New Territory for Pete

Davis Hsu was talking about this on Twitter last night, and it's an interesting conversation.

Now that Pete is what, 6 years into his gig in Seattle, this is the first time in his career he's had to physically, emotionally and psychologically manage the same core group of players for more than four years.

Yes he was at USC for more than four years, but it's college so players are gone in four years or less.

Is his rah rah go 1-0 every week's a championship week win forever always compete philosophy now falling on the deaf ears of these players who are tired of hearing it?

I hate to bring up Belicheat, but maybe the reason his team never loses that hunger is BECAUSE he churns that roster over and over because he knows keeping the same SB winning always successful players breeds complacency.

I saw those tweets too. Very interesting conversation.

I found this quote interesting, talking about players in their 4th, 5th, 6th year, "I mean- & I do think Carroll should be himself - but if he walked into first meeting of the year - held up football "It's all about the ball" and that was the 6th time you had heard that "start a season" message?...of course some players would tune out a bit - it's human nature..."

Sgt. Largent":3c9dgakk said:

Davis Hsu was talking about this on Twitter last night, and it's an interesting conversation.

Now that Pete is what, 6 years into his gig in Seattle, this is the first time in his career he's had to physically, emotionally and psychologically manage the same core group of players for more than four years.

Yes he was at USC for more than four years, but it's college so players are gone in four years or less.

Is his rah rah go 1-0 every week's a championship week win forever always compete philosophy now falling on the deaf ears of these players who are tired of hearing it?

I hate to bring up Belicheat, but maybe the reason his team never loses that hunger is BECAUSE he churns that roster over and over because he knows keeping the same SB winning always successful players breeds complacency.

Click to expand...

Kind of maybe but I think it's probably deeper than just hunger alone with BB.

SeahawksFanForever":2dzjzhmb said:

I saw those tweets too. Very interesting conversation.

I found this quote interesting, talking about players in their 4th, 5th, 6th year, "I mean- & I do think Carroll should be himself - but if he walked into first meeting of the year - held up football "It's all about the ball" and that was the 6th time you had heard that "start a season" message?...of course some players would tune out a bit - it's human nature..."

Click to expand...

For sure, and I don't think Pete's changed one bit. I suspect the players still love him, respect him.

But is there now some falling on deaf ears and yeah yeah old man we've heard this all before thing going on? It is human nature that once you reach the mountain top, get paid, settle down and have families complacency sets in.........and Pete and his coaches are having a very hard time motivating this group of core players once again to dig deep.

Sounds like a made up problem. Would't even call it speculation.

Don't buy it. The team is just fine quarters 1-3. It's a 4th Q problem and finishing, plus the offensive line is disgusting.

cesame":ixqrhas9 said:

Sounds like a made up problem. Would't even call it speculation.

Don't buy it. The team is just fine quarters 1-3. It's a 4th Q problem and finishing, plus the offensive line is disgusting.

Click to expand...

Isn't that where the digging down deep comes into play? Isn't that purely will, motivation and focus.............all things coaches are responsible for?

There's no way I'm casting aside the fact that this core group of players isn't as hungry and motivated as they were in previous years. We do see spurts of it, but it's nowhere near the ferocious relentless tenacity pack of wild dogs mentality that other teams feared.

Isn't that on Pete and his staff?

I think complacency can and does set it.

The biggest theme about Carroll's program is "Always compete". Between him and Schneider, the players knew that an UDFA could come in and take their job if he out played them. You were never really secure.

Once you pay a guy, and he has a lot of guaranteed money, it's harder to cut him and/or sit him on the bench. Your job is now secure. The best analogy I can give about job security is the Federal Government. You have a group of people that are paid disproportionately to job duties, job performance, and are pretty much guaranteed to not get fired. The private sector routinely and grossly outperforms their government counterparts in literally every sector. They're more efficient, do more with less, and get paid less.

Belichick does churn his roster. It's simliar, but a smaller scope, than what Pete and John did to build this winning program. Players had to play their asses off because they could be gone in a heartbeat. To stay on the Patriots, you have to play your ass off, do things Belichick's way, and take a team friendly contract. You have to want to win more than your own personal goals.

All we've heard about in Seattle is player's personal goals, mostly about how much money they want. Pete doesn't do anything to dissuade that, so it's beginning to get it's own life. The only way I think this can change is if we crash and burn this year. We have mostly the same team that went to back to back Superbowls and won one. They like winning and are used to it. If this same group of guys fails to make the playoffs, I have to hope that they hate losing enough to start to listen to Pete and what got them there in the first place.

Sgt. Largent":3hc762ex said:

SeahawksFanForever":3hc762ex said:

I saw those tweets too. Very interesting conversation.

I found this quote interesting, talking about players in their 4th, 5th, 6th year, "I mean- & I do think Carroll should be himself - but if he walked into first meeting of the year - held up football "It's all about the ball" and that was the 6th time you had heard that "start a season" message?...of course some players would tune out a bit - it's human nature..."

Click to expand...

For sure, and I don't think Pete's changed one bit. I suspect the players still love him, respect him.

But is there now some falling on deaf ears and yeah yeah old man we've heard this all before thing going on? It is human nature that once you reach the mountain top, get paid, settle down and have families complacency sets in.........and Pete and his coaches are having a very hard time motivating this group of core players once again to dig deep.

Click to expand...

That's a great point there. I remember when I first got married, bought a house, had a kid, life was good. But then you have to watch out for the "7 Year Itch." If you only have 1 child, it's the "3.5 year itch." Because that's how long it takes for the joy of a newborn to wear off, 7 years if you have 2 kids. That's when marriages break down, and there could be something similar here.

So what motivates people who've reached the mountain top? Protecting that family and home. And the hunger to be immortal. Tom Brady is now immortal, and I think that most of the players on this team want to be immortal too. They want to be in the Hall of Fame, and they want to feel that unquestionable confidence again. That unassailable confidence one gets from going to 3 Superbowls in a row.

It's like Bill Parcells told his team after they won the Superbowl "Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it!" Well I think this team hungers for more than just one Lombardi, they hunger for immortality.

There are so many of these players on this team that can make the Hall of Fame, and not only that, if they make it to a 3rd Superbowl, they are set for life! They will have job offers from media outlets, TV networks, magazines, you name it.

When Kam was holding out, Ray Lewis said something that really caught my attention, "Realize that your individual legacy is going to be defined by the teams success, not by how much money you have in the bank."

Individual legacy, look at Ray Lewis "individual legacy" after a long, succesful career and winning 2 Superbowls. I think the players on this team want that. Remember Teddy Bruschi talking about being on the team plane on the way to their 3rd Superbowl and one of his teammates said "If we win this, we'll be a Dynasty!" And Teddy said it really hit him, "A Dynasty...."

Dynasty, Legacy, Generational Wealth. They all 3 go together. An individual legacy for a Seahawk would be buoyed by a 3rd straight Superbowl and they will make more money through their lifetime by reaching that goal, than any additional monies to their current contract will bring.

So chew on that Seahawks fans! Because I think this team is going to do everything in their power to reach that goal. Why? Because listening to Danny, Dave and Moore last night, Danny said there's been a dearth of tweets from Seahawks team members recently. My guess, they came to an agreement, it's time to focus and cut out all outside distractions. And Fred, running over Stop signs is not the Seahawk Way.

Sgt. Largent":2sk4mntg said:

cesame":2sk4mntg said:

Sounds like a made up problem. Would't even call it speculation.

Don't buy it. The team is just fine quarters 1-3. It's a 4th Q problem and finishing, plus the offensive line is disgusting.

Click to expand...

Isn't that where the digging down deep comes into play? Isn't that purely will, motivation and focus.............all things coaches are responsible for?

There's no way I'm casting aside the fact that this core group of players isn't as hungry and motivated as they were in previous years. We do see spurts of it, but it's nowhere near the ferocious relentless tenacity pack of wild dogs mentality that other teams feared.

Isn't that on Pete and his staff?

Click to expand...

If this was the case for the entire game I could MAYBE see this as a legitimate concern that the players are tuning Pete out

But it's not. The team isn't finishing in the 4th Q. The last two games they dominated two undefeated teams quarters 1-3. They come out fired up and took care of business. They just didn't finish

It's a mental thing right now. It's not a lack of effort or tuning Pete Carroll out because he's been here for 6 years.

Most might not agree but I really we believe we lack a true leader on the offense. Yeah, Russell Wilson is a good leader but isn't he more like "lead by example" type? First one to show up and last one to leave type? We miss a guy like Michael Robinson in the locker room. Talent isn't an issue for this team but they are just mentally not there.

It's an interesting thought, although last year was technically the first year Pete had to manage players after four years, and he got them a yard away from another ring.

cesame":3omrarbh said:

Sgt. Largent":3omrarbh said:

cesame":3omrarbh said:

Sounds like a made up problem. Would't even call it speculation.

Don't buy it. The team is just fine quarters 1-3. It's a 4th Q problem and finishing, plus the offensive line is disgusting.

Click to expand...

Isn't that where the digging down deep comes into play? Isn't that purely will, motivation and focus.............all things coaches are responsible for?

There's no way I'm casting aside the fact that this core group of players isn't as hungry and motivated as they were in previous years. We do see spurts of it, but it's nowhere near the ferocious relentless tenacity pack of wild dogs mentality that other teams feared.

Isn't that on Pete and his staff?

Click to expand...

If this was the case for the entire game I could MAYBE see this as a legitimate concern that the players are tuning Pete out

But it's not. The team isn't finishing in the 4th Q. The last two games they dominated two undefeated teams quarters 1-3. They come out fired up and took care of business. They just didn't finish

It's a mental thing right now. It's not a lack of effort or tuning Pete Carroll out because he's been here for 6 years.

Click to expand...

But that's the thing, this group has enough pride to continue to play at the same level, but now it's more of an inconsistent thing........rather than in the past where it was 100% step on the other team's neck out to prove everyone wrong.

Now they all got paid, what else is there to prove?

Again though, it's the coaching staff's job to find different ways to motivate the same players..........and Pete might not be the kind of coach that THINKS he needs to change up his style or philosophies, because all he's known for the past 15 years is success.

Being an Ohio State fan there is enough football history to draw a parallel to almost any situation. It reminds me of Tressel winning his 2nd year as HC of OSU with an understated but rock solid and driven team. His teams there after we're always competitive but ultimately it was hamstrung by not being fresh and adaptable to the game around him in other conferences.

Urban walks in, wins it in his 3Rd year and the chase for consistent titles is on again at OSU. I think that a fresh perspective or reinvention of talent utilization helps immensely at the collegiate level.

Maybe an outsider can be helpful at some point.

Sgt. Largent":12c1se5a said:

I hate to bring up Belicheat, but maybe the reason his team never loses that hunger is BECAUSE he churns that roster over and over because he knows keeping the same SB winning always successful players breeds complacency.

Click to expand...

Maybe part of the reason sure, the biggest reason is he's had Brady IMO. Look at the Colts teams with Manning, once Peyton went down they won 3 games. Look at the Packers with and without Rodgers.

Great quarterback play masks a lot of problems.

That said more on the point of hand.. Pete didn't forget how to coach. Just because they've lost games doesn't mean his rah rah approach is failing. They've had leads in every game for a reason. If this team were losing by 3 TD's every week then sure, this would be possibly valid.

I just think our depth is not what it was in recent years. The defense wears down. The offense is a mess. The role players we've lost haven't been adequately replaced and you're seeing ripple effects across the board.

SeahawksFanForever":2146kvtu said:

Most might not agree but I really we believe we lack a true leader on the offense. Yeah, Russell Wilson is a good leader but isn't he more like "lead by example" type? First one to show up and last one to leave type? We miss a guy like Michael Robinson in the locker room. Talent isn't an issue for this team but they are just mentally not there.

Click to expand...

The problem I have with Russ's apparent leadership style is he's always blowing sunshine up his teammate's arses. That will work until things go south. He needs to start using some tough love where needed.

I always get a kick out of some middle-aged couch potatoes talking about the world's best athletes not being motivated enough.

I've heard multiple ex players dismiss that on the radio or television. They remind us that these guys have been doing this since childhood, they live breathe and eat the game, they are professionals.

I heard some ex player say it was like if you're really really good at your job, one of the best 50 in the world at it - does it really make sense to say you're not motivated. You got there because your personality type is to be driven and relentless, all the time.

It's an absurd thing to say. But I guess it probably makes people feel better about the losses or something.

cesame":k6rqvezx said:

Sgt. Largent":k6rqvezx said:

cesame":k6rqvezx said:

Sounds like a made up problem. Would't even call it speculation.

Don't buy it. The team is just fine quarters 1-3. It's a 4th Q problem and finishing, plus the offensive line is disgusting.

Click to expand...

Isn't that where the digging down deep comes into play? Isn't that purely will, motivation and focus.............all things coaches are responsible for?

There's no way I'm casting aside the fact that this core group of players isn't as hungry and motivated as they were in previous years. We do see spurts of it, but it's nowhere near the ferocious relentless tenacity pack of wild dogs mentality that other teams feared.

Isn't that on Pete and his staff?

Click to expand...

If this was the case for the entire game I could MAYBE see this as a legitimate concern that the players are tuning Pete out

But it's not. The team isn't finishing in the 4th Q. The last two games they dominated two undefeated teams quarters 1-3. They come out fired up and took care of business. They just didn't finish

It's a mental thing right now. It's not a lack of effort or tuning Pete Carroll out because he's been here for 6 years.

Click to expand...

This x 1000. Complacency would not explain why so good for 70 percent of the game.

A new corner, no good nickel corner, a DC who is struggling to adjust his playcalling in the last quarter, those are real and tangible reasons for struggling.
When a rewatch and rewatch, I see lots of errors, but I don't see freelancing, I don't see any lack of effort. They aren't tuning out anyone.

Well, these are probably the same people who think they're losing because Wilson has a girlfriend. :?

HansGruber":1z9ic8ak said:

I always get a kick out of some middle-aged couch potatoes talking about the world's best athletes not being motivated enough.

I've heard multiple ex players dismiss that on the radio or television. They remind us that these guys have been doing this since childhood, they live breathe and eat the game, they are professionals.

I heard some ex player say it was like if you're really really good at your job, one of the best 50 in the world at it - does it really make sense to say you're not motivated. You got there because your personality type is to be driven and relentless, all the time.

It's an absurd thing to say. But I guess it probably makes people feel better about the losses or something.

Click to expand...

To be fair, Jay Cutler does exist

HansGruber":1x85owcv said:

I always get a kick out of some middle-aged couch potatoes talking about the world's best athletes not being motivated enough.

I've heard multiple ex players dismiss that on the radio or television. They remind us that these guys have been doing this since childhood, they live breathe and eat the game, they are professionals.

I heard some ex player say it was like if you're really really good at your job, one of the best 50 in the world at it - does it really make sense to say you're not motivated. You got there because your personality type is to be driven and relentless, all the time.

It's an absurd thing to say. But I guess it probably makes people feel better about the losses or something.

Click to expand...

Of course the players are dismissing being complacent. That would mean admitting they're not the man and player they think they are. In their mind they probably do think they haven't changed.

Sorry, but you can't convince me that these core players going from hungry rabid dogs obsessed with proving the haters and teams that passed on them in the draft to winning a SB, getting paid, being pulled in 20 different directions with new marriages, relationships, babies, and commercials isn't compromising their focus and energy for football.

I'm especially talking about the defense. You explain it, how did this group of 80% of the same all pro players under the same system go from one of the most elite D's of all time to an inconsistent mediocre soft giving up lead after lead?