Belicheck's Post Season... Dominance?

[12thManHawkFan]

I get that in the early 2000's the Patriots won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and honestly I dont know a ton about the team that accomplished that amazing success. But if you look at the last ten years(entire century!), Belicheck's post season record doesn't seem that impressive to me. Especially considering he has, arguably, the best QB in the history of football.

Here are his numbers over the past ten seasons including this year, 11-8 (57%) total record, Missed the playoffs once, Super Bowl appearances 3, Super Bowl Wins 0.

Now before you get all puffy chested Pats fans, here you are, with a 3 time Super Bowl winning HOF QB that alot of people would say is the Greatest QB in the history of the NFL, however, the divisional record of the AFC East over the last 10 years not including Pats is a whopping .429, that would rank dead last according to this random SOS article i found from earlier in 2014http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...th-of-schedule-raiders-at-no-1-colts-at-no-32. Why is this important? Your team is handed the softest schedule every single year playing in that craptastic division, which basically equates to an auto Home Field Playoff game with a HOF QB every single year, I'm surprised yall dont have 6-7 Trophies already tbh.

To put the numbers into perspective Pete Carroll, since being the Seahawks HC, is 7-2 (78%), missed the playoffs once(before he had a quality QB), Super bowl appearances 2, Super Bowl wins 1. NFC West Win percentage the last 5 years is .496 which would rank 15 on the link provided, basically an over all average division.

So the question I have, and would like to discuss is at what point do you become an average post season Head coach resting on laurels from past success?

2014 2-0
Baltimore W 35-31
Indy W 45-7

2013 1-1
Indianapolis W 43-22
Denver L 26-16

2012 1-1
Houston W 41-28
Baltimore L 28-13

2011 2-1
Denver W 45-10
Baltimore W 23-20
NYG L 21-17

2010 0-1
NYJ L 28-21

2009 0-1
Baltimore L 33-14

2008
MIssed the Playoffs

2007 2-1
Jacksonville W 31-30
Sand Diego W 21-12
NYG L 17-14

2006 2-1
NYJ W 37-16
San Diego W 24-21
Indy L 38-34

2005 1-1
Jacksonville W 28-3
Denver L 27-13

 

[GeekHawk]

When you quote the division records (.429 vs .496) I imagine that's overall, including games within the division. For a meaningful stat comparison, that should really be only games outside the division to see how very good or crappy a division is. Otherwise you're skewing the results towards .500, since each in-division game adds 1 to the win column and 1 to the loss column overall. I imagine that'd make it even more stark of a comparison, but I just don't have the gumption to do the research myself when I have a boatload of grad school homework looming.

 

[12thManHawkFan]

When you quote the division records (.429 vs .496) I imagine that's overall, including games within the division. For a meaningful stat comparison, that should really be only games outside the division to see how very good or crappy a division is. Otherwise you're skewing the results towards .500, since each in-division game adds 1 to the win column and 1 to the loss column overall. I imagine that'd make it even more stark of a comparison, but I just don't have the gumption to do the research myself when I have a boatload of grad school homework looming.

I get your point, but it didn't take long to add the numbers, the results minus divisional games is even more of a disparity.

AFC West (minus NE) .392, which would rank them the BOTTOM FEEDER path to the playoffs according to SOS in the article referenced above.

NFC West (minus Seattle) .546 which would rank their path 8th referencing the article in the OP.

 

[Chawks1]

Excellent point. For the past 3 years I've been preachng to my neighbor, who is a Pats fan, that they get into the playoffs every year because of their soft division. The Jets had 2 good years when Sanchez was a rookie and his next year. But other than that Miami, Buffalo, and NYJ are not franchises that scare anyone.

And if you breakdown Brady's lack of being able to throw deep they must rely on deception to win. No huddle, hurry up offenses that try to mismatch personnel or ineligible/legible players trying to catch D's off-guard.

I believe so much in our defense and how discipline they are, how well they communicate with each other, and the overall team speed matched with their intensity that we can overcome anything Pats offense throws at us. Most we give up is 17 points.

And their D vs Lynch should be a good matchup for us by the end of the game. Their secondary is stout but can they cover our WRs for 6-7 seconds? Because that is what they will have to do when Russ breaks the pocket and improvises. No one mentions that the Seahawks had the 9th ranked offense and the Patriots only had the 11th ranked offense.

I like our match ups and the ability of our team being able to compete for 60 minutes. We are ready for this! Go Hawks!

 

[RichNhansom]

I'm curious as to their seeding each of those years as well as which games were home and away.

 

[Chawks1]

Mods this is an excellent topic.....anyway to move to main forum???

 

[12thManHawkFan]

# 1 Seed 4 times, # 2 Seed twice, # 3 once, #4 twice. That's 6 TIMES!! they had a bye week out of 9, 13 out of 19 homefield playoff games (68%!!!) and haven't been able to seal the deal.

home w-l
10-3 (76%)

away w-l
1-5 (17%)

 

[RichNhansom]

# 1 Seed 4 times, # 2 Seed twice, # 3 once, #4 twice. That's 6 TIMES!! they had a bye week out of 9, 13 out of 19 homefield playoff games (68%!!!) and haven't been able to seal the deal.

home w-l
10-3 (76%)

away w-l
1-5 (17%)

Impressive. Thanks

 

[Strongarm2399]

I get the point of this thread. But winning the Super Bowl is not easy. If the patriots win the Super Bowl this year and the Hawks lose in the conference championship next year. Would you Hawks fans consider the past 4 years anything other than success. Let's not act like the nfc is that great. The Hawks and packers are but everyone else not so much. the Broncos destroyed sf and az.

The 07 sb he was not out coached their oline was absolutely destroyed and a miracle catch happened after Eli threw off defenders and Astarte dropped a pick thrown right at him

They played their 2011 sb with their best offensive weapon severely injured. It would be like lynch playing with a high ankle sprain.

The team that played Denver last year was missing its 3 best defensive players and their best 2 offensive players. (One of them isn't playing in this game) it would be like the Hawks playing without Wagner.

You can try and discredit hoody and brady but what they have done has been unreal. This is the nfl. Since Brady's first start they have been to 9 conference championships and 6 Super Bowls. Think of all the ups and downs seattle has gone through in that time period of sustained success.

none of their teams have ever been the most talented defensively and only one was the most talented offensively.

 

[GeekHawk]

Okay, I went and looked at 2014 only, and only for the AFC East and NFC West. The division winning percentages, both overall and only counting out-of-division games (so that the results aren't artificially skewed towards .500 by the fact that every in-division game adds one to the wins and one to the losses, so this is truly the "strength of your division" stat):
Wins Losses Non-Div Wins Non-Div Losses Overall Win % Win % against other Divs
AFCE 33 31 21 19 .516 .525

NFCW 37 27 25 15 .578 .625

And, the same numbers with the Pats and the Hawks removed, so you can see the strength of our respective competition:

Wins Losses Non-Div Wins Non-Div Losses Overall Win % Win % against other Divs
AFCE 21 27 13 17 .438 .433

NFCW 25 23 18 12 .521 .600

I think that this pretty well shows how the Pats totally dominate a division that is really stinkaroo, and it looks like getting to the playoffs in the AFCE doesn't really take a whole lot. No wonder they keep getting there!

This took some time away from homework, so I'm not going to repeat it for other years.

 

[GeekHawk]

Okay, I went and looked at 2014 only, and only for the AFC East and NFC West. The division winning percentages, both overall and only counting out-of-division games (so that the results aren't artificially skewed towards .500 by the fact that every in-division game adds one to the wins and one to the losses, so this is truly the "strength of your division" stat):
Wins Losses Non-Div Wins Non-Div Losses Overall Win % Win % against other Divs
AFCE 33 31 21 19 .516 .525

NFCW 37 27 25 15 .578 .625

And, the same numbers with the Pats and the Hawks removed, so you can see the strength of our respective competition:

Wins Losses Non-Div Wins Non-Div Losses Overall Win % Win % against other Divs
AFCE 21 27 13 17 .438 .433

NFCW 25 23 18 12 .521 .600

I think that this pretty well shows how the Pats totally dominate a division that is really stinkaroo, and it looks like getting to the playoffs in the AFCE doesn't really take a whole lot. No wonder they keep getting there!

This took some time away from homework, so I'm not going to repeat it for other years.

Dang, I spent such a long time formatting the info so it would line up - I didn't realize the forum software automatically gets rid of 'extra' spaces! That's why tabular data looks so terrible all the time...

I couldn't help myself, so I went back and looked at years 2010 - 2013 as well. Same data, with years added (second table (Pats and Hawks removed) only):
Wins Losses Non-Div Wins Non-Div Losses Overall Win % Win % against other Divs
AFCE
2010 22 26 9 1 .458 .500
2011 20 28 13 17 .417 .433
2012 19 29 13 15 .396 .464
2013 22 26 14 16 .458 .467

NFCW
2010 18 10 10 20 .375 .333
2011 23 25 14 16 .479 .467
2012 24 24 15 15 .500 .500
2013 29 19 21 9 .604 .700

Looking at the above, a couple things stick out - 1, the NFCW really was as bad as everyone said in 2010; and 2, every other year the AFCE has been just as mediocre of competition for the Pats as every other year. So, same point still stands. The other thing that sticks out is that if you remove the dominant team from the overall division stats, then the overall division W/L percentage no longer skews towards .500 (since you take out many in-division Ws, but leave in the in-division Ls). So, there ya go.

 

[davdog]

I get that in the early 2000's the Patriots won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and honestly I dont know a ton about the team that accomplished that amazing success. But if you look at the last ten years(entire century!), Belicheck's post season record doesn't seem that impressive to me. Especially considering he has, arguably, the best QB in the history of football.

Here are his numbers over the past ten seasons including this year, 11-8 (57%) total record, Missed the playoffs once, Super Bowl appearances 3, Super Bowl Wins 0.

Now before you get all puffy chested Pats fans, here you are, with a 3 time Super Bowl winning HOF QB that alot of people would say is the Greatest QB in the history of the NFL, however, the divisional record of the AFC East over the last 10 years not including Pats is a whopping .429, that would rank dead last according to this random SOS article i found from earlier in 2014http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...th-of-schedule-raiders-at-no-1-colts-at-no-32. Why is this important? Your team is handed the softest schedule every single year playing in that craptastic division, which basically equates to an auto Home Field Playoff game with a HOF QB every single year, I'm surprised yall dont have 6-7 Trophies already tbh.

To put the numbers into perspective Pete Carroll, since being the Seahawks HC, is 7-2 (78%), missed the playoffs once(before he had a quality QB), Super bowl appearances 2, Super Bowl wins 1. NFC West Win percentage the last 5 years is .496 which would rank 15 on the link provided, basically an over all average division.

So the question I have, and would like to discuss is at what point do you become an average post season Head coach resting on laurels from past success?

2014 2-0
Baltimore W 35-31
Indy W 45-7

2013 1-1
Indianapolis W 43-22
Denver L 26-16

2012 1-1
Houston W 41-28
Baltimore L 28-13

2011 2-1
Denver W 45-10
Baltimore W 23-20
NYG L 21-17

2010 0-1
NYJ L 28-21

2009 0-1
Baltimore L 33-14

2008
MIssed the Playoffs

2007 2-1
Jacksonville W 31-30
Sand Diego W 21-12
NYG L 17-14

2006 2-1
NYJ W 37-16
San Diego W 24-21
Indy L 38-34

2005 1-1
Jacksonville W 28-3
Denver L 27-13

Are you nuts? What an accomplishment the above record is. I don't care what team did it. The only year they didn't make the playoffs was the year without Brady and they still went 11-5. You can't win them all, you know that too. Good grief.

 

[Chawks1]

 

[Ambrose83]

I get that in the early 2000's the Patriots won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and honestly I dont know a ton about the team that accomplished that amazing success. But if you look at the last ten years(entire century!), Belicheck's post season record doesn't seem that impressive to me. Especially considering he has, arguably, the best QB in the history of football.

Here are his numbers over the past ten seasons including this year, 11-8 (57%) total record, Missed the playoffs once, Super Bowl appearances 3, Super Bowl Wins 0.

Now before you get all puffy chested Pats fans, here you are, with a 3 time Super Bowl winning HOF QB that alot of people would say is the Greatest QB in the history of the NFL, however, the divisional record of the AFC East over the last 10 years not including Pats is a whopping .429, that would rank dead last according to this random SOS article i found from earlier in 2014http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...th-of-schedule-raiders-at-no-1-colts-at-no-32. Why is this important? Your team is handed the softest schedule every single year playing in that craptastic division, which basically equates to an auto Home Field Playoff game with a HOF QB every single year, I'm surprised yall dont have 6-7 Trophies already tbh.

To put the numbers into perspective Pete Carroll, since being the Seahawks HC, is 7-2 (78%), missed the playoffs once(before he had a quality QB), Super bowl appearances 2, Super Bowl wins 1. NFC West Win percentage the last 5 years is .496 which would rank 15 on the link provided, basically an over all average division.

So the question I have, and would like to discuss is at what point do you become an average post season Head coach resting on laurels from past success?

2014 2-0
Baltimore W 35-31
Indy W 45-7

2013 1-1
Indianapolis W 43-22
Denver L 26-16

2012 1-1
Houston W 41-28
Baltimore L 28-13

2011 2-1
Denver W 45-10
Baltimore W 23-20
NYG L 21-17

2010 0-1
NYJ L 28-21

2009 0-1
Baltimore L 33-14

2008
MIssed the Playoffs

2007 2-1
Jacksonville W 31-30
Sand Diego W 21-12
NYG L 17-14

2006 2-1
NYJ W 37-16
San Diego W 24-21
Indy L 38-34

2005 1-1
Jacksonville W 28-3
Denver L 27-13

Are you nuts? What an accomplishment the above record is. I don't care what team did it. The only year they didn't make the playoffs was the year without Brady and they still went 11-5. You can't win them all, you know that too. Good grief.

They went 11-5 w cassel... how good is brady really? We don't go 11-5 w t jack... or is that div just that bad

 

[12thManHawkFan]

I get that in the early 2000's the Patriots won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and honestly I dont know a ton about the team that accomplished that amazing success. But if you look at the last ten years(entire century!), Belicheck's post season record doesn't seem that impressive to me. Especially considering he has, arguably, the best QB in the history of football.

Here are his numbers over the past ten seasons including this year, 11-8 (57%) total record, Missed the playoffs once, Super Bowl appearances 3, Super Bowl Wins 0.

Now before you get all puffy chested Pats fans, here you are, with a 3 time Super Bowl winning HOF QB that alot of people would say is the Greatest QB in the history of the NFL, however, the divisional record of the AFC East over the last 10 years not including Pats is a whopping .429, that would rank dead last according to this random SOS article i found from earlier in 2014http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...th-of-schedule-raiders-at-no-1-colts-at-no-32. Why is this important? Your team is handed the softest schedule every single year playing in that craptastic division, which basically equates to an auto Home Field Playoff game with a HOF QB every single year, I'm surprised yall dont have 6-7 Trophies already tbh.

To put the numbers into perspective Pete Carroll, since being the Seahawks HC, is 7-2 (78%), missed the playoffs once(before he had a quality QB), Super bowl appearances 2, Super Bowl wins 1. NFC West Win percentage the last 5 years is .496 which would rank 15 on the link provided, basically an over all average division.

So the question I have, and would like to discuss is at what point do you become an average post season Head coach resting on laurels from past success?

2014 2-0
Baltimore W 35-31
Indy W 45-7

2013 1-1
Indianapolis W 43-22
Denver L 26-16

2012 1-1
Houston W 41-28
Baltimore L 28-13

2011 2-1
Denver W 45-10
Baltimore W 23-20
NYG L 21-17

2010 0-1
NYJ L 28-21

2009 0-1
Baltimore L 33-14

2008
MIssed the Playoffs

2007 2-1
Jacksonville W 31-30
Sand Diego W 21-12
NYG L 17-14

2006 2-1
NYJ W 37-16
San Diego W 24-21
Indy L 38-34

2005 1-1
Jacksonville W 28-3
Denver L 27-13

Are you nuts? What an accomplishment the above record is. I don't care what team did it. The only year they didn't make the playoffs was the year without Brady and they still went 11-5. You can't win them all, you know that too. Good grief.

My question wasnt regarding what your saying, this is a 57% post season record, making the playoffs 90% of the time, 60% of the time with a first round bye, 100% of the time starting with a home field game, and 100% of the time over the past 10 years FAILING to capitalize.

Is Belichecks tenyure and his resume as a whole impressive, ya, but im sick of hearing how he is going to come up with some kind of mastermind scheme to take away our number one strength because of his utter brilliance, i think he had a historic run 2003-2005 and beyond that he has been benifitting from a superb QB and a soft ass division.

 

[davdog]

I get that in the early 2000's the Patriots won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and honestly I dont know a ton about the team that accomplished that amazing success. But if you look at the last ten years(entire century!), Belicheck's post season record doesn't seem that impressive to me. Especially considering he has, arguably, the best QB in the history of football.

Here are his numbers over the past ten seasons including this year, 11-8 (57%) total record, Missed the playoffs once, Super Bowl appearances 3, Super Bowl Wins 0.

Now before you get all puffy chested Pats fans, here you are, with a 3 time Super Bowl winning HOF QB that alot of people would say is the Greatest QB in the history of the NFL, however, the divisional record of the AFC East over the last 10 years not including Pats is a whopping .429, that would rank dead last according to this random SOS article i found from earlier in 2014http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...th-of-schedule-raiders-at-no-1-colts-at-no-32. Why is this important? Your team is handed the softest schedule every single year playing in that craptastic division, which basically equates to an auto Home Field Playoff game with a HOF QB every single year, I'm surprised yall dont have 6-7 Trophies already tbh.

To put the numbers into perspective Pete Carroll, since being the Seahawks HC, is 7-2 (78%), missed the playoffs once(before he had a quality QB), Super bowl appearances 2, Super Bowl wins 1. NFC West Win percentage the last 5 years is .496 which would rank 15 on the link provided, basically an over all average division.

So the question I have, and would like to discuss is at what point do you become an average post season Head coach resting on laurels from past success?

2014 2-0
Baltimore W 35-31
Indy W 45-7

2013 1-1
Indianapolis W 43-22
Denver L 26-16

2012 1-1
Houston W 41-28
Baltimore L 28-13

2011 2-1
Denver W 45-10
Baltimore W 23-20
NYG L 21-17

2010 0-1
NYJ L 28-21

2009 0-1
Baltimore L 33-14

2008
MIssed the Playoffs

2007 2-1
Jacksonville W 31-30
Sand Diego W 21-12
NYG L 17-14

2006 2-1
NYJ W 37-16
San Diego W 24-21
Indy L 38-34

2005 1-1
Jacksonville W 28-3
Denver L 27-13

Are you nuts? What an accomplishment the above record is. I don't care what team did it. The only year they didn't make the playoffs was the year without Brady and they still went 11-5. You can't win them all, you know that too. Good grief.

They went 11-5 w cassel... how good is brady really? We don't go 11-5 w t jack... or is that div just that bad

I've said the same thing numerous times since 08. He is good but he's also been with the same coach his whole career. Yes for the most part the rest of the AFC east has sucked for every year except 08.

 

[davdog]

I get that in the early 2000's the Patriots won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and honestly I dont know a ton about the team that accomplished that amazing success. But if you look at the last ten years(entire century!), Belicheck's post season record doesn't seem that impressive to me. Especially considering he has, arguably, the best QB in the history of football.

Here are his numbers over the past ten seasons including this year, 11-8 (57%) total record, Missed the playoffs once, Super Bowl appearances 3, Super Bowl Wins 0.

Now before you get all puffy chested Pats fans, here you are, with a 3 time Super Bowl winning HOF QB that alot of people would say is the Greatest QB in the history of the NFL, however, the divisional record of the AFC East over the last 10 years not including Pats is a whopping .429, that would rank dead last according to this random SOS article i found from earlier in 2014http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...th-of-schedule-raiders-at-no-1-colts-at-no-32. Why is this important? Your team is handed the softest schedule every single year playing in that craptastic division, which basically equates to an auto Home Field Playoff game with a HOF QB every single year, I'm surprised yall dont have 6-7 Trophies already tbh.

To put the numbers into perspective Pete Carroll, since being the Seahawks HC, is 7-2 (78%), missed the playoffs once(before he had a quality QB), Super bowl appearances 2, Super Bowl wins 1. NFC West Win percentage the last 5 years is .496 which would rank 15 on the link provided, basically an over all average division.

So the question I have, and would like to discuss is at what point do you become an average post season Head coach resting on laurels from past success?

2014 2-0
Baltimore W 35-31
Indy W 45-7

2013 1-1
Indianapolis W 43-22
Denver L 26-16

2012 1-1
Houston W 41-28
Baltimore L 28-13

2011 2-1
Denver W 45-10
Baltimore W 23-20
NYG L 21-17

2010 0-1
NYJ L 28-21

2009 0-1
Baltimore L 33-14

2008
MIssed the Playoffs

2007 2-1
Jacksonville W 31-30
Sand Diego W 21-12
NYG L 17-14

2006 2-1
NYJ W 37-16
San Diego W 24-21
Indy L 38-34

2005 1-1
Jacksonville W 28-3
Denver L 27-13

Are you nuts? What an accomplishment the above record is. I don't care what team did it. The only year they didn't make the playoffs was the year without Brady and they still went 11-5. You can't win them all, you know that too. Good grief.

They went 11-5 w cassel... how good is brady really? We don't go 11-5 w t jack... or is that div just that bad

I've said the same thing numerous times since 08. He is good but he's also been with the same coach his whole career. Yes for the most part the rest of the AFC east has sucked for every year except 08.

But then didn't Bradshaw have Noll for a coach his entire career?

 

[Strongarm2399]

The team that went 11-5 with cassell was coming off being the greatest team ever to be fair

 

[davdog]

The team that went 11-5 with cassell was coming off being the greatest team ever to be fair

That is very true. A lot of QBs could probably have been plugged in there and we know how Cassell worked out in KC.

 

[lobohawk]

The fact that the Pats have been on top of a crappy division is left unsaid by the media, as it weakens the meme of Pat superiority in that time frame. Essentially they only have needed to worry about managing 2-3 games a year to get to the Super Bowl.