So, this is going to get interesting. I think we all understand that college recruiting is gross but I think basketball is the worst of the worst, with middle men, handlers, AAU coaches, etc, etc. 10 people arrested including adidas global reps for steering kids to certain schools. 4 assistant coaches arrested, but interestingly none of them were from adidas schools.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... corruption

This is a big deal. This is not just my school is now on probation, these are crimes that can carry sentences of up to 20 years in prison.

Explains how USC got 2 of Seattle's best high school recruits or how Arizona always brings in a top 3 class every year.


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Apparently this is two separate situations. One involving Adidas employees paying family members of high schoolers to direct the kids to schools that were sponsored by Adidas and another where the college coaches were taking bribes to steer their college players to specific financial/business managers.

Cool, this needed to happen. Would like an expaded probe into college football as well.

I got alerts on this story earlier this morning.

Very few details were available at the time.

Will definitely be interesting to see play out, and will most likely have a far reaching "ripple effect"

The fallout has begun and heads are starting to roll.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... jurich-out

They've now subpoenaed Nike documents. By the time this is done Oregon State will be the only clean program in the country.

Dan Dorcek (espn) estimated that about 100 basketball programs (out of 320) would end up caught up in this.

JSeahawks wrote:Dan Dorcek (espn) estimated that about 100 basketball programs (out of 320) would end up caught up in this.

Whoa. This is going to get ugly.

Outstanding. Arrest them all. They use these kids and throw them away like trash. Yeah, most of the D1 kids can get a "free" education.....but that is a pittance compared to what everyone else in the business is making. If they can afford to give some kid's family $100k, then how much are they really making?

JSeahawks wrote:They've now subpoenaed Nike documents. By the time this is done Oregon State will be the only clean program in the country.

UW should come out clean,they suck enough right?

IndyHawk wrote:

JSeahawks wrote:They've now subpoenaed Nike documents. By the time this is done Oregon State will be the only clean program in the country.

UW should come out clean,they suck enough right?

We'll see. Fultz and the Porters were both part of the Nike grass roots program that just got subpoenaed. Which doesn't automatically mean anything was dirty but I'm sure they'll be looked at. The Porters have the family connection but I'll admit to wondering how a kid from Maryland and one of the top recruits in the country (Fultz) ended up committing to a below average program on the west coast. In all honesty, I just assume everybody in college basketball, even more so than football, is dirty to a certain extent. At least if UW gets found guilty of something they'll be able to say it was from the old staff which is now gone.

Yeah this isn't anything really new, but it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Guys are going to roll and talk to get out of charges or less time. I wonder if Sean Miller will get fired, I think it looks pretty bad for him. Here is an article which talks about the specifics of Arizona landing one of their big recruits.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... richardson

I'm pretty sure Romar and UW are clean. The guy I would be a little worried about is our former assistant coach Chillious, just because he was very involved in AAU and he was a Nike guy. Porter was going to come here because his dad was given the assistant coaching job. Fultz came here because UW was the first to recruit him, before he ever became big. Now that all this news has come out, specifically about Arizona, I wonder if we lost out on certain recruits because of money. Trier and Aaron Gordon were considered near sure things to come to UW, and we lost both to Arizona. I'm curious about the two local Seattle kids, J'rron Brooks and Kevin Porter who are both signed to go to USC next season. USC's assistant was one of the original names that was brought up. With these schools likely facing punishment, I'm hoping they come back home to UW. In a weird way, if UW does in fact come back clean, this could help them out as we already know two Pac-12 schools are likely going to be in trouble, and wouldn't surprise me if Oregon is another.

Hawk-Lock wrote:Yeah this isn't anything really new, but it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Guys are going to roll and talk to get out of charges or less time. I wonder if Sean Miller will get fired, I think it looks pretty bad for him. Here is an article which talks about the specifics of Arizona landing one of their big recruits.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... richardson

I'm pretty sure Romar and UW are clean. The guy I would be a little worried about is our former assistant coach Chillious, just because he was very involved in AAU and he was a Nike guy. Porter was going to come here because his dad was given the assistant coaching job. Fultz came here because UW was the first to recruit him, before he ever became big. Now that all this news has come out, specifically about Arizona, I wonder if we lost out on certain recruits because of money. Trier and Aaron Gordon were considered near sure things to come to UW, and we lost both to Arizona. I'm curious about the two local Seattle kids, J'rron Brooks and Kevin Porter who are both signed to go to USC next season. USC's assistant was one of the original names that was brought up. With these schools likely facing punishment, I'm hoping they come back home to UW. In a weird way, if UW does in fact come back clean, this could help them out as we already know two Pac-12 schools are likely going to be in trouble, and wouldn't surprise me if Oregon is another.

This thing isn't going to sink an individual school, it's going to sink the entire NCAA.

But it won't. The FBI is now doing the NCAAs dirty work. This whole thing is just unraveling the darker side of recruiting that the head coaches simply pretend to be oblivious to. The NCAA will come in late with suspensions. But the system won't change (pay the athletes, let them negotiate on their own behalf)

Not sure why UW is involved in this thread (but J didn't miss the chance). Arizonas situation is quite telling. They're brought into this as a third party, with an rep and a coach discussing they would need to this much money to beat UofAs offer to a player. To me... that demonstrates how open this business really is.

Here's a decent article about how this whole situation started years ago, with the blessing of the NCAA members.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/co ... 711098001/

Uncle Si wrote:But it won't. The FBI is now doing the NCAAs dirty work. This whole thing is just unraveling the darker side of recruiting that the head coaches simply pretend to be oblivious to. The NCAA will come in late with suspensions. But the system won't change (pay the athletes, let them negotiate on their own behalf)

Not sure why UW is involved in this thread (but J didn't miss the chance). Arizonas situation is quite telling. They're brought into this as a third party, with an rep and a coach discussing they would need to this much money to beat UofAs offer to a player. To me... that demonstrates how open this business really is.

JS was just answering my post in which I used UW.

IndyHawk wrote:

Uncle Si wrote:But it won't. The FBI is now doing the NCAAs dirty work. This whole thing is just unraveling the darker side of recruiting that the head coaches simply pretend to be oblivious to. The NCAA will come in late with suspensions. But the system won't change (pay the athletes, let them negotiate on their own behalf)

Not sure why UW is involved in this thread (but J didn't miss the chance). Arizonas situation is quite telling. They're brought into this as a third party, with an rep and a coach discussing they would need to this much money to beat UofAs offer to a player. To me... that demonstrates how open this business really is.

JS was just answering my post in which I used UW.

Yes, I demand an apology from Uncle Si for dragging my name through the mud!

Ok ok.. the shot at J was a little uncalled for. My point though was that the Huskies hadn't even been hinted as involved.

no shot at that POS is ever uncalled for.

Sponsors hirer representatives early on for targeted kids, these Elite teams in Baseball, Soccer, Basketball where there are all stars playing and getting perks like travel and uniforms and gear start earlier and earlier, they many times forbid kids to participate in other sports at all and commit to one all start team or another now year round, then as they get into high school AIA teams during off season from school camps begin, more perks, red carpet treatment for the kids showing more growth, like meeting Professionals and going to games, locker rooms setting up some personal coaching at Professional levels by players. Maybe a good job to account for the new money that's being filtered to keep these kids enrolled in the programs they want them in. If the kid is a real deal prospect the set up starts to push towards a school subtlety and openly on one level within the rules, under the table more money and promises being funneled by alumni. Then you get to the blackmail about the money given and the perks and if they don't sign they will lose all of it and be black balled unless paid back or a story leaked in some way removing college eligibility, Basketball and Football players mostly, Baseball have other options they can turn pro early, but still have that pressure to own up to who paved the way with agents and representation.

It's crooked and getting worse, 11 year old kids being targeted to play a sport and using parents desire and money to take and remove their options and in fact being able to be a kid.

It's like parents of Child Actors and Singers, runway models etc.

JSeahawks wrote:

IndyHawk wrote:

Uncle Si wrote:But it won't. The FBI is now doing the NCAAs dirty work. This whole thing is just unraveling the darker side of recruiting that the head coaches simply pretend to be oblivious to. The NCAA will come in late with suspensions. But the system won't change (pay the athletes, let them negotiate on their own behalf)

Not sure why UW is involved in this thread (but J didn't miss the chance). Arizonas situation is quite telling. They're brought into this as a third party, with an rep and a coach discussing they would need to this much money to beat UofAs offer to a player. To me... that demonstrates how open this business really is.

JS was just answering my post in which I used UW.

Yes, I demand an apology from Uncle Si for dragging my name through the mud!

You're from Oregon. It's drug through the mud by association.

Its getting closer to Armageddon.

“This goes a lot deeper in college basketball than four corrupt assistant coaches,” said a source who has been briefed on the details of the case. “When this all comes out, Hall of Fame coaches should be scared, lottery picks won’t be eligible to play and almost half of the 16 teams the NCAA showed on its initial NCAA tournament show this weekend should worry about their appearance being vacated.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-colleg ... 17174.html

Fultz implicated, said to have taken 10k.

https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-fede ... 38484.html

CPHawk wrote:Fultz implicated, said to have taken 10k.

https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-fede ... 38484.html

Cheap bastards.

This is not Armageddon.

Kids taking small amounts of money (mostly as loans) by recruiters under massive pressure to deliver while the NCAA has the audacity to shame the “system” they created.

College sports suck. The kids deserve better.

Yeah sucks to see Fultz's name on there, i guess they can vacate our awful 9 win season.

I'm not sure how much impact this will really have. Seasons are going to get vacated, but who cares about that. Unless you won a championship, who cares. And even if you did win a conference or a championship, does having it vacated really mean that much. If we had our SB vacated, we all know we still won the SB that season.

I don't see the programs being punished much because these are individual players and families taking money from an agent. I'm more interested in what will happen to the active players named on the list. That's the only big impact I can see this having.

Uncle Si wrote:This is not Armageddon.

Kids taking small amounts of money (mostly as loans) by recruiters under massive pressure to deliver while the NCAA has the audacity to shame the “system” they created.

College sports suck. The kids deserve better.

Yea, as long as it’s just shoe companies paying kids I don’t think it’s that big of a story, if it gets to the point of schools or coaches directly paying kids or their families then it becomes a much bigger story for me.

Although in all honesty I don’t care about any of this and wouldn’t care if it was just swept under the rug. Cheating in recruiting? Duh.

Right... that’s the point. All of these stories are simply products of a horribly imbalanced system that purports to celebrate student athletics but really just prints cash for its coffers (I imagine a Scrooge McDuckian swimming pool underneath each university’s library filled with gold coin)

No amount of punishment to players, recruits or schools will disrupt the flow. Didn’t Calipari lose all his titles at UMass and Memphis? Here he is at Kentucky.

The FBI needs to tackle the cartel, not the mules.

Arizona head coach Sean Miller caught by The Wire discussing a hundred thousand dollar payment to a player. He gone! A win for McNulty.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... estigation

Looks like it's all but over for Sean Miller at Arizona. Next head coach of the Wildcats, Lorenzo Romar. Who would have thought.

Duke, UNC, and other notables also implicated. I think what they do is just blame the system. Claim everyone is doing it therefore no big punishments. Its the systems fault not the cheaters. Maybe I'm jaded but after seeing the way the NCAA goes hard after the little guys and just hammers them and then turns around and lets the big boys off with a slap on the wrist or even nothing at all as in the UNC scandal. its happened repeatedly over the years I expect nothing different here.

Natethegreat wrote:Duke, UNC, and other notables also implicated. I think what they do is just blame the system. Claim everyone is doing it therefore no big punishments. Its the systems fault not the cheaters. Maybe I'm jaded but after seeing the way the NCAA goes hard after the little guys and just hammers them and then turns around and lets the big boys off with a slap on the wrist or even nothing at all as in the UNC scandal. its happened repeatedly over the years I expect nothing different here.

Duke?Notre Dame?
My goodness...
Never thought these two would be on any list..
Then you got Lonzo saying pay them..A free education that sets you for life is not enough?
I am disgusted.

IndyHawk wrote:

Natethegreat wrote:Duke, UNC, and other notables also implicated. I think what they do is just blame the system. Claim everyone is doing it therefore no big punishments. Its the systems fault not the cheaters. Maybe I'm jaded but after seeing the way the NCAA goes hard after the little guys and just hammers them and then turns around and lets the big boys off with a slap on the wrist or even nothing at all as in the UNC scandal. its happened repeatedly over the years I expect nothing different here.

Duke?Notre Dame?
My goodness...
Never thought these two would be on any list..
Then you got Lonzo saying pay them..A free education that sets you for life is not enough?
I am disgusted.

No... its not enough.

This isnt greed by the players. This is greed by the institution. There is so much money being made, and thus on the line, that it actually makes sense to offer it to players as incentive.. and really makes sense the players expect that as part of the recruiting process.

Forcing these kids to go to college for a year instead of the NBA only makes it worse.

Punishing the schools is the wrong precedent as well... Big schools have been punished in the past. I dont think that's now going to make some sort of seismic shift in how college sports are managed.

This starts with the NCAA, not the schools. The system itself is meant to protect the business side, which includes paying players, relaxing (ignoring) academic standards, absolving staff and players from accountability for actions... and of late, sweeping horrific scandals under the rug.

I'd be willing to bet that filthy Roy Williams paid the refs to give him last seasons title game.

I love college sports but yeah, it's pretty dirty.

Uncle Si wrote:

IndyHawk wrote:

Natethegreat wrote:Duke, UNC, and other notables also implicated. I think what they do is just blame the system. Claim everyone is doing it therefore no big punishments. Its the systems fault not the cheaters. Maybe I'm jaded but after seeing the way the NCAA goes hard after the little guys and just hammers them and then turns around and lets the big boys off with a slap on the wrist or even nothing at all as in the UNC scandal. its happened repeatedly over the years I expect nothing different here.

Duke?Notre Dame?
My goodness...
Never thought these two would be on any list..
Then you got Lonzo saying pay them..A free education that sets you for life is not enough?
I am disgusted.

No... its not enough.

This isnt greed by the players. This is greed by the institution. There is so much money being made, and thus on the line, that it actually makes sense to offer it to players as incentive.. and really makes sense the players expect that as part of the recruiting process.

Forcing these kids to go to college for a year instead of the NBA only makes it worse.

Punishing the schools is the wrong precedent as well... Big schools have been punished in the past. I dont think that's now going to make some sort of seismic shift in how college sports are managed.

This starts with the NCAA, not the schools. The system itself is meant to protect the business side, which includes paying players, relaxing (ignoring) academic standards, absolving staff and players from accountability for actions... and of late, sweeping horrific scandals under the rug.

You are exactly what I'm talking about. The system made me cheat. What the hell ever. 90 percent of the coaches are not paying players.
What I guess they just don't get it? If you ain't cheating you ain't trying? What utter hogwash. If the NCAA starts paying their players you think that, that solves this?
The players all of the sudden won't want that 100k payment cause now they are getting a stipend?
What nonsense.
Every professional league has rules for fair competition too. I suppose their set up for cheating as well.
Heck everyone is doing it we are just keeping up with joneses. I hear this BS every single time a big time program is implicated.

The problem is, I already see these BS excuses being thrown out there by the NCAA already. Ohhh boy we can't cover it up this time.
WE'LL IT'S A SYSTEM PROBLEM. THEY CAN'T STOP THEMSELVES FROM CHEATING. Its already being thrown our there by Emmert and others.
We can't have all our top dogs busted for cheating(which keeps them at the top) so we will blame the system. Start all over and do a better job of hiding it.
Again a stipend will not stop the players from wanting/taking 100k payments and everyone knows it. But it is a convenient way to sweep this under the rug and keep right on allowing major schools to majorly cheat.

Lets not get it confused in here, Sean Miller and Arizona are the only coach and program to get popped on the report that came out yesterday. There is a good chance that a lot of these coaches didn't know of the players taking money from agents. A lot of the money being exchanged happened after players had already signed and played with their college teams. Whether Romar knew about Fultz taking money, who knows. That is the next part of the investigation, did coaches and programs know about all of this.

I will say this, as a UW fan, I am not surprised. UW was on the threshold of taking over as the Pac-12 power in the mid 2000's, and then sleezy Miller came along and literally paid his way to the top. Guys like Aaron Gordon were suppose to go to UW, and then all of a sudden went to Arizona. I commend all the successful teams that are clean (Gonzaga for sure, props to Mark Few). I still feel confident UW and Romar are clean.

I'd be shocked if Miller coaches another game. They play in Eugene tonight, I'd expect Romar to coach the team. Will Ayton play, wouldn't shock me if he just hangs it up and waits a few months for the NBA draft. Everywhere he goes there are going to be questions, not sure he wants to be around that.

Natethegreat wrote:

Uncle Si wrote:

IndyHawk wrote:

Natethegreat wrote:Duke, UNC, and other notables also implicated. I think what they do is just blame the system. Claim everyone is doing it therefore no big punishments. Its the systems fault not the cheaters. Maybe I'm jaded but after seeing the way the NCAA goes hard after the little guys and just hammers them and then turns around and lets the big boys off with a slap on the wrist or even nothing at all as in the UNC scandal. its happened repeatedly over the years I expect nothing different here.

Duke?Notre Dame?
My goodness...
Never thought these two would be on any list..
Then you got Lonzo saying pay them..A free education that sets you for life is not enough?
I am disgusted.

No... its not enough.

This isnt greed by the players. This is greed by the institution. There is so much money being made, and thus on the line, that it actually makes sense to offer it to players as incentive.. and really makes sense the players expect that as part of the recruiting process.

Forcing these kids to go to college for a year instead of the NBA only makes it worse.

Punishing the schools is the wrong precedent as well... Big schools have been punished in the past. I dont think that's now going to make some sort of seismic shift in how college sports are managed.

This starts with the NCAA, not the schools. The system itself is meant to protect the business side, which includes paying players, relaxing (ignoring) academic standards, absolving staff and players from accountability for actions... and of late, sweeping horrific scandals under the rug.

You are exactly what I'm talking about. The system made me cheat. What the hell ever. 90 percent of the coaches are not paying players.
What I guess they just don't get it? If you ain't cheating you ain't trying? What utter hogwash. If the NCAA starts paying their players you think that, that solves this?
The players all of the sudden won't want that 100k payment cause now they are getting a stipend?
What nonsense.
Every professional league has rules for fair competition too. I suppose their set up for cheating as well.
Heck everyone is doing it we are just keeping up with joneses. I hear this BS every single time a big time program is implicated.

The problem is, I already see these BS excuses being thrown out there by the NCAA already. Ohhh boy we can't cover it up this time.
WE'LL IT'S A SYSTEM PROBLEM. THEY CAN'T STOP THEMSELVES FROM CHEATING. Its already being thrown our there by Emmert and others.
We can't have all our top dogs busted for cheating(which keeps them at the top) so we will blame the system. Start all over and do a better job of hiding it.
Again a stipend will not stop the players from wanting/taking 100k payments and everyone knows it. But it is a convenient way to sweep this under the rug and keep right on allowing major schools to majorly cheat.

what are you talking about?

The NCAA has been letting this go for decades. They have refused, ignored or just pretended to enforce farcical rules meant to protect a cash scheme.

Are you going to really try and tell me that the NCAA and the way its set up has not supported, created these "scandals?"

Do yo not see the hypocrisy in that, or that.. or how naive it is to suggest that by going after the top of the pyramid instead of the bottom you might actually see change that I think you want?

Or no.. just go after the schools... and the players... (90 percent aren't paying players? i think you'd be really surprised how many do, and how long its been going on) who have been trying to play under the same umbrella as the people who reap the benefits of all their labor.

No.. you are the person I'm talking about. This is the kind of naive rant that perpetuates the same cycle youre somehow ranting about...

This shit has been going on forever. The NCAA has busted dozens of top schools and top coaches.. which simply gives the mirage of doing something. Now that the FBI is involved (way to go federal government, go after people who arent actually breaking any laws) that's somehow going to change.

Give me a break..

College athletics is a cesspool of manipulation and exploitation... taking place at the learning institutions of this country.

Cheating has been going on forever what a revelation. GUESS WHAT IT WILL CONTINUE TO GO ON FOREVER. EVEN IF THEY PAY THE PLAYERS! That won't fix a thing as far as this issue is concerned. You want to argue they should thats fine but it is a separate issue and it won't stop or even curb the cheating.
Again blaming the system is absurd. They are cheating to gain an advantage and will continue to do so until the penalty is actually severe enough to not do so.
This is especially true of the major programs that have been doing this for years and because of their status and their lawyers get away with slaps on the wrist at worst while small schools get hammered.

If they blame the system rather than the actual cheaters thats a cop out and nothing more than a way to once again excuse the abuse of of the rules by major programs. Something I GUARANTEE they would not say had this been Weber State, Eastern Washington, or Cal state Fullerton.

This pathetic excuse is no different than convicted criminals blaming the man. Its the mans fault. The system made me do it. I'm not responsible!

If they want to stop cheating they actually have to punish the main ones doing it and that is the big time programs at the top. No excuses, no projection of blame onto "the system".

You want to talk about stipends, fairness, and all that it is a totally separate issue and I guarantee it will in no way stop the players from wanting more, or the programs from doing everything they can to gain an advantage.

The cheating will go on until it is no longer in their best interest to do so.

Abolish the NCAA and force the NFL and NBA to pay for their own academy/youth development system.

Natethegreat wrote:Cheating has been going on forever what a revelation. GUESS WHAT IT WILL CONTINUE TO GO ON FOREVER. EVEN IF THEY PAY THE PLAYERS! That won't fix a thing as far as this issue is concerned. You want to argue they should thats fine but it is a separate issue and it won't stop or even curb the cheating.
Again blaming the system is absurd. They are cheating to gain an advantage and will continue to do so until the penalty is actually severe enough to not do so.
This is especially true of the major programs that have been doing this for years and because of their status and their lawyers get away with slaps on the wrist at worst while small schools get hammered.

If they blame the system rather than the actual cheaters thats a cop out and nothing more than a way to once again excuse the abuse of of the rules by major programs. Something I GUARANTEE they would not say had this been Weber State, Eastern Washington, or Cal state Fullerton.

This pathetic excuse is no different than convicted criminals blaming the man. Its the mans fault. The system made me do it. I'm not responsible!

If they want to stop cheating they actually have to punish the main ones doing it and that is the big time programs at the top. No excuses, no projection of blame onto "the system".

You want to talk about stipends, fairness, and all that it is a totally separate issue and I guarantee it will in no way stop the players from wanting more, or the programs from doing everything they can to gain an advantage.

The cheating will go on until it is no longer in their best interest to do so.

Where did I say the players should be paid?

The issue here is that the players expect money as part of their recruiting.. because a. Why not? 2. It’s been happening for decades. 3. There’s clearly plenty of money going around.

It won’t stop, as you said, until it’s not in there interest. But that only happens when the billions of dollars are gone or shared on an open market. (Now I’m saying it) . It’s not the bribery. It’s that it’s inherent in a system that not only expects it but basically endorses it. The NCAA has done nothing expect pick and choose moments to flex its authority while basically turning a blind eye to why college athletics have evolved into entitlement, manipulation, abuse, lies and greed.

It’s a sickening institution. The NCAA makes billions. The schools make millions. To make more they need the best players. The players know this.

And when they get to actual school... what a dichotomy between them and the college kids.

Don't most schools athletic departments lose money? How can they justify paying the athletes more than the $50k or so for tution, room and board? If you just want to pay the athletes on teams that generate a positive revenue how do you justify only paying the football players? Since football is generally the only team that makes money for a school?

What is surprising to me is that the top programs are the culprits - Arizona, USC, etc. These schools generally don't need to go to these lengths to recruit top players to their respective schools. You'd think that the smaller schools like VCU, Butler, Dayton, etc would be the ones doing this type to stuff to get better recruits to sign with their schools.