Copa America

[Uncle Si]

Two things:

What big wins? Beating Spain once? Mexico? Portugal? 1/2 a German or Dutch team? Most top 15 nations get a couple big wins a year... we can't expect to excel beyond that?

And why can't it be a top 5 team. Croatia can be but the US can't? Portugal? Greece? That's ridiculous. Please, explain to me with all your insight into what is happening in American soccer why it can't be a top 5 team in 10 years? You are keyed in. We have been sustainable, and consistent... and mediocre. Using the USMNT to proliferate football players with balls at their feet isn't going to make us more competitive. We make win some games, but we will always be chasing. Always on the back foot. Always mediocre.

The realistic goal is to develop the right type of players, something the previous two regimes have failed to do. Pulisic is an example of the new type of player. Bobby Wood as well. And there are more of his type coming.

 

[SeatownJay]

Si, does the US have a National Youth Academy, or do they depend on club academies to develop youth players?

 

[Uncle Si]

Si, does the US have a National Youth Academy, or do they depend on club academies to develop youth players?

Both..

They rely heavily on Developmental Academies that operate in a regional setting. This is designed, authorized and licensed by the USSF. Teams like the Sounders now also have DAs competing with the regional ones that existed before (Washington has 4, Oregon 3 for example).

The DAs play in USSF sanctioned events against each other where they are often scouted by USSF officials. The USMNT will also host events (typically ID camps) that DAs will handpick players for.

Unfortunately, the size of the US has been more a detriment than a strength in this regard as many players do not get the coaching or playing opportunities due to distance and sheer populous.

 

[Chapow]

Thanks for the info guys.

So, with the USA still playing for 3rd place, it seems to me that is respectable.
I get it, for real USA soccer fans it was hard to watch but we still should be proud of them, huh?

IMO, this team, getting to a semi-final in this tournament is at least somewhat of an accomplishment. They exceeded any realistic expectations. They won their group and they beat the #13 ranked team in the world when they beat Ecuador in the quarter-final.

These are the 4 teams that made the semi-finals and their world ranking,

Argentina #1

Colombia #3

Chile #5

USA #31

I was certainly not proud watching them get completely dominated by a far superior Argentina team, but at the same time, like I said, they exceeded expectations by even getting to the semi-finals. IMO, that is a pretty good accomplishment and yes, I think it's certainly reasonable to be proud of them.

 

[Smurf]

I'm 100% with Si on this.


Development isn't on par with other nations.


And at this point in his career JK has yet to make the tactical decisions that would correctly mask those short comings. Beckerman, Wondo, and Zusi did nothing but expose the problem in our system last night.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

I watched Croatia last night... how is that tiny nation able to create and develop so many players with the work ethic Sgt. Lrgt thinks embodies our national identity with the technical acumen and skill actually needed to compete at a high level?

Croatia, as with the rest of the Balkan States, lives and breathes soccer. Seriously, I've seen beer-gutted 65-year-old men from the Balkans ball circles around Americans in their prime with a soccer ball. Soccer to them vs. the U.S. is like the U.S. with baseball compared to Afghanistan.

Sure, American soccer isn't nearly as developed as many of the other countries around the world. And maybe it should be with such a large population. But they did better than I thought they'd do in this.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Two things:

What big wins? Beating Spain once? Mexico? Portugal? 1/2 a German or Dutch team? Most top 15 nations get a couple big wins a year... we can't expect to excel beyond that?

And why can't it be a top 5 team. Croatia can be but the US can't? Portugal? Greece? That's ridiculous. Please, explain to me with all your insight into what is happening in American soccer why it can't be a top 5 team in 10 years? You are keyed in. We have been sustainable, and consistent... and mediocre. Using the USMNT to proliferate football players with balls at their feet isn't going to make us more competitive. We make win some games, but we will always be chasing. Always on the back foot. Always mediocre.

The realistic goal is to develop the right type of players, something the previous two regimes have failed to do. Pulisic is an example of the new type of player. Bobby Wood as well. And there are more of his type coming.

Croatia?

They're currently ranked 27 in the world, and other than a nice run in the '98 World Cup, haven't made it past the group stages since, and didn't even qualify for the 2010 WC. So not sure what the hell you're even talking about Croatia being a perennial top 5 program.

And sorry, until the US has a sustainable and unified academy youth program that's developing ALL our young players correctly and uniformly...........then nothing will change. We'll continue to pump out great athletes who just so happen to play soccer, which makes for a raw, under developed inconsistent type of soccer player. Some of the tools, but not all the tools. That takes a nation, not piece meal development trying to marry select programs, premiere programs, high school, college, and 3-4 separately owned and operated "pro" leagues.

 

[Uncle Si]

Just beat Spain and win their bracket in Euros... With young talent makingbig moves to European clubs.

So yeah. Croatia.

If you want (another) summary of the debelopment program I'm happy to give one. No country is all encompassing or uniform by the way.

 

[hawkfan68]

Si, I agree with you. You mentioned "basic skillset" in your earlier posts and I believe your take on it is spot on. The biggest issue is that US is struggling with the basic fundamentals of the game. Never mind the strategy and tactics. They struggle in touch, passing, marking, etc. Across the board compared to players from the other countries they lack the basic and technical discipline. That's the one thing that seems to never change.

U.S. covets strong, physical, speed, and athletic players but if none of them can master the basic fundamental skills then they are not going to have any impact. They may get lucky once in a blue moon but it's not consistent. That's the big problem. It's very simple to spot how outclassed the United States are in the basic tenets of the game. It's like a NFL team having a world class speedster who has hands of stone. Until he learns how to catch the football, he's not going to have a positive impact on the team.

Another big issue is that Americans philosophy is to make it exciting so it draws attendance. It's all about people watching it and driving people to games. Not about winning matches or being the best. They take shortcuts in this process. They want to "basketballize" the game. Lot's of speed, hard tackling, etc. That's not what they should be focusing on. They need to start working the smaller, basic things and when they have mastered that, then can start looking for guys that fit the other profiles. They go for the "fluff" rather than the real stuff and that mindset needs to change.

That's why countries like Jamaica Costa Rica, Guatamela can beat the US on any given day. Those teams rarely compete with top teams like the Dutch, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Spain, Germany, Croatia, etc.

 

[hawkfan68]

Two things:

What big wins? Beating Spain once? Mexico? Portugal? 1/2 a German or Dutch team? Most top 15 nations get a couple big wins a year... we can't expect to excel beyond that?

And why can't it be a top 5 team. Croatia can be but the US can't? Portugal? Greece? That's ridiculous. Please, explain to me with all your insight into what is happening in American soccer why it can't be a top 5 team in 10 years? You are keyed in. We have been sustainable, and consistent... and mediocre. Using the USMNT to proliferate football players with balls at their feet isn't going to make us more competitive. We make win some games, but we will always be chasing. Always on the back foot. Always mediocre.

The realistic goal is to develop the right type of players, something the previous two regimes have failed to do. Pulisic is an example of the new type of player. Bobby Wood as well. And there are more of his type coming.

Croatia?

They're currently ranked 27 in the world, and other than a nice run in the '98 World Cup, haven't made it past the group stages since, and didn't even qualify for the 2010 WC. So not sure what the hell you're even talking about Croatia being a perennial top 5 program.

And sorry, until the US has a sustainable and unified academy youth program that's developing ALL our young players correctly and uniformly...........then nothing will change. We'll continue to pump out great athletes who just so happen to play soccer, which makes for a raw, under developed inconsistent type of soccer player. Some of the tools, but not all the tools. That takes a nation, not piece meal development trying to marry select programs, premiere programs, high school, college, and 3-4 separately owned and operated "pro" leagues.

Croatia would run circles around USA even though they are ranked 27th. They play a better fundamental game than the Americans do. Technically they are much more sound than the U.S. That's a big difference but at least the United States can beat Canada....

 

[pmedic920]

Again my ignorance.

What prevents a NFL type league from forming?

Why hasn't there been a merger with the different leagues?

Is it coming any time soon, or will stay like it is for years to come?

 

[Uncle Si]

Again my ignorance.

What prevents a NFL type league from forming?

Why hasn't there been a merger with the different leagues?

Is it coming any time soon, or will stay like it is for years to come?

There are both intricate and wide spread professional leagues in almost every country in the world. The internationals (like the us) also participate in regional tournaments and qualifiers for the World Cup (every 4 years)

There's been talk of a European super league for the biggest clubs over there. But for the most part the leagues are extremely profitable and the sport is the most watched in the world.... By far.

 

[pmedic920]

Again my ignorance.

What prevents a NFL type league from forming?

Why hasn't there been a merger with the different leagues?

Is it coming any time soon, or will stay like it is for years to come?

There are both intricate and wide spread professional leagues in almost every country in the world. The internationals (like the us) also participate in regional tournaments and qualifiers for the World Cup (every 4 years)

There's been talk of a European super league for the biggest clubs over there. But for the most part the leagues are extremely profitable and the sport is the most watched in the world.... By far.

Well I kinda get it.
But what is preventing a National Soccer league in the US?

It seems to me the the "soccer folks" could see what the merger did for "real" football and they would want to capitalize.

Not only for financial reasons but what it did for the sport and athletes as well.

It's the multiple leagues here that I "don't get"

As an ignorant casual observer, I see premier players, playing in all the leagues here.
Why aren't they all playing in THE ONE PREMIER LEAGUE?

 

[Uncle Si]

There is a professional soccer league in the US

Saunders even have a team in it

 

[SeatownJay]

There is a professional soccer league in the US

Saunders even have a team in it

I think he's asking why all the top players aren't all playing in the same league. The simple answer to that is, of course, money.

 

[pmedic920]

There is a professional soccer league in the US

Saunders even have a team in it

Did you seriously think I didn't know there is professional soccer in the US?

I'm questioning why we have the multiple leagues that we have, and why not a merger into One major/top league ?

It seems to me that it would benefit the sport here in the US on many levels.

 

[SeatownJay]

Think of it like baseball, pmed. MLS is the equivalent of MLB, and NASL and USL are the minor leagues. They're important in that they give more players more options to develop.

 

[JSeahawks]

After defeat Messi says he's retiring from the national team.

http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/li ... a-america/

My guess is it was just a moment of weakness after a bitter loss, but we'll see.

 

[Uncle Si]

There is a professional soccer league in the US

Saunders even have a team in it

Did you seriously think I didn't know there is professional soccer in the US?

I'm questioning why we have the multiple leagues that we have, and why not a merger into One major/top league ?

It seems to me that it would benefit the sport here in the US on many levels.

Yes, I seriously did not think you knew, because the question you asked suggested it.

There are 3-4 "leagues" in the US. But the others are small, like Triple A baseball, but without major league funding. Those clubs and their players would suffer playing in the highest league.

 

[SeatownJay]

After defeat Messi says he's retiring from the national team.

http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/li ... a-america/

My guess is it was just a moment of weakness after a bitter loss, but we'll see.

There's a whole lot of drama, uncertainty, and general crap going on with the Argentinian FA right now. I'm sure that's playing a part in this, and Messi isn't the only player who's hinted at retiring from the national team.