Interesting stats for fans down on Geno and/or Russ

[SoulfishHawk]

They lost that as a team. Defense, Russ, Coaching, the entire team laid an egg. God, that game sucked a**

Seeing Pete get outcoached by McVay was a regular thing. Annoying af. And NO, Russ was not w/out a chunk of the blame. He was the QB. He needed to play better.

 

[McGruff]

He had multiple game winning drives during that stretch and 4th quarter heroics where he took over a game and won it on his own. His 2 minute stuff was maybe the best I've ever seen. People also forget that Lynch was good before Russ and became great with Russ. Some of that Russ deserves credit for because of his rushing ability. He rushed for almost 900 yards one year lol. The threat of his legs helped Lynch a ton and the zone read stuff was revolutionary at the time. You can't do that with Lynch and Geno or anyone else who is an average runner.

Now the first 3 years or so he wasn't called on to be the team for sure but he did win many games with game winning drives or 4th quarter magic. After the defense started to slip he was asked to to a large percentage of the teams success carried on his shoulders. He had a year where he had all but a couple of the teams touchdowns and they were still competitive. People seem to forget that. He also is one of the few elite guys who didn't have an elite dominant #1 receiver for a large portion of his career. He had Doug early on, an undrafted small WR.

As I'm writing this we may all see this from a slightly diffferent angle but man the team was constructed perfectly. I will always argue you don't win a SB without any of the pieces being gone ie Lynch, Wilson, SHerman, Thomas etc. Crazy.

Don’t you slander ABD like that.

 

[pittpnthrs]

All of the above.

Fair

 

[Ozzy]

The dichotomy is less about Geno vs. Russ and more about people bending over backward to excuse Russell's failings while doing the opposite for Geno.

This is all an outgrowth of the failed Let Russ Cook movement. Many in our fanbase bought into that narrative, blaming everyone but Russ for the team's failure. Most have moved on, given that it's clear Russell wasn't free of blame. However, there remains a small contingent of fans who are still trying to square that circle, battling with the dissonance of Russ falling flat on his face in Denver, their entire narrative collapsing, all while watching Seattle's offense not fall off dramatically with Geno.

This group's only option is diminishing Geno by comparing his recent seasons with the all-time peak of Seahawks football.

I’ve said all along Geno is a very good QB. I don’t put him in the top 10 like you guys do and think that’s a little crazy imo. Geno has had one half of a season of great football and a season and a half of good football.

But I would argue there are more Russ haters than Russ apologists on this site who are doing exactly what you’re claiming the other side is doing. Regardless it probably doesn’t matter as there is a contingent of both guilty of this.

I don’t think it’s hyperbolic to say Russ has had much more success and therefore a better QB than Geno at this point. I think that’s an objective fact. Someone can hold that view and also recognize it’s pretty dam cool what Geno was able to do after 10 years of being what most consider as a failure. It’s rare what he’s done. I think he’s slightly overrated by people who hate Russ but can still respect what he’s done.

 

[Ozzy]

Don’t you slander ABD like that.

I love Baldwin. We had a cool exchange on twitter years ago that made me respect him even more.

 

[McGruff]

I love Baldwin. We had a cool exchange on twitter years ago that made me respect him even more.

Awesome. One of my favorite players ever.

 

[Ozzy]

Awesome. One of my favorite players ever.

How could you not. From being not big enough(he’s tiny in person), to being too slow, not fast enough etc and ending up being one of the most consistent guys in the league is incredible. He was never an elite, alpha #1 but he maximized his talents as well as anyone.

 

[knownone]

I’ve said all along Geno is a very good QB. I don’t put him in the top 10 like you guys do and think that’s a little crazy imo. Geno has had one half of a season of great football and a season and a half of good football.

But I would argue there are more Russ haters than Russ apologists on this site who are doing exactly what you’re claiming the other side is doing. Regardless it probably doesn’t matter as there is a contingent of both guilty of this.

I don’t think it’s hyperbolic to say Russ has had much more success and therefore a better QB than Geno at this point. I think that’s an objective fact. Someone can hold that view and also recognize it’s pretty dam cool what Geno was able to do after 10 years of being what most consider as a failure. It’s rare what he’s done. I think he’s slightly overrated by people who hate Russ but can still respect what he’s done.

When have I ever put Geno in the top ten? I've posted stats showing him in the top ten, and I will defend the validity of those stats and his rank within them. But my stance has always been that Geno is an above-average starting quarterback, based on the fact that he's been in the top 16 in most significant metrics. Where he ranks numerically in a best QB list is irrelevant to me.

And I would argue that judging by your post history, you are more aligned with Russ apologists than Russ haters.

Sure. It's not hyperbolic to say Russ has had more success than Geno. But let's be honest; no one has ever argued that Geno is more successful than Wilson. A better fit in Seattle? Better at this point in their careers? Sure. But more successful in totality? Who is saying that?

 

[calinator]

I like Geno overall. His biggest issue that I see is a lack of zip on passes or a little late decision making. So many times it worries me when he will make a sideline/comeback throw and the ball seems to float/not have much velocity behind it and I get worried the DB will break in and pick it off/bat it down.

 

[McGruff]

This guy . . .

 

[Ozzy]

When have I ever put Geno in the top ten? I've posted stats showing him in the top ten, and I will defend the validity of those stats and his rank within them. But my stance has always been that Geno is an above-average starting quarterback, based on the fact that he's been in the top 16 in most significant metrics. Where he ranks numerically in a best QB list is irrelevant to me.

And I would argue that judging by your post history, you are more aligned with Russ apologists than Russ haters.

Sure. It's not hyperbolic to say Russ has had more success than Geno. But let's be honest; no one has ever argued that Geno is more successful than Wilson. A better fit in Seattle? Better at this point in their careers? Sure. But more successful in totality? Who is saying that?

People have argued exactly that, Geno is a better QB than Wilson and they’re done it numerous times. Now maybe you haven’t but others have.

Sure I probably align with Russ sympathizers more than the ardent Geno crowd but there is nothing wrong with that right? Just as you align more with the pro Geno crowd and there is nothing wrong with that either. I’m biased of course but I think Im a little more for to Geno than many of your crowd is to Russ. In most Geno conversations I’m fair to Geno and point out his strong points almost every time. The stuff that is often said about Russ borders on ridiculous.

 

[McGruff]

People have argued exactly that, Geno is a better QB than Wilson and they’re done it numerous times. Now maybe you haven’t but others have.

Sure I probably align with Russ sympathizers more than the ardent Geno crowd but there is nothing wrong with that right? Just as you align more with the pro Geno crowd and there is nothing wrong with that either. I’m biased of course but I think Im a little more for to Geno than many of your crowd is to Russ. In most Geno conversations I’m fair to Geno and point out his strong points almost every time. The stuff that is often said about Russ borders on ridiculous.

Like he isn’t black enough?

 

[Ozzy]

Like he isn’t black enough?

Yeah I would argue that’s ridiculous lol

 

[knownone]

People have argued exactly that, Geno is a better QB than Wilson and they’re done it numerous times. Now maybe you haven’t but others have.

Sure I probably align with Russ sympathizers more than the ardent Geno crowd but there is nothing wrong with that right? Just as you align more with the pro Geno crowd and there is nothing wrong with that either. I’m biased of course but I think Im a little more for to Geno than many of your crowd is to Russ. In most Geno conversations I’m fair to Geno and point out his strong points almost every time. The stuff that is often said about Russ borders on ridiculous.

Are you saying people have argued that Geno had a more successful career than Russell? Or do I misunderstand your meaning of the phrase more successful? If so, I'd love to see an example.

Again, I don't view this as Geno vs. Russ. I am pro-Geno because he's our quarterback and grades out reasonably well. He battled a significant injury last season and set the NFL record for comebacks in a season, yet about 40% of our fanbase acts like he's a replacement-level starter. They call his pro bowls a joke and dismiss his rankings: PFF, QBR, SR, etc.

I am not anti-Russ. My only thoughts on Russ are that he and his camp handled the Let Russ Cook situation poorly. It seemed clear that many of the Seahawks' offensive problems were as much his fault as anyone's. And his post-Seattle career has been such a trainwreck that he'll probably never win that argument. Also, let's be very, very clear. Russ brought most of the hate on himself. He tried to get his GM and coach fired, threw his teammates under the bus, and forced his way out of town. It's not like he left amicably, and suddenly, people started throwing shade at him.

 

[Ozzy]

Are you saying people have argued that Geno had a more successful career than Russell? Or do I misunderstand your meaning of the phrase more successful? If so, I'd love to see an example.

Again, I don't view this as Geno vs. Russ. I am pro-Geno because he's our quarterback and grades out reasonably well. He battled a significant injury last season and set the NFL record for comebacks in a season, yet about 40% of our fanbase acts like he's a replacement-level starter. They call his pro bowls a joke and dismiss his rankings: PFF, QBR, SR, etc.

I am not anti-Russ. My only thoughts on Russ are that he and his camp handled the Let Russ Cook situation poorly. It seemed clear that many of the Seahawks' offensive problems were as much his fault as anyone's. And his post-Seattle career has been such a trainwreck that he'll probably never win that argument. Also, let's be very, very clear. Russ brought most of the hate on himself. He tried to get his GM and coach fired, threw his teammates under the bus, and forced his way out of town. It's not like he left amicably, and suddenly, people started throwing shade at him.

I don’t think people have argued Geno has had a more successful career but they’ve argued that Geno is flat out the better QB irrespective of length of success.

On your last point I’ve said multiple times I get why people dislike him for how it all ended and he definitely deserves a lot of the blame for that. I think in some ways he was partially right but that’s a topic for another thread. I also think in some ways Russ was 100% wrong. It was ugly and handled very poorly by Russ and he should’ve went about it much differently.

My contention has been the many people who try to claim Russ was never that good, the teams success had almost nothing to do with him etc. as that is wildly incorrect.

 

[knownone]

I don’t think people have argued Geno has had a more successful career but they’ve argued that Geno is flat out the better QB irrespective of length of success.

On your last point I’ve said multiple times I get why people dislike him for how it all ended and he definitely deserves a lot of the blame for that. I think in some ways he was partially right but that’s a topic for another thread. I also think in some ways Russ was 100% wrong. It was ugly and handled very poorly by Russ and he should’ve went about it much differently.

My contention has been the many people who try to claim Russ was never that good, the teams success had almost nothing to do with him etc. as that is wildly incorrect.

Gotcha. I disagree with that perspective, but it is not entirely unreasonable. Geno's two seasons as a starter are right in line with Russell's career averages. Russell's style, as evidenced by the Sean Payton controversy, is one that some people do not like. He's not a traditional timing and rhythm quarterback. Statistically, he's a highly volatile QB. And, as his movement slowed, his down-to-down performance became even more unpredictable. The issue for Geno is that he doesn't have the sample size to even be in that conversation. He needs a few more years, like 2022, for that to become a legitimate discussion.

Unfortunately, Wilson's departure opened him up to that criticism. I said it during the trade: If he failed in Denver, right or wrong, his legacy in Seattle would be scrutinized. He shot his shot, said the Seahawks were holding him back, and walked right into Denver and off the nearest Rocky Mountain. It's not fair to say he was never good. But it's 100% an open debate whether his success was partially a product of his situation, and his HoF consideration went from a near certainty to a maybe in two seasons.

 

[themunn]

I beg your pardon: We got "rid" of Russell "in favor" of Geno? Russell wanted out, waived his no trade clause and couldn't get out of town fast enough. Geno just happened to be the backup quarterback, and he won a QB competition with Drew Lock.

Please, tell me that you misspoke and need to re-word your thoughts.

Russell also wanted out before the 2019 season (to the Giants ideally, "Russ wants New York") before he signed the new deal, and before the 2021 season, if you recall. So just because he wanted out didn't mean we had to get rid of him, otherwise we would have done so. We did it when the time was right for the team.

I’ve said all along Geno is a very good QB. I don’t put him in the top 10 like you guys do and think that’s a little crazy imo. Geno has had one half of a season of great football and a season and a half of good football.

But I would argue there are more Russ haters than Russ apologists on this site who are doing exactly what you’re claiming the other side is doing. Regardless it probably doesn’t matter as there is a contingent of both guilty of this.

I don’t think it’s hyperbolic to say Russ has had much more success and therefore a better QB than Geno at this point. I think that’s an objective fact. Someone can hold that view and also recognize it’s pretty dam cool what Geno was able to do after 10 years of being what most consider as a failure. It’s rare what he’s done. I think he’s slightly overrated by people who hate Russ but can still respect what he’s done.

Looking at their careers in aggregate only the must stubborn fool would try and argue A: that Geno has had a better career than Wilson and B: that Wilson was in the conversation as a potential HoF guy until 2.5 years ago.

But looking at them a year or two ago, Geno @ $25m APY vs Wilson @ $49m is a no-brainer, Wilson wasn't worth double what Geno brought, and Geno's numbers are aligned with QBs getting paid $40m APY. Wilson at the Pittsburgh for $1.2m this year I think is daylight robbery and a steal and it's very possible that with that low cap hit and ability to fill out roster elsewhere that the Steelers look really good this year with Wilson. But I also fully believe that if our offense is able to avoid significant injuries this year that Geno has the ability to put up numbers that would have him in the MVP conversation.

I've said it many times in the past but Abe Lucas is far more important to this team than I think many realise. In admittedly a small sample size last year, Geno put up 70/109 for 784 yards, 7 TDs and 1 Int when Lucas was on the field (103.1 QB rating), vs 263/380 for 2840 yards, 13 TDs and 8 Ints when he wasn't. Lock also had the benefit of playing against the Niners and Eagles with Lucas and also looked almost serviceable in those moments. Geno's 2023 numbers when Lucas is on the field look much more like his 2022 numbers where Lucas played 16 games.

 

[Ozzy]

Russell also wanted out before the 2019 season (to the Giants ideally, "Russ wants New York") before he signed the new deal, and before the 2021 season, if you recall. So just because he wanted out didn't mean we had to get rid of him, otherwise we would have done so. We did it when the time was right for the team.



Looking at their careers in aggregate only the must stubborn fool would try and argue A: that Geno has had a better career than Wilson and B: that Wilson was in the conversation as a potential HoF guy until 2.5 years ago.

But looking at them a year or two ago, Geno @ $25m APY vs Wilson @ $49m is a no-brainer, Wilson wasn't worth double what Geno brought, and Geno's numbers are aligned with QBs getting paid $40m APY. Wilson at the Pittsburgh for $1.2m this year I think is daylight robbery and a steal and it's very possible that with that low cap hit and ability to fill out roster elsewhere that the Steelers look really good this year with Wilson. But I also fully believe that if our offense is able to avoid significant injuries this year that Geno has the ability to put up numbers that would have him in the MVP conversation.

I've said it many times in the past but Abe Lucas is far more important to this team than I think many realise. In admittedly a small sample size last year, Geno put up 70/109 for 784 yards, 7 TDs and 1 Int when Lucas was on the field (103.1 QB rating), vs 263/380 for 2840 yards, 13 TDs and 8 Ints when he wasn't. Lock also had the benefit of playing against the Niners and Eagles with Lucas and also looked almost serviceable in those moments. Geno's 2023 numbers when Lucas is on the field look much more like his 2022 numbers where Lucas played 16 games.

I hope you're right on the lucas front and at face value it deserves some merit for sure! I'm more skeptical than most on here about Geno but I fully recognize he has played very good football for long stretches of time too. I'm really hoping Lucas being healthy, Cross evolving and Grubb can reallly bring the best out of all of them. The talent is there for them to be a really good offense.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Wilson>>>Geno for a career.

Mahomes has been meh in the Superbowl minus 1 game. It shows you usually need a team to win.