Please stop blaming Kam's agent

WilliamCooper · Sep 22, 2015

An agent can only act on what his principal instructs him to act upon. Doing anything else is malpractice. It would be like your attorney telling you that you need to plea out and you saying no, I want to go to trial--your attorney MUST take it to trial, or ask the court for permission to withdraw.

This situation went down two ways: (1) Kam calls Alvin Keels (who is a 757 guy and reps many players from that area) and says, "hey I want more money moved forward to 2016 or I am holding out." Keels says "Kam they won't re-do a deal with that much time left." Kam says, "do it, you work for me, or I'll find someone who will do it!" Or (2) Keels says, "Kam, you're 27, I think you're getting below market value, lets see if we can get more money." Kam says either "yes, let's do it," or "no way, I am not holding out and putting myself in financial trouble."

Either way, Kam and ONLY KAM, is the one who can make the decision. This isn't about Kam getting "bad advice." This is the exact garbage you hear from athletes that make 50 or 60 million dollars over a career and lose it all, only to think their agent gave them bad advice, not that they gambled it away and spent it maintaining a 20 man posse.

In this United States, you have freedom to contract. We are all presumed to be of sound mind and capable of reading the English language. Kam understood the CBA and how contracts work in his profession. Please stop blaming his agent for this mess. Kam Chancellor made the decision to hold out, period.

2_0_6 · Sep 22, 2015

An agent is hired to get you the BEST deal you can get for the span of the contract. Not for one year.

WilliamCooper · Sep 22, 2015

Hawk_Nation":1jt17evj said:
An agent is hired to get you the BEST deal you can get for the span of the contract. Not for one year.

Actually, the agent is hired to do whatever the player tells him to do. Again, he works for the player. If Kam told him to ask for a billion dollars in 2016, and Keels said no, Kam would be perfectly within his legal rights to fire Keels and find someone that will try to get him a billion dollars.

sutz · Sep 22, 2015

I never blame the agent. He may give bad advice, but in the end the player is the boss and makes the final decisions.

Regardless of the agent's advice, this is all on Kam.

TwistedHusky · Sep 22, 2015

There is a great deal to this situation that does not make sense.

I am starting to believe that the only rational explanation is that the theory that Kam is hurt is likely. If Kam hurt himself trying to save this team in the GB game and exacerbated it in the SB, then it would make sense he could not play/report.

And it would completely make sense why he wants the bulk of the 2017 money moved to 2016 - because he would feel that he wouldn't be playing in 2017 anyway.

In that instant, not sure how you could be mad at the guy for not playing when he cannot play anyway. And if that is true, and he did get hurt worse trying to play while hurt, then a lot of the hatred/invective fans have thrown at him will have been misplaced.

Because otherwise the damage this is doing to his playing career makes no sense, the holdout should be next year not this. Unless he really is injured, couldn't play this year anyway and would expect to get cut the moment he reports next year?

2_0_6 · Sep 22, 2015

WilliamCooper":268m8scw said:
Hawk_Nation":268m8scw said:

An agent is hired to get you the BEST deal you can get for the span of the contract. Not for one year.

Click to expand...

Actually, the agent is hired to do whatever the player tells him to do. Again, he works for the player. If Kam told him to ask for a billion dollars in 2016, and Keels said no, Kam would be perfectly within his legal rights to fire Keels and find someone that will try to get him a billion dollars.

I suppose Kam's agent isn't the one that put it in his ear that he can get more money? Right.

Sgt. Largent · Sep 22, 2015

WilliamCooper":3hoq6hsi said:
This situation went down two ways: (1) Kam calls Alvin Keels (who is a 757 guy and reps many players from that area) and says, "hey I want more money moved forward to 2016 or I am holding out." Keels says "Kam they won't re-do a deal with that much time left." Kam says, "do it, you work for me, or I'll find someone who will do it!" Or (2) Keels says, "Kam, you're 27, I think you're getting below market value, lets see if we can get more money." Kam says either "yes, let's do it," or "no way, I am not holding out and putting myself in financial trouble.".

Either of these scenarios and IMO the agent's not doing his job............so sorry, I'm blaming the guy.

80% of an agent's job is to give sound advice, and telling a client, or caving into a client because you don't want to lose him is being a bad agent.

My guess is Keel did tell Kam this could be a LONG holdout if he chose this path, and Kam said he was fine with that. Either way, terrible agent because in the end Kam is not going to get what he wants..........at least not here.

WilliamCooper · Sep 22, 2015

Hawk_Nation":1esi2ynu said:
WilliamCooper":1esi2ynu said:

Hawk_Nation":1esi2ynu said:

An agent is hired to get you the BEST deal you can get for the span of the contract. Not for one year.

Click to expand...

Actually, the agent is hired to do whatever the player tells him to do. Again, he works for the player. If Kam told him to ask for a billion dollars in 2016, and Keels said no, Kam would be perfectly within his legal rights to fire Keels and find someone that will try to get him a billion dollars.

Click to expand...

I suppose Kam's agent isn't the one that put it in his ear that he can get more money? Right.

Again, the agent works for the player. Kam is a grown man. The decision to enter into this is on Kam. Kam knew that the current situation was likely to unfold.

You have to understand, this stuff doesn't work like the movies. You don't "put things" in your client's ears. Your client comes to you and tells you what they want. I am sorry, but some of you have been watching too much Jerry Maguire.

WilliamCooper · Sep 22, 2015

Sgt. Largent":82z6adqu said:
WilliamCooper":82z6adqu said:

This situation went down two ways: (1) Kam calls Alvin Keels (who is a 757 guy and reps many players from that area) and says, "hey I want more money moved forward to 2016 or I am holding out." Keels says "Kam they won't re-do a deal with that much time left." Kam says, "do it, you work for me, or I'll find someone who will do it!" Or (2) Keels says, "Kam, you're 27, I think you're getting below market value, lets see if we can get more money." Kam says either "yes, let's do it," or "no way, I am not holding out and putting myself in financial trouble.".

Click to expand...

Either of these scenarios and IMO the agent's not doing his job............so sorry, I'm blaming the guy.

80% of an agent's job is to give sound advice, and telling a client, or caving into a client because you don't want to lose him is being a bad agent.

My guess is Keel did tell Kam this could be a LONG holdout if he chose this path, and Kam said he was fine with that. Either way, terrible agent because in the end Kam is not going to get what he wants..........at least not here.

100% of an agent's job is to do what his client tells him to do, provided that the agent isn't double dealing, or terminate the relationship. Doing anything else is a breach of fiduciary duty and you can expect a law suit. If every NFL agent, or lawyer for that matter, didn't do what their client told them because they didn't want to cave, there would be starving lawyers and agents everywhere.

As fans, we have to take the emotion out of this and realize the legal principles at work.

2_0_6 · Sep 22, 2015

WilliamCooper":2oo5i8dm said:
Hawk_Nation":2oo5i8dm said:

WilliamCooper":2oo5i8dm said:

Hawk_Nation":2oo5i8dm said:

An agent is hired to get you the BEST deal you can get for the span of the contract. Not for one year.

Click to expand...

Actually, the agent is hired to do whatever the player tells him to do. Again, he works for the player. If Kam told him to ask for a billion dollars in 2016, and Keels said no, Kam would be perfectly within his legal rights to fire Keels and find someone that will try to get him a billion dollars.

Click to expand...

I suppose Kam's agent isn't the one that put it in his ear that he can get more money? Right.

Click to expand...

Again, the agent works for the player. Kam is a grown man. The decision to enter into this is on Kam. Kam knew that the current situation was likely to unfold.

You have to understand, this stuff doesn't work like the movies. You don't "put things" in your client's ears. Your client comes to you and tells you what they want. I am sorry, but some of you have been watching too much Jerry Maguire.

This isn't the movies? You mean this is real life?

Take your blinders off and realize that it's probably a 50/50 split between Kam and his agent to hold out.

Do you know its not him? No
Do I? No

Basis4day · Sep 22, 2015

TwistedHusky":2ss2hok0 said:
There is a great deal to this situation that does not make sense.

I am starting to believe that the only rational explanation is that the theory that Kam is hurt is likely. If Kam hurt himself trying to save this team in the GB game and exacerbated it in the SB, then it would make sense he could not play/report.

And it would completely make sense why he wants the bulk of the 2017 money moved to 2016 - because he would feel that he wouldn't be playing in 2017 anyway.

In that instant, not sure how you could be mad at the guy for not playing when he cannot play anyway. And if that is true, and he did get hurt worse trying to play while hurt, then a lot of the hatred/invective fans have thrown at him will have been misplaced.

Because otherwise the damage this is doing to his playing career makes no sense, the holdout should be next year not this. Unless he really is injured, couldn't play this year anyway and would expect to get cut the moment he reports next year?

Kam being too hurt to play makes no sense at all. Every single contract signed or restructured is contingent on passing a physical. All players go through a physical when they report to the team for the start of the league year. And Kam was healthy enough to participate in OTAs and by all accounts looked great. This doesn't sound at all to me like a player hiding an injury serious enough to keep him from playing ever again. And the team knows about his knee. Don't you think they're paying extra attention to it?

Assuming this your speculation is correct and assuming Kam's holdout was successful then he needs to pass a physical to get his new money. How can that happen if he is hiding an injury that makes it impossible to play? That would void any new deal he got following a successful holdout.

Now, the fear of an injury or Kam projecting what his body will be like following a season is an absolute, if not obvious reason to holdout. But those are two very different things; Current injury and expected health.

WilliamCooper · Sep 22, 2015

This isn't the movies? You mean this is real life?

Take your blinders off and realize that it's probably a 50/50 split between Kam and his agent to hold out.

Do you know its not him? No
Do I? No[/quote]

It is 100% on Kam Chancellor's part to hold out, period. That's why Kam is getting 100% of the financial repercussions. I do know it is the law of agency, I don't need to know the details.

Scottemojo · Sep 22, 2015

Another poster telling people who to blame and who not to. Yippee.

WilliamCooper · Sep 22, 2015

Basis4day":1hj36kes said:
TwistedHusky":1hj36kes said:

There is a great deal to this situation that does not make sense.

I am starting to believe that the only rational explanation is that the theory that Kam is hurt is likely. If Kam hurt himself trying to save this team in the GB game and exacerbated it in the SB, then it would make sense he could not play/report.

And it would completely make sense why he wants the bulk of the 2017 money moved to 2016 - because he would feel that he wouldn't be playing in 2017 anyway.

In that instant, not sure how you could be mad at the guy for not playing when he cannot play anyway. And if that is true, and he did get hurt worse trying to play while hurt, then a lot of the hatred/invective fans have thrown at him will have been misplaced.

Because otherwise the damage this is doing to his playing career makes no sense, the holdout should be next year not this. Unless he really is injured, couldn't play this year anyway and would expect to get cut the moment he reports next year?

Click to expand...

Kam being too hurt to play makes no sense at all. Every single contract signed or restructured is contingent on passing a physical. All players go through a physical when they report to the team for the start of the league year. And Kam was healthy enough to participate in OTAs and by all accounts looked great. This doesn't sound at all to me like a player hiding an injury serious enough to keep him from playing ever again. And the team knows about his knee. Don't you think they're paying extra attention to it?

Assuming this your speculation is correct and assuming Kam's holdout was successful then he needs to pass a physical to get his new money. How can that happen if he is hiding an injury that makes it impossible to play? That would void any new deal he got following a successful holdout.

Now, the fear of an injury or Kam projecting what his body will be like following a season is an absolute, if not obvious reason to holdout. But those are two very different things; Current injury and expected health.

From my recollection of the CBA, all contracts are contingent upon the player passing a physical. And if they moved money into 2016, they are essentially creating a new contract, even if it is treated as an addendum. So yes, you're right, the injury conspiracy theory sounds juicy, but it's just that, a conspiracy theory.

Sgt. Largent · Sep 22, 2015

WilliamCooper":1k2ui97m said:
Sgt. Largent":1k2ui97m said:

WilliamCooper":1k2ui97m said:

This situation went down two ways: (1) Kam calls Alvin Keels (who is a 757 guy and reps many players from that area) and says, "hey I want more money moved forward to 2016 or I am holding out." Keels says "Kam they won't re-do a deal with that much time left." Kam says, "do it, you work for me, or I'll find someone who will do it!" Or (2) Keels says, "Kam, you're 27, I think you're getting below market value, lets see if we can get more money." Kam says either "yes, let's do it," or "no way, I am not holding out and putting myself in financial trouble.".

Click to expand...

Either of these scenarios and IMO the agent's not doing his job............so sorry, I'm blaming the guy.

80% of an agent's job is to give sound advice, and telling a client, or caving into a client because you don't want to lose him is being a bad agent.

My guess is Keel did tell Kam this could be a LONG holdout if he chose this path, and Kam said he was fine with that. Either way, terrible agent because in the end Kam is not going to get what he wants..........at least not here.

Click to expand...

100% of an agent's job is to do what his client tells him to do, provided that the agent isn't double dealing, or terminate the relationship. Doing anything else is a breach of fiduciary duty and you can expect a law suit. If every NFL agent, or lawyer for that matter, didn't do what their client told them because they didn't want to cave, there would be starving lawyers and agents everywhere.

As fans, we have to take the emotion out of this and realize the legal principles at work.

I disagree. I'm in the investment and insurance business, if I just did what my clients wanted then I'd be out of business and they'd be broke. Because the majority of their decisions are based on emotional and panic, not logic or sound financial reasoning.

Being an agent or adviser is about expertise. You're being paid to know more than the client or customer does, that's the ENTIRE reason you're in the equation. So for Keel to just do whatever Kam wants is being an extremely poor adviser. He's being paid to give Kam sound advice, even if that means saying things Kam doesn't want to hear.

WilliamCooper · Sep 22, 2015

Sgt. Largent":1tmt51tx said:
WilliamCooper":1tmt51tx said:

Sgt. Largent":1tmt51tx said:

WilliamCooper":1tmt51tx said:

This situation went down two ways: (1) Kam calls Alvin Keels (who is a 757 guy and reps many players from that area) and says, "hey I want more money moved forward to 2016 or I am holding out." Keels says "Kam they won't re-do a deal with that much time left." Kam says, "do it, you work for me, or I'll find someone who will do it!" Or (2) Keels says, "Kam, you're 27, I think you're getting below market value, lets see if we can get more money." Kam says either "yes, let's do it," or "no way, I am not holding out and putting myself in financial trouble.".

Click to expand...

Either of these scenarios and IMO the agent's not doing his job............so sorry, I'm blaming the guy.

80% of an agent's job is to give sound advice, and telling a client, or caving into a client because you don't want to lose him is being a bad agent.

My guess is Keel did tell Kam this could be a LONG holdout if he chose this path, and Kam said he was fine with that. Either way, terrible agent because in the end Kam is not going to get what he wants..........at least not here.

Click to expand...

100% of an agent's job is to do what his client tells him to do, provided that the agent isn't double dealing, or terminate the relationship. Doing anything else is a breach of fiduciary duty and you can expect a law suit. If every NFL agent, or lawyer for that matter, didn't do what their client told them because they didn't want to cave, there would be starving lawyers and agents everywhere.

As fans, we have to take the emotion out of this and realize the legal principles at work.

Click to expand...

I disagree. I'm in the investment and insurance business, if I just did what my clients wanted then I'd be out of business and they'd be broke. Because the majority of their decisions are based on emotional and panic, not logic or sound financial reasoning.

Being an agent or adviser is about expertise. You're being paid to know more than the client or customer does, that's the ENTIRE reason you're in the equation. So for Keel to just do whatever Kam wants is being an extremely poor adviser. He's being paid to give Kam sound advice, even if that means saying things Kam doesn't want to hear.

Yes, you are under a different set of obligations because of FINRA and other legislation passed by Congress. Keels only has to comply with the CBA, and state laws on agency principals. I understand where you are coming from, but you're playing on a totally different ball field than Keels.

Rocket · Sep 22, 2015

hooey, to the op.

Players hire agents because they understand the process of negotiating an NFL complexity level contract... the ins and outs. Typically agents have a law degree or have lawyers on the payroll.

Contrast this with your typical kid from the hood, some JC, or some decent college somewhere. Many have no degree and studied girls and coke... I've watched it happen, google Micheal Ray. The process of negotiating contracts, the "business" aspect of pro football , are square in the laps of the agent. To be sure the player makes the final decision, but so {censored} what?

Most players are incapable of negotiating a contract in their best interests on their own, so they hire an agent.

KC didn't up and attempt to re-negotiate without consulting with the Sunshine Band (his advisors) first. To be sure the band could have been his posse, but I'm pretty comfortable betting that the agent was chin-deep in this process.

In a fine situation the agent loses NOTHING... the agent wins if there is a renegotiation but loses for missed games if I read the thread on agent compensation right, and they're right. In this situation the agent seems to be in a precarious advice standpoint cuz 1) they're human and 2) they have a fiduciary responsibility to their kids dental work.

I blame the agent for kicking this off, knowing how Kam would probably take this if Schneider did what an agent should expect.

I can't see putting the whole thing on Kams shoulders cuz it appears, to me, that he was fed rotten info at the start.

Just IMHO.

Our Man in Chicago · Sep 22, 2015

Come, now.

Kameron Chancellor is a 27 year old man who plays football for a living. He majored in Human Development, not Sports Management or Law, and certainly has limited acumen in those fields compared to his counselor/agent.

At some point, it's a semantic game regarding the decision, per se, versus what led to the player's decision to hold out on his "own volition." It's the same way in the field of law. A poisoned well leads to bad water. Innocent people plea bargain out of cases all the time.

We don't know who or what circumstance poisoned Kam and turned him against the deal he felt "blessed" to sign only a short while ago, but we do know that "his decision" to sign to a contract with less than $10M guaranteed was overseen by his agent. That was technically Kam's decision, too. But Kam's not mad at himself for signing that deal. He probably feels as if he was hoodwinked. Why would he now think that? Even if someone else put the bug in his ear, his agent must give Kam counsel going forward. Keels looks bad both ways.

Furthermore, Scott Boras, Tom Condon, and Arn Tellem are hardly altruists with no skin in the game; if I am to take your statements at face value, wither sports agents? Why aren't there more pro se, as it were, players who don't defer pay to unnecessary middlemen?

rcaido · Sep 22, 2015

That's it...That's it.....WilliamCooper is Alvin Keels...Alvin Keels is WilliamCooper

WilliamCooper is Kam's agent....OMG WilliamCooper is Kam's Agent!

WilliamCooper · Sep 22, 2015

Rocket":11rzgf3p said:
hooey, to the op.

Players hire agents because they understand the process of negotiating an NFL complexity level contract... the ins and outs. Typically agents have a law degree or have lawyers on the payroll.

Contrast this with your typical kid from the hood, some JC, or some decent college somewhere. Many have no degree and studied girls and coke... I've watched it happen, google Micheal Ray. The process of negotiating contracts, the "business" aspect of pro football , are square in the laps of the agent. To be sure the player makes the final decision, but so {censored} what?

Most players are incapable of negotiating a contract in their best interests on their own, so they hire an agent.

KC didn't up and attempt to re-negotiate without consulting with the Sunshine Band (his advisors) first. To be sure the band could have been his posse, but I'm pretty comfortable betting that the agent was chin-deep in this process.

In a fine situation the agent loses NOTHING... the agent wins if there is a renegotiation but loses for missed games if I read the thread on agent compensation right, and they're right. In this situation the agent seems to be in a precarious advice standpoint cuz 1) they're human and 2) they have a fiduciary responsibility to their kids dental work.

I blame the agent for kicking this off, knowing how Kam would probably take this if Schneider did what an agent should expect.

I can't see putting the whole thing on Kams shoulders cuz it appears, to me, that he was fed rotten info at the start.

Just IMHO.

This entire line of reasoning is why we are in trouble as a country. Everyone wants to look to someone to blame for their own poor decisions. Just like people during the mortgage crisis who thought borrowing 400,000 for a home on a 75K a year household income was the bank's fault, not their's.

Kam is a man. He is 27 years old. He has four years of university education. He reads and writes English. He is more than capable of understanding the consequences of his actions. He is the boss of his agent, not the other way around. To take any other approach is to advocate a paternalistic attitude towards contracting. I guess we should have a different set of standards of contracting when we are dealing with "you typical kid from the hood," right?

Please stop blaming Kam's agent

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