The sky isn't falling in Seattle -- and here's why

Jville

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Just a little something to read.

Here's your latest reminder that writing off the Seahawks is stupid >>>> [urltargetblank]http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-your-latest-reminder-that-writing-off-the-seahawks-is-stupid/[/urltargetblank]
 

hawkfan68

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Good find Jville! Finally an article worth reading and non-drama to boot. :2thumbs:
Leave the soap opera storylines to daytime tv and WWE.
 

sdog1981

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We have a topic on this in the smack shack too if you want to go over there and drop some F bombs
 

Seahwkgal

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I love this article. It seems to me that the author is calling out all the Negative Nancy's(many of which frequent this forum).
 

Overseasfan

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We have one of the best defenses in the league (arguably #1 even), a great QB who is always at least top 10, plenty of weapons around him and an O-line that looks to improve quite a bit over last year.

Any team like that has a chance at the SB if the cards fall right (players reaching their usual level or above, limited amount of key injuries and a bit of luck).
 

SoulfishHawk

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Negativity is a choice. If you choose to think the worst, have at it.
This team is a contender, yet again.
 

Popeyejones

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FWIW, beyond some Hawks fans and the occasional 9ers fan who is way too stuck in the past, I don't think anyone actually thinks the sky is falling in Seattle, or the Seahawks are on the verge of falling.

It's a nice framing device for La Canfora for sure, but I don't think it's really based in reality (it's why he starts by asserting that there's some type of annual prediction about the Seahawks falling apart, but doesn't actually link to anyone ever making that claim -- maybe it's out there but I read a ton of national NFL news and I've seriously never seen it before).

Instead, I think the national impression of the Hawks is that they're a really good team which is in the Super Bowl hunt year in and year out, but in being really good they're also pretty fascinating as they really seem to ride the razor's edge of chaos.

It's a neat and interesting story because there's a belief that riding that edge is a big part of what makes them so great, but at the same time for national reporters and fans of every other team in the NFL, it seems like there's almost always *something* going on with the Hawks that's kinda nuts.

When people talk about that they're not talking about the Hawks being on the verge of collapse (again, I've literally never seen that argument made in print by a national reporter, but if someone said that once I'm sure I'll be linked to it), but rather, they're kind of speculating that if the Hawks ever DO decline at all it might be a factor in it.

That's not people being haters, it's people being fascinated about a thing that's actually pretty fascinating about a really, really good team like the Seahawks.

I think this is the key paragraph in La Canfora's piece:

Except, well, I'm not buying it. I'm not disputing that there isn't a unique and somewhat bizarre culture in Seattle, and that the protocols certainly wouldn't work everywhere. But it has worked well enough, long enough, for this group that I'm not betting against them yet.

After circling around the point and trying to write it away he basically owns up to agreeing that there IS a "unique and somewhat bizzarre culture in Seattle," but uses that admission to suggest that the unnamed everyone-else who acknowledges it do so to argue for the Hawks' impending demise. It's that second point -- that in talking about how atypically newsy the Hawks seem to always be people are actually predicting their demise -- which I think is a strawman. I simply just don't see that stuff. The CLOSEST I see to it is variations on the statement "things seem to still be kinda crazy up in Seattle, but it hasn't stopped them yet so there's no reason to think it will now."

Basically, I think La Canfora's trying to pitch his position as a contrarian position, but it's actually the standard position from which national reporters talk about the Seahawks.
 

semiahmoo

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If you have to try to convince others there isn't a problem...

There's a problem.

Hawks could be good this season.

To be great will require a remarkable transformation over the last couple seasons.

Lots of question marks that could go either way which makes it interesting at least.
 
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Jville

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Popeyejones":3miiu3pg said:
FWIW, beyond some Hawks fans and the occasional 9ers fan who is way too stuck in the past, I don't think anyone actually thinks the sky is falling in Seattle, or the Seahawks are on the verge of falling.

It's a nice framing device for La Canfora for sure, but I don't think it's really based in reality (it's why he starts by asserting that there's some type of annual prediction about the Seahawks falling apart, but doesn't actually link to anyone ever making that claim -- maybe it's out there but I read a ton of national NFL news and I've seriously never seen it before).

Instead, I think the national impression of the Hawks is that they're a really good team which is in the Super Bowl hunt year in and year out, but in being really good they're also pretty fascinating as they really seem to ride the razor's edge of chaos.

It's a neat and interesting story because there's a belief that riding that edge is a big part of what makes them so great, but at the same time for national reporters and fans of every other team in the NFL, it seems like there's almost always *something* going on with the Hawks that's kinda nuts.

When people talk about that they're not talking about the Hawks being on the verge of collapse (again, I've literally never seen that argument made in print by a national reporter, but if someone said that once I'm sure I'll be linked to it), but rather, they're kind of speculating that if the Hawks ever DO decline at all it might be a factor in it.

That's not people being haters, it's people being fascinated about a thing that's actually pretty fascinating about a really, really good team like the Seahawks.

I think this is the key paragraph in La Canfora's piece:

Except, well, I'm not buying it. I'm not disputing that there isn't a unique and somewhat bizarre culture in Seattle, and that the protocols certainly wouldn't work everywhere. But it has worked well enough, long enough, for this group that I'm not betting against them yet.

After circling around the point and trying to write it away he basically owns up to agreeing that there IS a "unique and somewhat bizzarre culture in Seattle," but uses that admission to suggest that the unnamed everyone-else who acknowledges it do so to argue for the Hawks' impending demise. It's that second point -- that in talking about how atypically newsy the Hawks seem to always be people are actually predicting their demise -- which I think is a strawman. I simply just don't see that stuff. The CLOSEST I see to it is variations on the statement "things seem to still be kinda crazy up in Seattle, but it hasn't stopped them yet so there's no reason to think it will now."

Basically, I think La Canfora's trying to pitch his position as a contrarian position, but it's actually the standard position from which national reporters talk about the Seahawks.

:177692: Nonsense. What you state is nothing more than a naked rebuttal written to dismiss the author's article and opinion.
 

Popeyejones

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Jville":hzplvkbh said:
:177692: Nonsense. What you state is nothing more than a naked rebuttal written to dismiss the author's article and opinion.

That is simply factually inaccurate.

If my post was too long and unclear I'll distill into three quick hits for you:

1) I agree with everything in the article, and only disagree with the rhetorical premise that everyone every year is sitting around and predicting the imminent downfall of the Seahawks. If that's true I seem to keep on missing it, and if true I think he should have made his claim stronger by linking to some examples of it rather than just declaring it.

2) Put another way, I AGREE with La Canfora's opinion that there's an atypical team culture in Seattle, but it hasn't stopped them yet and there's no reason to think it will stop them now. I only DISAGREE with him that this opinion we share is some sort of minority opinion. From what I read I think it's the pretty standard one.

3) From where I sit there is literally one thing that ALWAYS gets talked about in the national media as being the thing that could potentially hold back the Seahawks: their offensive line. That's the dominant narrative about what could stop the Hawks, and even that's not an imminent demise narrative. I simply don't see "this is the year that it all blows up" articles written about the Seahawks. I don't know what else to say about it.

Again though, if there's a litany of articles published every year about how each year is THE year that the Hawks will totally fall apart because of their team culture, maybe I somehow just keep missing them. If I'm wrong about that it shouldn't be too hard to disprove my impression with all of those links. If you want to take the minute or two to provide them THAT'S the good way to make me look wrong and stupid on this. :2thumbs:
 
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Jville

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The Jason La Canfora article stands on it's own merits.
 

Popeyejones

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:lol: :lol:

Well, okay.

As for his actual opinion on the Seahawks I agree with him, so I guess I think his actual opinion on them stands on its own merits too. :lol:

Part of that is because his opinion has logical consistency too: something has to change for something that's not a problem to become a major problem, and absent a major change we should assume it to continue as not being a problem.

As for his rhetorical premise, I think it's a click-baity strawman, and neither he nor anyone else seems too eager to provide any examples of that premise in action, so on that one point I'll stick with strawman until someone is kind enough to show me some examples of otherwise. ;)
 

scutterhawk

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semiahmoo":23f9kqmx said:
If you have to try to convince others there isn't a problem...

There's a problem.

Hawks could be good this season.

To be great will require a remarkable transformation over the last couple seasons.

Lots of question marks that could go either way which makes it interesting at least.

:roll: The "Problem" is, YOU are blowing a lot things out of proportion in your mind....And yet, even with a dinged up Russell Wilson for a whole Season, a crap running game, some shitty performances by a few greenhorn O-Linemen, and guys like Earl Thomas being injured... They're still finding ways to make it back to the playoffs, Year after Year....Go Figure eh? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

SoulfishHawk

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You could argue that last year was one of the best coaching jobs Pete has ever done. Not like he had nearly as much to work with.
 

Sgt. Largent

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CamanoIslandJQ":6s5kmloe said:

Isn't this fair?

We had some serious culture cracks in the armor last year, so no one knows if Richard is indeed back on board until the season starts and the stress begins.

It's easy for everyone to say the right things in the off season, it's when the games start mattering that we'll see if this group of players can come together again.
 

SoulfishHawk

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One thing is certain, anything bad that happens on the field clearly will be someone else's fault according to Sherm :lol:
 

Popeyejones

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Sgt. Largent":3cq0aczr said:
CamanoIslandJQ":3cq0aczr said:

Isn't this fair?

Ehh, I think it's a little unfair. There just haven't been that many NFL empires to begin with, and the Pats (and maaaybe the late 80s early 90s 9ers and 90s Cowboys) are the only NFL empires that have existed since the "players' coach" thing that "culture" is a code word for really started at all.

He objects to the label, but Tomlin has had a ton of sustained success as a players' coach, and so far Carroll has too.
 

Seahwkgal

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Popeye, I cannot compare teams before the salary cap era to ones that have had to exist in it. Crap, if the Seahawks had the richest owner then-who knows what a dynasty they would have had? All the dynasty teams before the cap kinda bought all the great talent and non of the other teams had a chance. This is why I do respect NE(even though they cheat :laugh: ). It is really, really hard and almost impossible for teams to create a dynasty with the salary cap. It comes down to coaching and culture in today's NFL, it really does.
 
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