawk":ug6rnoh4 said:

Oh for ----- sake. Lockett isn't injury prone, he got his leg broken. He's healed now, so it's all good. He's better than last year.

Click to expand...

I'm gunna agree with Kiwi for a change. 8)

Plus "looking sluggish" after that injury??

PLEASE.....he was coming on more and more the 2nd half of the season and on this play blew buy Peterson who has sub 4.4 speed.
Guess again!

[youtube]vYPmNaWIdK0[/youtube]

I agree if he is healthy Lockett can be huge, and I would not consider him injury prone. One Injury is not injury prone.

truehawksfan · Jun 27, 2018

I agree on DL assessment. Avril, Bennett and Sheldon Richardson are gone.

Did JS do enough to replace these guys? Can't wait for the preseason!

chris98251 · Jun 27, 2018

Just remember, we got Clemons from Phillys scrap heap, Bryant was a for sure cut at DT, Brock was too old and on the Colts scrap heap, Bennett was just a UDFA that was part of the Bucs rotation, Avril was a guy that didn't show anything in Detroit and was just serviceable due to the benefit of Suh's play.

We picked up 3 1st round picks from the 2013 draft that we nursed back to health and they contributed in spot play last year. This year they get to show what they are made of along with the rest of the guys. We have the bodies and pedigree so to speak, just a matter of them putting their effort and best foot forward, the closet isn't bare.

Spin Doctor · Jun 27, 2018

oldhawkfan":vtni36r9 said:
Spin Doctor":vtni36r9 said:

oldhawkfan":vtni36r9 said:

The national pundits are barely giving the Seahawks a second thought. Many of our own fan base looks at this as a rebuilding year while others seemingly have already written off the 2018 season. Some of the main cogs of the last 5 years have been jettisoned. Subtraction by addition some argue. Here is my quick assessment of each unit with a bit of analysis. I am grading thusly:

+....unit improved from 2017
-.....unit declined from 2017
=....unit remains same from 2017

QB.....=
RW is coming off a year where he was the offense. With a little help from other units he could be better by doing less.

RB.....+
Penny/Carson should provide an actual run threat

WR....+
Even though we lost Richardson I give this a plus. I thought about an = but I think it’s slightly better. Tyler Lockett has his injury return year in the past. I look for him to be much better than last year. Brandon Marshal brings some big play potential.

TE.....-
The loss of Jimmy may or may not be felt. Much of that impact will be determined by the new OC. The talent loss is a minus but the utilization factor might be a plus.

OL....+
Guys practicing, learning and playing one position will help. DJ Fluker will help. Experience will help. Unlike every other year of the past 5-7, there is at least some experience at every position. Ethan Pocic being the least experienced of all. Mike Solari is the anti cable and his presence alone brings the +

DL.....-
I give it a - mainly because of the number of guys lost....50% of the starters. The roster as it sits shows this position to be one of potential. Potentially explosive or potentially in need of impact players.

LB.....+
2/3 of the starters remain and make this unit one of the best in the league. The acquisitions made in the offseason give that last available position the opportunity to make it a better unit than in 2017.

DB....-/+
I had to give this unit 2 grades. One for the unit that started the year and one for the unit that ended the year. A -for whoever replaces the LOB but a + for the unit that ended the year. Whoever the starters are at the start of 2018, they ought to be better than the unit that ended 2017.

ST.....+
No Walsh means a definite +

COACHING...+
No Bevell, no Cable. That’s a definite improvement.

Overall score:
+.....7
-......3
=.....1

Only 10 units scored but DBs “earned” 2 grades.

What does all this mean? We won’t know for sure until the games are played, but I’m looking at a generally improved team. At least on paper.

Click to expand...

I disagree with you on a few of these things

1. WR -- our unit is notably worse this year. We have Baldwin, a special team ace and a receiver that is just about ready for his AARP card. Lockett has looked very sluggish, and he can't seem to stay healthy. Brandon Marshall could be a good role player. The only way this unit does anything is if somebody can replace the production of Richardson. Marshall could be a sleeper -- don't think much of Lockett as a receiver. He was not that great last year.

2. Coaching. Solari is an improvement, but both Richards, and Bevell have better track-records than Schottenheimer and Ken Norton Jr. at DC and OC. I think Ken Norton is only hear to be the enforcer, I heard Carroll was going to be calling plays this year anyways.

3. DB, no Thomas, no Chancellor, no Sherman. The starting unit was objectively better than this years starting unit. Even if we're grading it by "end of the year" we still had Thomas. Now, he could still comeback, but right now things aren't looking good on this front. If he does comeback it is pretty much the same as the unit we ended last year with.

Everything else I agree with.

Click to expand...

I don’t know that the WR unit is notably worse. The things you say about Lockett are similar to the things said about Richardson his first 2-3 years. 2017 Lockett was not as good as 2016 Lockett. Coming off his injury takes time to get back what he had. I think he’ll be better than what Richardson was last year. That being said, then we just need the guy behind him to be better than 2017 Lockett to make this unit better than 2017.

I don't like Lockett that much as a starting receiver. I don't think he has the chops to be an outside guy, which is what we need. Baldwin does his best work when he is exploiting defenses from the slot, though he can do both. Lockett is a role player.

adeltaY · Jun 27, 2018

I think people are forgetting Lockett also strained (or tore?) his PCL against the Rams in week 2 of 2016 so he was hurt for a good portion of that season before he broke his leg. Not saying that makes him injury prone, but he has had more than one meaningful injury.

Also, I'm inclined to agree with Spin in terms of Lockett needs to be schemed open given his size and catch radius, which is quite small. He would excel in a Shanahan type system as he's a better version of Taylor Gabriel or Marquise Goodwin IMO.

Wilson would benefit from a receiver with a larger catch radius. I was watching some Eagles games and Wentz found huge success this year throwing into tight windows with defenders draped all over his WRs/TEs. You need guys who are physical and can fight through contact to add that to your passing game arsenal. I hope Marshall or one of the young, bigger guys like Darboh can be that for us.

CamanoIslandJQ · Jun 30, 2018

I think the running game will be much improved this season. The Seahawks had the #27 pick and all of the RB's other than Barkley were available, yet they selected Penny, that says a lot. Question is why Penny, how does he compare to the other top RB's? Hint: By stat comparison, Penny blows the doors off all of these guys.

2017: FBS Rushing Yard Production by the (top) drafted RB's, ranked by total rushing yards.

#1-Rashaad Penny, 289/2248/7.78-ypc/23-TD's, 172.92-yds/game
#10-Royce Freeman, 244/1475/6.05-ypc/16-TD's, 122.92-yds/game (65.6% of Penny's yardage)
#13-Ronald Jones, 261/1550/5.94-ypc/19-TD's, 119.23-yds/game. (68.9% of Penny's yardage)
#15-Kerryon Johnson, 285/1391/4.88-ypc/18-TD's, 115.92-yds/game (61.8% of Penny's yardage)
#24-Derrius Guice, 237/1251/5.28-ypc/11-TD's, 104.25-yds/game. (55.6% of Penny's yardage)
#33-Saquon Barkley, 217/1271/5,86-ypc/18-TD's, 97.77-yds/game.(56.5% of Penny's yardage)
#40-Nick Chubb, 223/1345/6.03-ypc/15-TD's, 89.67-yds/game. (59.8% of Penny's yardage)
#43-Sony Michel, 156/1227/7.87-ypc/16-TD;s, 87.64-yds/game. (54.5% of Penny's yardage)

Stats: http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/leader/nat ... ort01.html

Penny = Of the 5 categories listed above (att/yds/ypc/TD's/yds-game).
#1 in # of carries, (289)
#1 in rushing yards (2248)
#2 in ypc. (7.78)
#1 in rushing TD's (23)
#1 in yds./game (172.92)

And yet, Guice is being touted as the "steal of the draft" by the Redskins? Barkley goes in the top 3 of the draft? Many predict he'll be an all-pro. Many say Penny was a reach at #27? Really? The #'s don't support that opinion as we will soon find out when the preseason games start.

The counter to the #'s by Penny will undoubtfully be "lesser competition", but The 31.1% to 45.5% LESS YARDS produced by each of the above players should more than make up for the supposed lesser competition angle many will yell about. Not to mention, Penny's post season performance in his bowl game was the best by far of all these guys plus the Sr. bowl shows that the lack of competition angle is not really relevant. With the new offense, I expect the Seahawks to be among the top running teams this coming season and RW will benefit significantly from that. The Seahawks may very well surprise & shock a few teams and perform well beyond current expectations.

:smilingalien:

CamanoIslandJQ · Jun 30, 2018

I think the running game will be much improved this season. The Seahawks had the #27 pick and all of the RB's other than Barkley were available, yet they selected Penny, that says a lot. Question is why Penny, how does he compare to the other top RB's? Hint: By stat comparison, Penny blows the doors off all of these guys.

2017: FBS Rushing Yard Production by the (top) drafted RB's, ranked by total rushing yards.

#1-Rashaad Penny, 289/2248/7.78-ypc/23-TD's, 172.92-yds/game
#10-Royce Freeman, 244/1475/6.05-ypc/16-TD's, 122.92-yds/game (65.6% of Penny's yardage)
#13-Ronald Jones, 261/1550/5.94-ypc/19-TD's, 119.23-yds/game. (68.9% of Penny's yardage)
#15-Kerryon Johnson, 285/1391/4.88-ypc/18-TD's, 115.92-yds/game (61.8% of Penny's yardage)
#24-Derrius Guice, 237/1251/5.28-ypc/11-TD's, 104.25-yds/game. (55.6% of Penny's yardage)
#33-Saquon Barkley, 217/1271/5,86-ypc/18-TD's, 97.77-yds/game.(56.5% of Penny's yardage)
#40-Nick Chubb, 223/1345/6.03-ypc/15-TD's, 89.67-yds/game. (59.8% of Penny's yardage)
#43-Sony Michel, 156/1227/7.87-ypc/16-TD;s, 87.64-yds/game. (54.5% of Penny's yardage)

Stats: http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/leader/nat ... ort01.html

Penny = Of the 5 categories listed above (att/yds/ypc/TD's/yds-game).
#1 in # of carries, (289)
#1 in rushing yards (2248)
#2 in ypc. (7.78)
#1 in rushing TD's (23)
#1 in yds./game (172.92)

And yet, Guice is being touted as the "steal of the draft" by the Redskins? Barkley goes in the top 3 of the draft? Many predict he'll be an all-pro. Many say Penny was a reach at #27? Really? The #'s don't support that opinion as we will soon find out when the preseason games start.

The counter to the #'s by Penny will undoubtfully be "lesser competition", but The 31.1% to 45.5% LESS YARDS produced by each of the above players should more than make up for the supposed lesser competition angle many will yell about. Not to mention, Penny's post season performance in his bowl game was the best by far of all these guys plus the Sr. bowl shows that the lack of competition angle is not really relevant. With the new offense, I expect the Seahawks to be among the top running teams this coming season and RW will benefit significantly from that. The Seahawks may very well surprise & shock a few teams and perform well beyond current expectations.

:smilingalien:

SeaHawk80 · Jul 4, 2018

While all those yards are real nice, the broken tackle rate and number of explosive plays are way more impressive IMO
And his yards after contact, 3.32, :shock: Im getting a little too excited.. :drool:

So much to love about this young man.

https://247sports.com/pffcollege/Bolt/C ... 109326019/

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/4/26/17 ... e-seahawks

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/cfb/137 ... haad-penny

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/d ... und-talent

Go Hawks

KiwiHawk · Jul 4, 2018

oldhawkfan":1nx9hb89 said:
TE.....-
The loss of Jimmy may or may not be felt. Much of that impact will be determined by the new OC. The talent loss is a minus but the utilization factor might be a plus.

I'll go further on this and say that TE will be a plus. Graham never learned to block and was poorly utilised as a blocker to begin with. Having blocking tight ends who know their role will make a big difference in the running game, and having them as capable pass-catchers is just a plus.

The ability to run the ball in the red zone - if the changes we've made work as planned - will more than counter the TD productivity of Graham.

The only reason we needed big targets in the end zone was that we were in no danger of running the ball. With a real run threat, Baldwin and Lockette can be plenty successful.

toffee · Jul 4, 2018

+....unit improved from 2017
-.....unit declined from 2017
=....unit remains same from 2017

QB (?)
Hard to say, it all depends on the state of OL and RBs.

RB (+)
I have faith in Penny, and the addition of FB and blocking TE can only help.

WR (-)
Baldwin and Lockett have to carry the load, rest are very unproven. Since Jimmy was basically a WR, we basically lost two proven targets.

TE (+)
Jimmy was too arrogant to block, he was a TE in name only. I like our new guys, especially when it comes to blocking, a traditional task for ALL TEs not named Jimmy Graham.

OL (?)
I suspect the group will do better in run blocking, we have every reason to worry about pass blocking. The addition of a blocking TE will help a lot.

DL (=)
I think the drop off may be minimum as we won't very good last season with all our DL stars. We do have a few youngsters flashed potential. That (=) is not a compliment, we weren't good last season.

LB (+)
More depth this year.

DB (=)
Weaker on paper, but I have faith in Pete.

COACHING (?)
I am taking a wait and see on this one.

I predict that offensively, we will have a stronger running game, a weaker passing game, more success in the red zone as we aren't a pass only team in redzone anymore. Defense wise, we may start the season weaker than last year then finish stronger, all in about on par as last season with more aggressive youngsters and less cranky old stars.

This team may finish with similar record as last year but hungrier and inspire much brighter future!

Tical21 · Jul 5, 2018

Nice writeup! The problem with doing a write-up this way though is that besides QB, the two units Pete relies on the most are the DL (pass-rush in particular) and DB, which have by far the biggest declines. If you were doing a weighted system based on positional importance, I can't imagine this team is comparable on paper to the team we played the bulk of last season with. Now, Pete gets a lot of young players to step up quickly and play at a high level, but you're "hoping" players play well, rather than "knowing", as we have been able to do for many years.

chris98251 · Jul 5, 2018

The biggest tell about our situation is what we see in the supplemental draft, there are some long CB's there that have a high talent level and then who and where we sign guys from once cuts start to happen during camp, we always churn but paying attention to the numbers in a position group will give us insight whether Pete is happy with what we have so far. D line isn't a empty cabinet, there is talent there, but is it healthy talent. Again cast off vets we bring in for minimum will tell that tale.

KiwiHawk · Jul 5, 2018

Tical21":240sw48l said:
Nice writeup! The problem with doing a write-up this way though is that besides QB, the two units Pete relies on the most are the DL (pass-rush in particular) and DB, which have by far the biggest declines. If you were doing a weighted system based on positional importance, I can't imagine this team is comparable on paper to the team we played the bulk of last season with. Now, Pete gets a lot of young players to step up quickly and play at a high level, but you're "hoping" players play well, rather than "knowing", as we have been able to do for many years.

The argument goes both ways, however.

Sherman, Maxwell and Chancellor were virtual no-names, Browner was a CFL washout, and only ET was a known commodity before they became the LOB.

Now the concern is we lost a lot of those guys and have some young players coming in to replace them, which is pretty much where the LOB started out before they became the LOB.

The constant in all of this is Pete Carroll, so the question is whether or not he can assemble another LOB. From the guys we have seen lots of, like Griffin and Coleman, I'd say we don't look so bad, and given that Carroll is still calling the shots, I reckon we'll be OK.

The proof in the pudding for me was the performance we put in against the Eagles last year. Most of the LOB were out for that game and the Eagles were the most prolific offense in the NFL as at the date of that game. We still shut them down, business as usual.

But then there's the second Rams game where we got shredded - what of that? Maybe some let down for no chance at making he playoffs? Maybe they aren't any good? Maybe we had so many injuries that we just plain ran out of warm bodies to throw on the field. I guess we'll find out shortly.

toffee · Jul 5, 2018

KiwiHawk":advdjij2 said:
The proof in the pudding for me was the performance we put in against the Eagles last year. Most of the LOB were out for that game and the Eagles were the most prolific offense in the NFL as at the date of that game. We still shut them down, business as usual.

But then there's the second Rams game where we got shredded - what of that? Maybe some let down for no chance at making he playoffs? Maybe they aren't any good? Maybe we had so many injuries that we just plain ran out of warm bodies to throw on the field. I guess we'll find out shortly.

One can speculate that Eagles had a down game and our guys were too full of themselves from the Eagles game when they met the Rams. Young guys, it's a learning journey. Who knows?

AgentDib · Jul 6, 2018

Hawk1217":3tbxemx8 said:
I think the biggest question that needs answering is the Offense. Will they play conservative, to not make mistakes, to not win in the 1-2-3rd, and wait till the 4th like last year, as PC has preached. Or will they come out to win from the beginning. Will they try to run at all cost, or let Wilson do what he does.

I think you're in for disappointment if you see this as a question in the first place, let alone the biggest question. We brought in Schottenheimer because of his focus on the run game and then drafted a RB in the first. Pete absolutely wants the offense to get back to the run focused conservative approach that has been successful for the team overall in previous years.

Jimjones0384 · Jul 15, 2018

NJlargent":1o1h5hkt said:
The best reason for optimism is that we got rid of some coaches and Penny. He has a chance to be a stud. My concern is the OL is awful outside LT. Hopefully new coaching blood can make these guys serviceable. However, on paper I cannot see Penny or Carson being effective behind this OL. Games are won on the OL and DL.

On defense we lost Sherman, Bennett and potentially Thomas (mentally). It is a difficult to think we upgraded based upon some young players that are still unproven.

All in all, regardless of our record, the coaches needed to go and we needed some fresh energy. We have taken a step in the right direction with a great QB and some young potential. I am interested to see what Carroll does with this new wave of players and personnel.

The thing that gives me hope that they can become serviceable is the Rams. They did the same, new coaching staff and brought in older left tackle. Went from arguably worse than the Hawks, to a lot better, in an off season. Now, I'm not saying the will follow suit, just that it can be done.

Jville · Jul 15, 2018

Looking thru the lens of play calling ..............

Well rounded three down offensive personnel project uncertainty into the minds of defenders. I thought there was too much in the way of tipping of the hand and waiting on personnel substitution in 2017. They were unable to correct because of the limitations and or short comings of the 2017 personnel they settled on.

Looking ahead, a couple of 2018 unit upgrade examples on offense would include .......................

Running Back: Adding another 3 down running back in Rashaad Penny to go with Chris Carson is huge. Less tipping of the play calling hand and better up tempo accommodation should result.

Tight End: Replacing 2 role specialists with a better rounded Ed Dickson and rookie Will Dissly is huge for a goal of less tipping of the hand and better up tempo results.

................ just a couple of examples of position upgrades for their 2018 plan.

Seahawkfan80 · Jul 15, 2018

Jville":3mn3vusw said:
Looking thru the lens of play calling ..............

Well rounded three down offensive personnel project uncertainty into the minds of defenders. I thought there was too much in the way of tipping of the hand and waiting on personnel substitution in 2017. They were unable to correct because of the limitations and or short comings of the 2017 personnel they settled on.

Looking ahead, a couple of 2018 unit upgrade examples on offense would include .......................

Running Back: Adding another 3 down running back in Rashaad Penny to go with Chris Carson is huge. Less tipping of the play calling hand and better up tempo accommodation should result.

Tight End: Replacing 2 role specialists with a better rounded Ed Dickson and rookie Will Dissly is huge for a goal of less tipping of the hand and better up tempo results.

................ just a couple of examples of position upgrades for their 2018 plan.

Well said. That plus a couple of first downs, even if it does not mean a touchdown or fieldgoal, means more time for equal time for the defense and offense on the field. Equal time usually means rested personnel and availability for play in the 4th quarter.

Quick assessment by unit

Hawk1217

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truehawksfan

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chris98251

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Spin Doctor

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adeltaY

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CamanoIslandJQ

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CamanoIslandJQ

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SeaHawk80

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KiwiHawk

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toffee

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Tical21

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chris98251

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KiwiHawk

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toffee

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AgentDib

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Jimjones0384

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Jville

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Seahawkfan80

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