Question for our Niner fan friends

Laloosh

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Hey guys, one thing that stuck out to me in York's presser on Tomsula's firing were his comments about free agency.

My question is, do you think they dive into the free agent pool this off-season? If so, what positions do you think they'll really be looking to upgrade?

(not giving you shit btw, genuinely curious)

About the 10:00 mark in the video.

[youtube]rrcLUN758P0[/youtube]
 

2_0_6

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So he is the CEO of the Niners but doesn't know what draft pick they have upcoming, and isn't sure about the cap space?

:roll:
 

rideaducati

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Hawk_Nation":2hl2fm2u said:
So he is the CEO of the Niners but doesn't know what draft pick they have upcoming, and isn't sure about the cap space?

:roll:

Baalke has built a championship team?
 

rlkats

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While I am a Niner fan I am in the process of not giving two shits what that farce said. But to answer the question. I hope its Dline, pass rush and a good back up to Hyde. Everything else Draft.
 

5_Golden_Rings

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No. Jed York's credibility is utterly blown, and there's more. I suspect that Tomsula was thrust upon Baalke by Jed (remember, they all but hired Gase, but at the last instant demanded Gase take Tomsula as defensive coordinator). If that's true, I suspect Jed has promised to leave all football decisions to Baalke, which tells me that even if Jed thinks it's a good idea to spend, Baalke won't. He'll just draft people no one has heard of instead.

Besides, The Prince of York is on the hook for 14 million for Tomsula. I'm sure he wants to go cheap now. They will spend the minimum that they can.
 

Popeyejones

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Laloosh":33iqit5t said:
Hey guys, one thing that stuck out to me in York's presser on Tomsula's firing were his comments about free agency.

My question is, do you think they dive into the free agent pool this off-season? If so, what positions do you think they'll really be looking to upgrade?

(not giving you shit btw, genuinely curious)

For sure. Long post to follow, but hopefully the detail makes it worth your while. :th2thumbs:

As for if the 9ers dive into FA, I think Baalke's comments from a few days after Yorks are a little more instructive than Yorks. Baalke's response when asked about York having noted how much room they had to spend in FA:

“Well, the one thing that I’m convinced of is you can’t buy championships. You earn championships and there’s a process to it. You build through the draft. You supplement your roster with free agency. You take care of your own guys because that creates ownership on their part. So, to say we’re going to go out and because we have X number of dollars to spend, how are we going to spend that? Are you going to spend that on two players or are you going to spend that on 12 players? I don’t know. I don’t have that answer right now nor would I from a competitive standpoint share that. But, there’s different ways to use that money. We just have to make sure we use it correctly.”

This is basically more developed answer that's a variation on what he said when asked this same question last year (quoted below):

“Just because you have money doesn’t mean you’re going to spend it foolishly,” Baalke said. “You have to address needs and we’re into free agency now. Very seldom, at least in my tenure, have we delved into the early stages of free agency. We did it this year with Torrey (Smith). Right now, we’re still in that process. As you see every day, somebody else is getting cut. There’s a trickle-down effect. It’s always a fluid situation.”

The thing about York is he's a child and reads all the criticism about himself (which he basically owned up to in that press conference). So, York is going to talk about how willing to spend he is (and over-promising on that) because it hurts his feelings that people say he is cheap, whereas Baalke is the adult in the relationship and actually has an internal compass.

As for if they'll be big players this year, my two answers are A) I don't think so (although perhaps a bit bigger than in years past), and B) I really hope not.

On "A": Regardless of if 9ers fans like it or not, Baalke signed a contract extension last year and is relatively safe in his job right now. Baalke and Paraag (who still is in charge of contracts and salary cap) also, wisely IMO, are well known for setting an internal value on players and not getting into (IMO almost always irrational) bidding wars over them. I think the 49ers will dip their toes in for the top FAs, be more serious contenders for the 1B/2A FAs, and do what they've always done and take low-risk flyers at the back-end of the market on guys who slipped through cracks. For all his sins, I think Baalke is smart enough to realize that it's a fool's errand to try to turn a bad team into a good team through being the "winner" of free agency.

On "B": If Baalke breaks from the way he does things and goes after multiple 1A and 1B free agents it either means he's worried about his job security and trying to make a splash, or he's been beaten down by the last two years and is changing his approach. This is really a doomsday scenario for me as a fan, as it's generally a really bad strategy, and it can also take years to undue these types of mistakes.

On What Positions They'll Be Looking to Upgrade:

The 49ers, in order of importance IMO, need: 1) QB , 2) Pass Rushing OLB, 3) OG, 4) 3-4 DE or NT (depending on Williams) 5 ILB, 6) TE, 7) WR and 8) backup HB

I'd expect them to target #2 (pass rushing OLB) and #4 (3-4 DE) with names you've heard of at the 1B/2A area of the market, and use the draft and back of the market for everything else.

Under Baalke the 9ers in most years have brought in at most one FA you've heard of for a bottom-half of the Top 10 contract with some outs in it (e.g. Whitner, Bethea, Torrey Smith). I'd definitely expect them to do that this year.

Two names to watch for them (one that you know very, very well).

Bruce Irvin: I always rolled my eyes when people said the Seahawks reached for Irvin, because if they hadn't taken him the 9ers would have. Unless he's dead set on going to the Falcons, the 9ers will be players for him. What they can offer that Quinn can't is that they're going to want to use him as a pass rusher than primarily as a jack-of-all-trades. They desperately need someone on the opposite side from Lynch, and I would guess Irvin is their #1 target. They won't get in a bidding war for him with the Falcons, but IMO his agent is going to be the first call they make.

Derek Wolfe: Despite being one of the best 3-4 DEs in the NFL this year, Wolfe is a little under the radar because 1) he missed all of last year due to injuring his spinal cord against the Hawks in preseason last year, and 2) served a 4 game suspension for PEDs at the start of this year (in relation to his recovery; people have tended to believe him that it really was a mistake).

These are both TOTALLY the type of guys that Baalke would give top 6-10 money to, which will cause everyone to say they overpaid a bit, and then a week later the details come out and it's pretty clear the 9ers built in outs for themselves after two years of the contract.

As for the other positions, I think they'll target all of them except for QB and backup HB in FA, but closer toward the back of the market, and with redundancies too. Baalke really despises drafting for need, and always drafts for 2-3 years out (why the 2012 draft and the picks he did miss on in 2013 didn't really hurt until this year -- save for QB those misses are basically the list of things the 9ers now need). I'd look for the 9ers to be a little bit more active in FA (i.e. maybe even 2 1B/2A players coming in, and a cavalry of back-of-the-market guys on one and two year prove-it deals), but definitely not to lose in FA by "winning it."

I really, really hope that 9ers fans who want the team to be big players for guys like Sheldon Richardson and Alex Mack will end up being resentful, disappointed, and insisting the team is "cheap." If those fans are happy I think the 9ers will have really blown this offseason, and this draft and FA session is probably the most important one in Baake's tenure.
 

Trenchbroom

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Popeyejones":2ufm71qz said:
Bruce Irvin: I always rolled my eyes when people said the Seahawks reached for Irvin, because if they hadn't taken him the 9ers would have. Unless he's dead set on going to the Falcons, the 9ers will be players for him. What they can offer that Quinn can't is that they're going to want to use him as a pass rusher than primarily as a jack-of-all-trades. They desperately need someone on the opposite side from Lynch, and I would guess Irvin is their #1 target. They won't get in a bidding war for him with the Falcons, but IMO his agent is going to be the first call they make. .

Like Bruce, expect him to leave. Have to admit it would be kinda fun to have him turncoat us. :)
 

Popeyejones

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Trenchbroom":lnetfzz9 said:
Like Bruce, expect him to leave. Have to admit it would be kinda fun to have him turncoat us. :)

Yeah, Bruce is precisely that type of above-average starter (see: Golden Tate; Byron Maxwell: etc.) that good teams that have to deal with the salary cap have to always be letting go because bad teams who don't have their own great players to pay can afford.

It's the ceaseless pilfering of these types of guys (and difficulty in replacing them) that causes so many teams to have long stretches as contenders without being true dynasties, IMO. It can be and is done obviously, but it's what makes it so damn hard.
 
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Laloosh

Laloosh

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Appreciate the detailed post, Popeye.

I hear you on Bruce. He favors pass rushing (by far) over the rest of it and I think he'd jump at the chance of being a 3-4 OLB rushing the passer.

Do they bring Bush back next season or try to find another 3rd down back? Think Gabbert winds up starting for you guys again?
 

Popeyejones

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^^^^

RB: Nah, Bush is 100% done. The overvaluing of RBs is one of the few things I HATE about Baalke though. As the 9ers learned this year with Draughn and Harris (and the Seahawks found with Rawls, and 4 or 5 other teams seem to find every year too) good RB play can be found on the scrap heap more than any other position. Yet Baalke continually invests draft capital in RBs. It's infuriating. Basically, I think the key to that position is to have one guy you like, and then just overload the 90 with a ton of guys that you've spent nothing on and let them battle it out in practice and the pre-season. Baalke won't bring back Bush, but I'm guessing he will once again dumbly put more resources into the position.

QB: Three scenarios here:

1) It's a mistake to assume Kap is gone. I think they want him gone, but his salary is guaranteed for injury come April 1 and with his laundry list of late and out-of-the-blue surgeries they might be stuck with him, or will have to trade him rather than cut him (assuming there's a partner for that). I think people also mistakenly overestimate how much he's going to cost them next year. They have way more cap room than they're going to use (if they're smart), and with the credits from him being on IR this year he'll cost them 10.5 million on the cap next year. Because of those two factors he might get one more shot (and next year it won't matter anyway, so why the heck not). His challenge is going to be gaining trust in the locker room again.

2) The 9ers lose out on the top two QBs in the draft and go with Gabbert as a bridge QB (to go with Shanahan their bridge coach*) while taking someone like Wentz to groom for the future. I don't hate this. I don't think Gabbert is going to win games for you, but you can win with Gabbert. The 9ers aren't a good enough team to win with Gabbert, but I think he's actually decent enough to be a below-average starter.

3) Hue Jackson overestimates his QB whispering ability and takes Paxton Lynch (the all-upside, high ceiling but low floor QB) at #2, leaving Goff (the safer lower ceiling higher floor QB) for the 9ers to take at #7. Even in this scenario, there's literally no reason to throw Goff into the fire, so they bulk up his skinny ass and get him acclimated for a year (or at least 8 games until the flames of the dumpster fire have gotten too high to ignore) and still go with Gabbert.

Not that I'm excited about it, but unlike a lot of 9ers fans I see there still being a good chance of Kap being the starting QB come Week 1 next year, particularly if they can't trade him. I'd say 33% chance Kap, 67% Gabbert. We're basically talking RGIII and Cousins here, which if nothing will be a HILARIOUS situation for Mike Shanahan to stumble back into.



*I know people aren't keeping tabs on this stuff, but back before any of Hue Jackson's interviews were even scheduled I had posted here about how I prefered Shanahan over all the available coaching options. I could be very wrong about that, but so far things have been going well for me. :lol:
 

Seahawkfan80

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Do you think, Popeye, that it will be a 2 or more year process for your team, or will they try to burn all the talent they can to make it work in one year? Remember that it took the hawks 3 years to get all the pieces in place.

Thanks for the insight in this thread.
 

Popeyejones

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^^^ For sure. Just glad to prattle on way too long about my team for a few posts. :lol:

I think it's realistically, best-case scenario, going to be a 2-3 year process. To be fair even if you play it right a 2-3 year process can still end up as 10-15 year process but I really think that wrongly trying to make a 2-3 year process into a 1 year process does way more damage than it's worth.

My fear is that York is impatient enough or Baalke is delusional enough (or both) to turn what best-case-scenario is a 2-3 year process into a best-case-scenario 5-6 year process to get back to where they are right now (2-3 years to realize how much they screwed themselves over due to a lack of patience, and another 2-3 years to undue all of those mistakes).

Giving an admittedly great player like Sheldon Richardson way too much money in order to win a news cycle, or bringing in a guy like Kelly who to work needs very specific things that don't port well is essentially acting as if your 2-3 year process can be fixed in a year.

That's a huge mistake. As a fan, I'm in this for the long haul, and more than happy to endure some more 5-11s that are heading in the right direction than getting trapped in the 8-8 doldrums or just completely and utterly screwing over the future to try (and almost definitely fail) to go 10-6 next year.

The thing about the 9ers isn't that they were 5-11 last year, it's that they overperformed to get to 5-11. If York and Baalke really believe this is a quick turn around I'm going to be in my 40s by the time I have even a shot of something to root for again.
 
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