Tre Flowers

Looking for thoughts on Tre Flowers - I know we are all sick of seeing the big plays that are given up via DPI - but sometimes he is in the right place - would you like to see him in our future plans as CB2? Or move on?

He's definitely incurring quite a bit of DPI. Seems like a he's in a 2nd year slump. He needs to play smarter than he has been lately

He HAS to learn to get his head turned. It’s going to be an automatic DPI if he doesn’t. He can be a perennial all pro if he learns that one thing.

I played DB in highschool back in the dinosaur days. Had a coach that said “you cannot defend when the ball is in the air if you cannot see the ball”

I do agree with that Sports Hernia - he always seems to be there if he just turns his head its great coverage, typically he is never totally out of position grabbing at the receiver - just always running through them!

hawkfan68":2qsgi57u said:

He's definitely incurring quite a bit of DPI. Seems like a he's in a 2nd year slump. He needs to play smarter than he has been lately

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Good point. Maybe he turns it around in year 3 like Griffin did.

Need a huge play but don't have an NFL caliber WR??

Throw deep toward Flowers and you have a 50-50 at a desperate grab DPI penalty. ukeface:

Sports Hernia":2azgzdt8 said:

He HAS to learn to get his head turned. It’s going to be an automatic DPI if he doesn’t. He can be a perennial all pro if he learns that one thing.

I played DB in highschool back in the dinosaur days. Had a coach that said “you cannot defend when the ball is in the air if you cannot see the ball”

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Which is wrong.

If you are beat, you only have one option and that is to focus on the WR's hands and try to separate them as he makes the catch. If you turn your head at the wrong time and miss the ball, that's an easy TD. Picture Tedric Thompson vs the Bengals.

DB's get beat all the time and have to resort to trying to salvage the play by at best getting the WR's hands off the ball or at worst tackling the guy so he can't gain yards after catch.

Sherman was so good at turning his head and locating the ball that we have all been spoiled. Most DB's are not that talented and have to rely on other skills to disrupt passes.

Flowers is still a sophomore player making a transition from safety to boundary corner. He's fine as a CB2. Still needs to get timing down but he is covering guys fairly well. I think they only threw deep a couple of times and their WR's really didn't hurt us.

I still have confidence in Tre and believe his upside is better than Griffen's.

He had a bad game, it happens. They won the game and he'll learn from it.
Go Hawks, Go Tre!

Sports Hernia":1hkrh4op said:

He HAS to learn to get his head turned. It’s going to be an automatic DPI if he doesn’t. He can be a perennial all pro if he learns that one thing.

I played DB in highschool back in the dinosaur days. Had a coach that said “you cannot defend if you cannot see the ball”

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If he figures out how to play this way he will be one of the best CB's in the league. He's fast, tall, with long arms. The long DPI yesterday could have easily been an interception. Just like if DK Metcalf improves his hands (yesterday was a break out game for him) he will be a monster. Have a good feeling about both.

II think you gotta be open to looking for his replacement. I'm not a Flowers hater but I don't know that the ceiling is much higher on him. I think what you see is what you're going to get. I don't see this season as a 2nd year slump. Shaqhad a breakout rookie season, came back 2nd year thinking it's gonna be better and wasn't up to snuff physically and got worked. He got into shape and rededicated himself to being a pro and the results came. Flowers isn't doing anything differently he's just got limitations. He's never going to be fast so guys get past him and he starts chasing and loses the ball. He's also constantly playing off in short situations for the same reason, he's afraid they get past him so he keeps them in front but those short yards are almost always there. He isn't the most pressing replacement but I don't think he's got it locked down either.

I may be wrong, but I believe Flowers was ranked something like 110/121 best CB and Griffin was ranked 6/121. It seems like the two flip flopped from last year, which is pretty bizarre. I really hope Flowers can be the answer at CB2, but it might be time to draft or bring in another CB.

I agree that we might do well to find not just 1, but 2 new corner prospects. Having said that I really like the potential I see in Flowers. He certainly has some technique to learn, but he could be great when he does that. Unless I am mistaken corner is a new position for him since leaving college?

He's a good young player, and improving.

He's clearly part of the team's plans going forward.

We all should remember this player was a SS in college and has made a position change to CB. He'll have good games and bad games but the trend with him is positive.

In case anyone wonders it is hard to make a position change and he's not doing badly for his second year.

I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.

Hawknballs":1lvust8q said:

I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.

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Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.

Flowers will always be a fringe player in the sense of, there is just enough glimmer of talent there to keep the coaches wanting to try him out, but it's wrapped up in mistakes and bungled opportunities.

Sgt. Largent":py89kpb3 said:

Hawknballs":py89kpb3 said:

I think he needs another year. We've been spoiled by seeing CBs of all skill level come in here and thrive because the rest of the defense has been solid, but lately we don't have that so these young guys are exposed a little more.

My only criticism for flowers is - when you've obviously committed blatant PI, stop looking around and using body language like you're being victimized by the refs. If you can't admit your own faults you won't improve.

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Two full years as a starter is long enough to evaluate a player.

Flower's IMO is not the answer at CB for us, not the way we like to play defense. He's a bottom 10 CB in the league, and that position needs to be addressed and upgraded if possible next year.

He not only gets too many penalties, he doesn't make plays either. It'd be worth putting up with the penalties if he had 6-7 interceptions a year, or damn dude just make a damn play on the ball once in a while.

We gotta ride him the rest of the way, but I'd be shocked if Pete and John are OK with Flowers as our starting CB if they have the ability to upgrade his position next off season either through the draft or free agency.

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I disagree 100%. Two years is enough time to see? Most players pick it up by year 4. In all fairness most players in the 90s didnt start for 3 years. Ppl give up on players too quick anymore. Its instant gratification on what the world has become.

Tre is struggling this yr. 64th best CB. However last yr he was 2nd best run stuffing cb in the whole league. Last year Shaq was 111th out of 112 cb and this year he is top 20.

Tre if given time will end with more interceptions in his career then shaq.

I think people forget that Pete likes his CB's to tackle almost as much as he likes them to cover wide receivers. Flowers is a solid tackler and has made some big run stops this year. That counts.

Filling your secondary with stars isn't the best way to build your team. It's all about a stud DL. We don't need to to worry about CB2 as much as we need to worry about DE1 and DE2 and DT3.

And to me, Flowers reminds me a lot of Brandon Browner. Physical corner that gets too many penalties. It's just Browner played when you could still grab WR's and get away with it.

HawkRiderFan":1wn16a0f said:

hawkfan68":1wn16a0f said:

He's definitely incurring quite a bit of DPI. Seems like a he's in a 2nd year slump. He needs to play smarter than he has been lately

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Good point. Maybe he turns it around in year 3 like Griffin did.

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This. I don’t think you move on from him until after his 3rd season if there is no improvement or a regression. We all go spoiled with Sherman here and our current DB’s are still growing.