1st Priority For The Seahawks

Well... Their's no indications that this is a priority, but I think the 1st priority for JS & PC should be renegotiating Jimmy Graham. Currently, he's slated to make 9 million this year and 10 million next year. If we released him, we'd clear 7 million in cap. He only has 2 million guaranteed left on his contract. I'd think we could renegotiate him to a 3 year deal with more guaranteed money at less of a cap hit this year if it was a backloaded contract.

3.5 Million Base and 3 Million Bonus this year - 1 Million in incentives
4 Million Base and 3 Million Bonus next year - 1 Million in incentives
5 Million Base and 2 Million Bonus in the 3rd year - 1 Million in Incentives

Even though Graham takes less on the year, the guaranteed money makes him essentially unreleasable until the 3rd year of the contract and he still gets paid what he'd get paid on his current contract. If JS & PC don't have enough confidence in Graham to guarantee him over the next 2 years, then holding onto him at 9 million this year and not clearing 7 million in cap is totally self defeating. You're paying a player that you don't have confidence in 9 million to hopefully play up to that contract this year.

A bit early in the process IMHO. I'd say let us see how his surgery and early rehab goes before we take any long term steps in this case. I'm sure we're all hopeful he can return and play for us again, although the nature of the injury makes it a big question how effective he can be. I get your point, but I'm not so sure that $7 mill is something we need to protect right now in one of our positions where we need some stability and production going forward. I don't really see that there is a deadline forcing us to put this move on the fast track just yet.

Graham tried to get listed as a WR so he could make more than the tag for a TE. I don't see him being eager to re-do his deal in a way that costs him money. Injury or no.

If he comes back from his injury in a way that limits his play, then yes, this becomes a priority.

Fixing the O-line should be priority 1,2,3, and 4. Enough with the experiment of converting D-linemen to O-linemen. Draft, trade, whatever......we see how great Russ can be with time to throw the ball.

Sports Hernia":1onr6hnb said:

Fixing the O-line should be priority 1,2,3, and 4. Enough with the experiment of converting D-linemen to O-linemen. Draft, trade, whatever......we see how great Russ can be with time to throw the ball.

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^ This.

I also am sick of seeing a barely legitimate Division 2 college OL let alone one that is supposed to be an NFL pro Line. They need to get serious about this while RW can still walk and run without a limp. He has taken enough of a beating.

Sports Hernia":7j1kodxt said:

Fixing the O-line should be priority 1,2,3, and 4.

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You sir, win the Internet for the day. Nothing is more true than that statement.

Wouldn't it save 9M against the cap since there would be no dead money?

http://overthecap.com/player/jimmy-graham/1503

massari":slmcghen said:

Wouldn't it save 9M against the cap since there would be no dead money?

http://overthecap.com/player/jimmy-graham/1503

Click to expand...

You are correct. However I really doubt Graham would be wiling to renegotiate so it would have to be an injury settlement or nothing. He'll be back next year for 9 mill.

Sports Hernia":3dk1jbxy said:

Fixing the O-line should be priority 1,2,3, and 4. Enough with the experiment of converting D-linemen to O-linemen. Draft, trade, whatever......we see how great Russ can be with time to throw the ball.

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I'll in with another "hell yes" to this statement.

Interior pass rush is 2nd on the list IMO. As for Jimmy, it's too early in his rehab process to go any direction I believe. If he's never the same physically, you don't want to add a year. If you need the option of releasing him to save cap space you don't want to add guaranteed money.

kf3339":20rqkc86 said:

Sports Hernia":20rqkc86 said:

Fixing the O-line should be priority 1,2,3, and 4. Enough with the experiment of converting D-linemen to O-linemen. Draft, trade, whatever......we see how great Russ can be with time to throw the ball.

Click to expand...

^ This.

I also am sick of seeing a barely legitimate Division 2 college OL let alone one that is supposed to be an NFL pro Line. They need to get serious about this while RW can still walk and run without a limp. He has taken enough of a beating.

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Yeah, his performance and record the last four years have just been totally awful.

As far as Graham, paying someone who made up 20% of the passing offense before his injury isn't a bad idea.

massari":2tzbbhvw said:

Wouldn't it save 9M against the cap since there would be no dead money?

http://overthecap.com/player/jimmy-graham/1503

Click to expand...

He counts for 9 Million against the cap this year, but he counts for 10 million against the cap next year and 2 million of it is a roster bonus, which I believe Roster bonuses are guaranteed money. I do believe that 2 million Roster Bonus would be forwarded to this year if we released him, which would only clear 7 million in cap. Unless a roster bonus isn't guaranteed money. Then we'd clear 9 mil this year and ten mil next year.

Someone stated that Jimmy would probably not be willing to renegotiate his contract. Well, that would tell me a lot about Jimmy Graham at that point. If he's not willing to renegotiate, I'd release him and clear the cap, so we can get players that are willing to make the necessary sacrifices for this team to put together a Super Bowl contending team. Him not being willing to renegotiate under the circumstances, tells me he's not a player I want on the team.

I see some saying O-Line is our first priority.... I say O-Line is our highest priority, not necessarily our 1st priority. In order to address putting together a better offensive line, making caproom to sign the guys we want to get on our offensive line is the first priority to getting the guys we want on our offensive line, which makes renegotiating the overpaid players the 1st priority.

We don't even know the extent of the injury and how it will affect his life/play.

Until then, we don't have to do squat with him.

Totally agree on O-Line. Constantly one of the worst in the league and it cost us dearly this year.

I posted this a while ago in another thread. According to this doctor, there's a very good chance Graham will never be the same. Here's what he said:

"As a reminder, Graham tore his patellar tendon. Historically, that’s been a devastating injury from which to return. Here’s what our own orthopedic surgeon, Dr Jeff Budoff, had to say about it:

Please see my Victor Cruz article from this past offseason. In short, it’s extremely difficult to return to full effectiveness from a patellar tendon tear. The odds are overwhelming that Graham’s explosiveness, acceleration, top speed and quickness will be permanently compromised, and he’ll probably never again be able to jump quite as high or change direction quite as fast. In all medical probability, he’ll never again be 100% the Jimmy Graham we knew.

Victor Cruz never made it back (at least yet) from his patellar tendon tear. Nor did Ryan Williams. Or Greg Childs. Jerod Mayo returned this year after a torn patellar tendon last year, but posted just 2.2 tackles per game, vs 5.7/game for his pre-injury career. Jim Leonhard started 53 games over four seasons prior to tearing his patellar tendon in 2011. He returned the following season, but only started 13 games over the next three years. Cadillac Williams tore a patellar tendon in back-to-back seasons (2007 and 2008) and returned to play each time, finally leaving the NFL after the 2011 season. But his performance never really recovered." http://rotoviz.com/2016/01/is-jimmy-graham-done/



So it sounds like there's a very good chance he'll never be the same again and will likely miss a significant amount of games this season. Seems like an easy decision. Release him and spend the money elsewhere.

firebee":31payn2h said:

massari":31payn2h said:

Wouldn't it save 9M against the cap since there would be no dead money?
http://overthecap.com/player/jimmy-graham/1503

Click to expand...

He counts for 9 Million against the cap this year, but he counts for 10 million against the cap next year and 2 million of it is a roster bonus, which I believe Roster bonuses are guaranteed money. I do believe that 2 million Roster Bonus would be forwarded to this year if we released him, which would only clear 7 million in cap. Unless a roster bonus isn't guaranteed money. Then we'd clear 9 mil this year and ten mil next year.

Someone stated that Jimmy would probably not be willing to renegotiate his contract. Well, that would tell me a lot about Jimmy Graham at that point. If he's not willing to renegotiate, I'd release him and clear the cap, so we can get players that are willing to make the necessary sacrifices for this team to put together a Super Bowl contending team. Him not being willing to renegotiate under the circumstances, tells me he's not a player I want on the team.

I see some saying O-Line is our first priority.... I say O-Line is our highest priority, not necessarily our 1st priority. In order to address putting together a better offensive line, making caproom to sign the guys we want to get on our offensive line is the first priority to getting the guys we want on our offensive line, which makes renegotiating the overpaid players the 1st priority.

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Incorrect. They become guaranteed if they get to a certain date in the contract. If Graham is cut right now 0 dead money would be incurred. but.....

The problem for the Seahawks with Graham is he got hurt. So if they were to cut him they would have to deal with an injury settlement. There are performance guarantees, and injury guarantees. It's why Kap had all those surgeries in the off-season, as an example. So if the 9ers try to cut him, he can get an injury settlement.

I think Seattle is thinking --> play out 2016 with Graham, and then re-evaluate him, and where the team is at in 2017.

I would be trying to trade Graham for a conditional 7th ASAP because I value the $19M in cap space more than Jimmy, especially how Seattle utilizes the TE position.

Fade":2cedqnbh said:

firebee":2cedqnbh said:

massari":2cedqnbh said:

Wouldn't it save 9M against the cap since there would be no dead money?
http://overthecap.com/player/jimmy-graham/1503

Click to expand...

He counts for 9 Million against the cap this year, but he counts for 10 million against the cap next year and 2 million of it is a roster bonus, which I believe Roster bonuses are guaranteed money. I do believe that 2 million Roster Bonus would be forwarded to this year if we released him, which would only clear 7 million in cap. Unless a roster bonus isn't guaranteed money. Then we'd clear 9 mil this year and ten mil next year.

Someone stated that Jimmy would probably not be willing to renegotiate his contract. Well, that would tell me a lot about Jimmy Graham at that point. If he's not willing to renegotiate, I'd release him and clear the cap, so we can get players that are willing to make the necessary sacrifices for this team to put together a Super Bowl contending team. Him not being willing to renegotiate under the circumstances, tells me he's not a player I want on the team.

I see some saying O-Line is our first priority.... I say O-Line is our highest priority, not necessarily our 1st priority. In order to address putting together a better offensive line, making caproom to sign the guys we want to get on our offensive line is the first priority to getting the guys we want on our offensive line, which makes renegotiating the overpaid players the 1st priority.

Click to expand...

Incorrect. They become guaranteed if they get to a certain date in the contract. If Graham is cut right now 0 dead money would be incurred. but.....

The problem for the Seahawks with Graham is he got hurt. So if they were to cut him they would have to deal with an injury settlement. There are performance guarantees, and injury guarantees. It's why Kap had all those surgeries in the off-season, as an example. So if the 9ers try to cut him, he can get an injury settlement.

I think Seattle is thinking --> play out 2016 with Graham, and then re-evaluate him, and where the team is at in 2017.

I would be trying to trade Graham for a conditional 7th ASAP because I value the $19M in cap space more than Jimmy, especially how Seattle utilizes the TE position.

Click to expand...

Well... You're definitely on the same line of thinking I am, which is why I suggest renegotiating him. While most think he wouldn't be open to renegotiating, I think the prospect of having 6-8 million guaranteed over the next 3 years would be incentive for him to consider taking less on his overall salary, so we could reduce his cap hit. If his play really declines this year, we'd be able to release him next year and his guaranteed money would cancel out his salary, making him a wash if we released him next year, but even then... he'd still cost us 2-3 million less on the cap hit next year than he would on his current contract if we kept him on the roster.

The smartest move imho is to play out this coming year and use it to evaluate Graham. There is no need to be hasty and to show all your cards. If Graham can not return fully to the player he once was then of course the FO will look to either cut ties or restructure his deal to fit the player he'll be able to be going forward. However if Graham is able to return to full strength and is able to get back to the player we originally traded for then there is no other Super Star level talent like his that you are going to be able to get for 9M per year and it would be foolish to mess that up.

There is just no reason for Pete and John to show their hand yet. The front office will at minimum wait until camps start where they'll get to see how he's recovering. More than likely though they will give him this whole next season and evaluate Graham's long term potential.

Fade":3rb320e0 said:

The problem for the Seahawks with Graham is he got hurt. So if they were to cut him they would have to deal with an injury settlement. There are performance guarantees, and injury guarantees. It's why Kap had all those surgeries in the off-season, as an example. So if the 9ers try to cut him, he can get an injury settlement.

I would be trying to trade Graham for a conditional 7th ASAP because I value the $19M in cap space more than Jimmy, especially how Seattle utilizes the TE position.

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It seems like there are endless amounts of rules for an NFL contract. Most complicated in all of sports it seems.

Yeah I guess trading him for a conditional 7th would be the best option, though there's probably a rule to prevent that too.

The first priority for the Hawks should be the ginja ninja. Yes that's right the punter. :mrgreen:

O-Line please!

Fade":1zx05sif said:

The problem for the Seahawks with Graham is he got hurt. So if they were to cut him they would have to deal with an injury settlement. There are performance guarantees, and injury guarantees. It's why Kap had all those surgeries in the off-season, as an example. So if the 9ers try to cut him, he can get an injury settlement.

Click to expand...

An injury settlement would only be a factor for Graham if he was not cleared to play in Week 1 of next year. He's supposedly on track to be fully healthy by week 1, so injury settlements don't factor into the equation.

Also, injury settlements have nothing to do with Kaepernick or his contract. His 2016 contract (for 12 million) becomes fully guaranteed on April 1, with an injury guarantee written into the contract. Injury settlements are for Kaepernick and the 49ers totally beside the pont,