If I were geno, I'd want to play somewhere else. Our running game is warm / cold (mostly cold) at best. The O-line cant block consistently, and the defense gives up too many points and provides too few opportunities for the offense. Shane is... I dont know what Shane is, but i think the jury is still out.
He has to play almost perfect football to keep us in games
Geno's been at that near-elite level for two seasons. Unfortunately, Mael, there is nothing Geno can do—and no analysis to be made—that will change people's minds about him. It is what it is.
The statement wasn't literal.Your wrong. He could start by winning a playoff game at some point.
The statement wasn't literal.
To be fair, it would be kind of hard for him alone to bridge the gap. He's only had one shot at the postseason here and there really wasn't much he could've done that time around. He didn't play a perfect game, but it felt like he could've played a near perfect game and I still don't think we could've won that one.Your wrong. He could start by winning a playoff game at some point.
I don't mind your overall argument and there is some validity to it but I seriously doubt those guys have Geno as "easily a top 10 guy" He's averaging about a touchdown a game and that is nowhere near top 10 production regardless of what is going on around him. I think that argument is even a little overstated as he has a better supporting cast overall than average.The Geno hate is just that. I understand the frustration at him not being a highlight reel the way the last guy was, but his play and what he does play in and play out is more often than not very very good.
Fact is, I don't think there's a qb in the league that is performing as well as he is with thr lack of run support that he gets (29 th in the league is it?... 22nd in attempts?) , and suspect protection.
Brock, Wyman, KJ all agree that if Geno had even a decent running game , he'd easily be a top 10 qb. He's just not the type of player who's going to absolutely wow you with uber athleticism. And what he's good at often goes unseen. A good example is that Huard mentioned that the team likely avoided a sackfest Sunday by the way Geno navigated the pocket and got the ball out on time, again and again. If he'd been running around and making heroic throws in the process of avoiding those sacks rather than just threading the needle time and time again, folks would likely feel better about him, and less critical of the strip sack, because he was running for his life all day. But he plays the position the way it's supposed to be played and at a high level and it works against him through the lens of thr e casual observer.
Russ had a top 10 running game post LOB with the exeption of the year we lost our entire baackfield. And before argument is made that he contributed to that ranking, our RBS consistently put up top 10 to top 5 stats in YPC without him AND post LOB, there were very very few designed running plays for the QB to pad those numbers. So our average on rushing plays was very very good. That is not the case with Geno and with the exception of the firt 7 or 8 games of last year, our rushing attack has been one of our biggest liabilities.Sub Geno's name for Russ and it's the exact same thing.
Brock actually used the description borderline elite or top 5 QB. Brock is a former NFL QB. Hes been incredibly critical of the Oline, incredibly critical of the rushing attack, and incredibly critical of Waldron. They just dedicated a good part of KJs segment to this topic on the 3rd. Brocks summary - Geno i playng significantly better than some give him credit for and would be significantly better than what hes shown if he had a solid suppoting cast in the areas above.I don't mind your overall argument and there is some validity to it but I seriously doubt those guys have Geno as "easily a top 10 guy" He's averaging about a touchdown a game and that is nowhere near top 10 production regardless of what is going on around him. I think that argument is even a little overstated as he has a better supporting cast overall than average.
I don't think the offense has been bad though, Geno included. I think he's been fine and most of the advanced stats for him and the offense as a whole is fairly decent. I don't think he's anywhere near top 10 but what I will say, and maybe this is what you or the guys listed meant, is he can put up top 10 numbers if you get things right around him.
Just seems like the narrative with Geno almost everyone gets wrong becuase its been framed as an either/or debate and people feel obligated to pick one. He's not bottom 10 and he's not elite. He's an average NFL QB that can play above that if everything is right around him......he's in that 12-17 range which is fine. But its also fine to want someone who's in the top 5 conversation especially considering that's usually what it takes to make the SB.
Edit: I'm trying to be fair here as I personally think he's closer to the 15-20 range but I think the argument against me that he's slightly better is a reasonable take even if I disagree.
Consistently inconsistent. Like a schizophrenic savantI'll admit that I am nowhere near smart enough to realistically criticize his play designs on a macro level. On the contrary, most of what I read from the football minds I trust indicate that he's very bright in that regard. Sure, I can get mad about specific stinkers that seem ill-advised, but you can do that with any coach to ever coach football.
My criticisms usually center around the fact that we never approach a balanced enough offense for me to feel confident that we're doing the best we can with the type of talent we have. It also doesn't feel like there's a trademark identity to the offense, which is something I generally associate with solid coaching because it hints at a deep, deliberate sense of assuredness in a personal philosophy.
He was top 5 for half a season after being in the leage for 10 years. He is now averaging a touchdown a game with a ton of weapons. What happened the second half of last year when he wasn't nearly as good?Brock actually used the description borderline elite or top 5 QB. Brock is a former NFL QB. Hes been incredibly critical of the Oline, incredibly critical of the rushing attack, and incredibly critical of Waldron. They just dedicated a good part of KJs segment to this topic on the 3rd. Brocks summary - Geno i playng significantly better than some give him credit for and would be significantly better than what hes shown if he had a solid suppoting cast in the areas above.
And i completely disagree that hes just an average qb and above average if everything is great around him. When everything was great around him last year he was top 5 to 10. He didnt 'regress'. Our protection and rusging attack imploded. thats not opinion. Look at his stats before KW went out and Cross and our interior oline play regressed. direct correlation. And he's been playng under those same circumstances pretty much all year.
This year everything around him has been hugely questionable and NOW hes what... 14 to 16? Thats with objectively poor protection, an objectively poor rushing attack (one of the worst in the league), and playcalling throught the year that most everyone outside this board who evaluates it, says is questionable.
So the delta between Geno with all of those things working against him, and Geno with a top 5 to 10 rushing attack, top 12 to 15 protection, and a solid to consistently good playcaller is 4 spots.. from 16 to 12??
Really?
No, my comment wasn't. It's a figure of speech meant to evoke a shared sense of resignation with someone, Mael, who is running into the same wall I've run into for two seasons—trying to have a fair conversation about Geno with people who seemingly have no interest.It kind of was. Winning a playoff game would change a lot of opinions.
I’m still confused how 18 touchdowns is near elite. I know you hate that metric but regardless when looking at everything in totality and not cherry picking a couple that fit the narrative he’s not an elite QB he’s just not. He has some areas he shines in but most guys in the 12-20 range do too, that’s why they’re not in the 20-30 rangeGeno's been at that near-elite level for two seasons. Unfortunately, Mael, there is nothing Geno can do—and no analysis to be made—that will change people's minds about him. It is what it is.
To be fair, it would be kind of hard for him alone to bridge the gap. He's only had one shot at the postseason here and there really wasn't much he could've done that time around. He didn't play a perfect game, but it felt like he could've played a near perfect game and I still don't think we could've won that one.
The rub is that Geno plays largely structured football. I like that better on the whole compared to the alternative, but he's not one of those Caleb Williams or vintage Russ types. He can win the games, but he isn't gonna do the circus hero act to do it.
I'm happy with his overall performance on a fundamental level and I'm trying to separate it from team performance, because the team performance isn't just bad, it's super inconsistent too. I'd want to see him with a real run game and a less injured line. I can't see a reason that he wouldn't be able to eclipse 2022's performance with a more functional unit around him.
It's frustrating that the organization has failed to seize the opportunities that his unexpected growth and ascendancy have afforded us. All squandered thus far. You don't usually get the gift of a totally random top-10-capable talent at this position.