Adams to come off pup list

[flv2]

Could you imagine the thoughts going through Bobby Wagner's head, as he negotiated his own contract, and basically endured the ridiculous notion of being asked to take a pay cut so that Jamaal Adams could get paid instead? I would feel so damn disrespected. I give mad props to BWagz for being an adult about it and coming back home. Mad props indeed. It has elevated my perception of Wagner to a whole new level. He rose above it. I seriously doubt that any other player from that Super Bowl team could have swallowed his pride like that.

If I had my druthers, the Adams deal would have never been done and BWagz would have been given that contract instead. The real boon would have been keeping the draft capital on top of deservedly paying a Hall of Fame, Madden-99-rated, top-100-voted-by-the-players, Ring of Honor Seahawk. Further, this whole argument goes beyond the fact that Wagner still delivers at a high level. This is also about the message sent to the locker room as well as potential free agents throughout the entire league.

Paying Adams instead of Wagner was the dumbest decision of Pete Carroll's entire career and I'm probably the biggest Pete Carroll fanboy on the planet. Seriously. I sincerely hope that Carroll eventually leaves the team entirely on his own terms with another championship to cement his legacy, but damn that was a bonehead move. Carroll earned forgiveness for his mistake with his championship cache, but I hope he learned from his mistake as well.

Wagner was due almost $17M when the Seahawks released him, and he was maybe worth $8-10M. The Rams gave him a $10M per year contract with a $2M performance bonus that wasn't earned. No other team matched that offer. The Rams chose not to make the same mistake in 2023 and they released him. He has accepted a deal for $5.5M with the Seahawks in 2023.

Adams signed his deal in August 2021 when he was in his prime. The Seahawks deciding not to massively overpay Wagner in 2022 had nothing to do with Adams' deal.

 

[jamescasey1124]

I don't disagree at all, and I won't stop with the secondary. Our whole defense sucked.

But you were arguing that Adams was "constantly disrupting pass plays", which by definition was absolutely not the case as there would be no way that we would have been that bad of a defense, ranked 31st out of 32 against the pass, if Adams was even half as disruptive as you are making him out to be. Adams was horrible in coverage, and I remember much being made about the fact that he had more surgeries with us than he had interceptions.

I see that Pete is trying to convert Adams into some sort of hybrid safety/linebacker. IMO this is an admission that Adams is not well suited for a conventional safety role. They're trying to create a position for him because he's failed at what they had him doing in 2021. It's an attempt to salvage what little they can at what now stands as a total bust of a trade and an even worse decision to re-sign him to an enormous albatross of a contract.

He hasn't failed. He has just been hurt. My god. 2021 87 tackles. His sacks dropped off and so did his tackles for loss. Because why...not because he failed to play a position...because they played him in coverage more. Further from the line of scrimmage. That's all. His passes defended were also down so yeah little bit of a down year. Was that all Adams fault. No. Diggs was there. Bobby was there. Several not very good corners. Defensive line was no good.

I don't get it it. You guys just want to hate on certain players. Was the same thing with russ.

2022 he played one game so yeah...

 

[RiverDog]

JA has the ability to be a difference maker. Certainly a pro-bowl caliber player. However, he has to be used correctly within our defense AND stay healthy (otherwise he is of no use to anybody).
Will he ever live up to his contract? I certainly have my doubts BUT, I for one will remain hopeful and will wait to see what happens. If he doesn't pan out this year then I'll be happy to see him cut loose.
However, I'm in the camp that JA can still help this team dramatically and I'm willing to wait and see how he is used and how it affects the OVERALL defense. We're kind of committed at this point so why not stay positive.

It's not so much a matter of staying positive as it is being practical. I don't want to harbor unreasonable expectations only to be let down when he's either injured or under performs.

As far as being used correctly, we never have figured that out. He's not good in pass coverage and isn't a ball hawk with a nose for the football (2 interceptions in 25 starts for us) so we can't use him as a traditional safety. We can't use him consistently at the LOS as some sort of hybrid LB as he's too small to be going up against pulling guards and tight ends. He's an excellent pass rusher, but unlike a down lineman, we have to sacrifice something in order for him to be used at his optimum.

Due to giving him a soft landing after returning from such a devastating injury, we're not likely to see a lot of him until after our Week 5 bye, missing nearly a quarter of the regular season.

I sure hope I'm wrong, but looking into my crystal ball, I don't see a very bright future.

 

[RiverDog]

He hasn't failed. He has just been hurt. My god. 2021 87 tackles. His sacks dropped off and so did his tackles for loss. Because why...not because he failed to play a position...because they played him in coverage more. Further from the line of scrimmage. That's all. His passes defended were also down so yeah little bit of a down year. Was that all Adams fault. No. Diggs was there. Bobby was there. Several not very good corners. Defensive line was no good.

I don't get it it. You guys just want to hate on certain players. Was the same thing with russ.

2022 he played one game so yeah...

A little bit of a down year? From 2020 to 2021, he went from 9.5 sacks to zero, 14 QB hits to two, 11 tackles for loss to 4. To say that he had "a little bit of a down year" is a gross understatement. And as far as playing him in coverage, we had to play him in coverage. He wasn't getting to the QB and we were getting gashed because we had to make sacrifices in coverage in order for him to rush the passer. And what was our results when we played him more in coverage? The 31st ranked pass defense.

No one in here "hates" on their players. We're Seahawk fans, and our default is to love a guy that wears the blue and green until proven otherwise. There's a reason why most of us are down on the guy, and it's not just because he's been perpetually injured.

In his last full season, or semblance of a full season, he was very disappointing to say the least, and it coincided with the worst W/L we've posted in 11 years, the worst of the Pete Carroll era, due largely to our 28th ranked defense, a defense he was supposed to improve. Add that into the fact that we spent an arm and a leg to acquire him then paid him the largest contract in the history of the league for a safety, and it's pretty easy...well, easy for most, that is...to see why we're so down on him. Perhaps it's a bit unfair, but that kind of draft capital spent and contract money given raises the expectation bar, and people are disappointed when it isn't met.

 

[metwelve]

9.5 sacks in 2020. That's what I'm talkin about.

 

[pmedic920]

Adams achieved the reputation, and earned the contract because he’s an incredible football player, he’s a force that has to be accounted for regardless of where he plays/lines up.

Our only concern(as Seahawk fans) is IF he can stay on the field/“healthy”, if he does I believe wholeheartedly that he’ll earn his keep and force a few to eat the proverbial “crow”.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

So you are in the war room now. Knowing who is making the decisions on the draft picks.

Pete concerning Adams and Harvin most certainly.

 

[Palmegranite]

I'm in agreement with jamescasey1124 on this.
Adams in his first year with Seattle was a real wildcard. Very aggressive, take some chances player that got results and improved the defence.
Year 2, it appeared a decision was made to rein him in( neutered surely), a puzzling decision by the brain trust.

I hope Pete C doesn't get cautious and make the same mistake when JA returns to the field.

 

[pmedic920]

Pete concerning Adams and Harvin most certainly.

Come on Chic.

This statement can only be made with the benefit of hindsight, and can’t even really be made about Adams yet.

If you can point to a HC/GM tandem that has hit every trade I’ll eat my words.

Fact is, you can’t win them all, and if you want to hang your hat on the Harvin and Adams trade you certainly haven’t been paying attention because there have been worse.

No disrespect intended, I just think maybe your emotions are getting the best of you on this one.

 

[RiverDog]

Adams achieved the reputation, and earned the contract because he’s an incredible football player, he’s a force that has to be accounted for regardless of where he plays/lines up.

Our only concern(as Seahawk fans) is IF he can stay on the field/“healthy”, if he does I believe wholeheartedly that he’ll earn his keep and force a few to eat the proverbial “crow”.

Our only concern as Seahawk fans is if he can stay on the field/"healthy"? I'm a Seahawk fan, and I have more concerns than just his health. Speak for yourself.

If you will, please go back and read some of the comments that were made in this thread about Adams' performance when he was healthy and you'll see at least a couple of Seahawk fans expressing doubts, or agreeing with comments, about his ability to contribute even if he's healthy and able to stay on the field.

 

[pmedic920]

Our only concern as Seahawk fans is if he can stay on the field/"healthy"? I'm a Seahawk fan, and I have more concerns than just his health. Speak for yourself.

If you will, please go back and read some of the comments that were made in this thread about Adams' performance when he was healthy and you'll see at least a couple of Seahawk fans expressing doubts, or agreeing with comments, about his ability to contribute even if he's healthy and able to stay on the field.

Yea well you do you.

If we go back and “read some of the comments” we can find reasons to be pessimistic about just about every player, most of the coaches, the GM, and I bet I can find some negative stuff about JA (current owner).

We can find comments that suggest every trade and draft pick were the worst ever.

I choose to be optimistic in spite of what I read here, or any other place.
We are stuck with Adams for a minute, so I choose to be hopeful that he lives up to the player we traded for. I tend to enjoy my fandom more that way.

My comment was general conversation and not intended to be taken literally, so there is that too.

 

[flv2]

Yea well you do you.

If we go back and “read some of the comments” we can find reasons to be pessimistic about just about every player, most of the coaches, the GM, and I bet I can find some negative stuff about JA (current owner).

We can find comments that suggest every trade and draft pick were the worst ever.

I choose to be optimistic in spite of what I read here, or any other place.
We are stuck with Adams for a minute, so I choose to be hopeful that he lives up to the player we traded for. I tend to enjoy my fandom more that way.

My comment was general conversation and not intended to be taken literally, so there is that too.

Maybe you should stop doing you.

 

[Mick063]

Wagner was due almost $17M when the Seahawks released him, and he was maybe worth $8-10M. The Rams gave him a $10M per year contract with a $2M performance bonus that wasn't earned. No other team matched that offer. The Rams chose not to make the same mistake in 2023 and they released him. He has accepted a deal for $5.5M with the Seahawks in 2023.

Adams signed his deal in August 2021 when he was in his prime. The Seahawks deciding not to massively overpay Wagner in 2022 had nothing to do with Adams' deal.

Wagner would have restructured to the going rate. You know it. I know it. He didn't get the deal because Adams was overpaid. Further, Adams has NEVER been in his prime, because Adams has never done anything worthwhile enough to be labeled as "prime "except blitz the quarterback on third down. He has one year of Darrell Taylor equivalent stats. Thats it. No one is talking about Darrell Taylor like he is some type of generational talent.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Come on Chic.

This statement can only be made with the benefit of hindsight, and can’t even really be made about Adams yet.

If you can point to a HC/GM tandem that has hit every trade I’ll eat my words.

Fact is, you can’t win them all, and if you want to hang your hat on the Harvin and Adams trade you certainly haven’t been paying attention because there have been worse.

No disrespect intended, I just think maybe your emotions are getting the best of you on this one.

Moreso in my opinion Pete loves athletes that never fit an actual scheme he so loves his toys. And NEVER ever call me Chic again Boy.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Here ya go Sgt largent and riverdog. Eat your words. Apologize and tell me you are not out to just hate on Adams.
This video breaks down everything I have said. Backs it up with video proof and even says that 2021 they switched to a two deep safety look explaining why Adams played deep more and was the first time in his career he had done that. By snap count. Look at the first few plays in the dam video! Adams break on passes and disrupting them.
Watch more football. It was the first god dam video I found by just searching Jamal Adams in coverage. Eat your sorry ass words.
Further proof of people just saying shit to say it and be heard. No better than a skip Bayless or dumb ass nick wright.

 

[themunn]

Adams is about to go from playing safety with a rotation of corners such as Tre Flowers, Quintin Dunbar, Sidney Jones to our deepest group yet - and he is likely to be the best player of that group. When you can't pick on the right corner back over and over and over like you did in 2020 and 2021, your safeties feast.

 

[RiverDog]

Yea well you do you.

If we go back and “read some of the comments” we can find reasons to be pessimistic about just about every player, most of the coaches, the GM, and I bet I can find some negative stuff about JA (current owner).

We can find comments that suggest every trade and draft pick were the worst ever.

I choose to be optimistic in spite of what I read here, or any other place.
We are stuck with Adams for a minute, so choose to be hopeful that he lives up to the player we traded for. I tend to enjoy my fandom more that way.

My comment was general conversation and not intended to be taken literally, so there is that too.

Geez, getting a little snarky, my friend? All I'm doing is asking you not to speak for me as I am most certainly a Seahawk fan and I definitely have concerns about Adams besides his health. And yes, it may not have been meant to be taken literally, but in the absence of visual ques like facial expressions and tone of voice, should we not strive to be as verbally accurate as possible in our musings so we can to avoid such misunderstandings?

As far as your comments about optimism vs. pessimism, I normally come down in the latter category. I got so tired of hearing all these glowing reports from beat reporters and head coaches (gawd, remember all the hype about Christine Michael?) only to have to suffer a major letdown when the on-field performance of players and teams failed to match the preseason hype. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised by an unexpected occurrence even if it comes at the expense of my being wrong in my assumptions, so I lower my expectation bar. It doesn't mean that I'm any less of a fan, just that I don't embrace the same cheerleader fan boy attitude as some. That's not being directed at you or anyone else in present company.

One thing I do agree with you on, and that is your characterization of our being "stuck" with Adams. That's a good way of putting it. Hopefully, Pete will finally figure out how to get the maximum contribution from Adams, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[RiverDog]

With regards to how best to use Adams, I've heard that one option we are considering is to convert him into some sort of hybrid linebacker-safety position. IMO that might work in certain situations, but at 6'1" and 213 lbs., Adams is a little undersized for him to be deployed in the box at the LOS on 1st and 2nd down. In addition, his being forced to take on pulling guards and tight ends. I'm not a doctor, but the nature of his injuries, particularly the torn quadricep he's still recovering from, it would seem to put him at a higher risk of getting hurt yet again.

IMO we should give up the idea of using Adams as a 3-down player, at least for the time being. Bring him in on passing situations where he won't be facing as many running plays and unfavorable personnel groupings, like two tight sets, that would create a mismatch. His best strength is rushing the passer, and his presence would force defenses to account for him. Also, reducing the number of plays reduces the risk of injury and allows for a soft landing of sorts.

 

[themunn]

Wagner would have restructured to the going rate. You know it. I know it. He didn't get the deal because Adams was overpaid. Further, Adams has NEVER been in his prime, because Adams has never done anything worthwhile enough to be labeled as "prime "except blitz the quarterback on third down. He has one year of Darrell Taylor equivalent stats. Thats it. No one is talking about Darrell Taylor like he is some type of generational talent.

Wagner screwed himself by being his own agent and ignoring calls from JS to come in and negotiate (this admission is straight from Wagner's own mouth) .

He got cute and tried to play hardball and left them no choice but to cut him - if the player isn't willing to answer the call to negotiate and you're not willing to pay the 17m then that's the only option left. If he had an agent he would never have left.

 

[pmedic920]

Moreso in my opinion Pete loves athletes that never fit an actual scheme he so loves his toys. And NEVER ever call me Chic again Boy.

Was simply a spin on “come on man”.

Wasn’t intended as an insult ma’am , my apologies if it offended you.

Gee wiz, sign of the times I suppose.