Is Russell Wilson worth extending?

[SeaChase]

It's basically taboo around here to mention Wilson's flaws. When you're winning it doesn't matter. But now that the defense isn't as good nor the running game, Wilson is being asked to be more than a "game manager" and it doesn't seem to be working out that great. Two WR's have gone to other teams and have done well almost immediately. I'm not sure what "logic" people need: some more 3 and outs, missing easy throws, not seeing open WR's down field... :stirthepot:

Posts like these are why football fans are simply the worst.

Golden Tate is in a much more pass-friendly offense than he ever was here in Seattle.

Percy Harvin "doing well" is hilarious since he had most of his yards in his biggest game of the year in a game that was over in the first half.

He's had a handful of bad games in his career and suddenly we're talking about letting him walk, replacing him with Marcus Mariota or KYLE ORTON?

Seriously.. stop.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I never stated to replace him. On the other side of the coin "this is why football fans are the worst" because I point out Wilson's flaws you jump to major conclusions? This is the aspect I'm talking about.

So Percy did awesome in a game that didn't matter yet Wilson has his worst game against a 0-7 team that doesn't matter= similar logic.

 

[rain7]

The question I have is, are ANY qbs worth 18 mill plus?

Having a great qb seems to guarantee a competitive team, but I wonder in the age of capped/locked rookie deals, if allocating such a large amount of your cap makes sense.

It's a new world... russel wilson, luck, kap(till this year)and foles are the first of a new era of cap mgmt and the qb position.

Personally, I think cap allocation in terms of %, will come down in the next few years.

 

[AgentDib]

Cap allocation in terms of % should stay about the same (or rise) because the positions that have a learning curve are probably affected the least by cheap youth (QB/DB/WR). Christine Michael aside, many RBs come in and play right away which is why we have seen cap allocation % towards the RB position shrink. I think WR will be the big winners of the salary cap increases as the rules continue to make the game safer for them and limit defenses. Calvin Johnson has $20m+ cap hits the next few years and I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see the top dozen receivers start to enter that range.

Right now the young QB success in 2012 is looking like an anomaly. We've had plenty of QBs drafted since then and none of them have anywhere the same impact. Manuel, Geno Smith, Glennon, Barkley, Nassib, Tyler Wilson, Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater, Carr, Garoppolo, Logan Thomas, Tom Savage, etc.

 

[peppersjap]

Is it not interesting how Tate is flourishing and Harvin after one week of Jets offense can put up 130 yards? An OC teaches and develops the entire offense. He creates the offense and then calls the play. I think if we got rid of Bevell that Wilson will be a top three QB. He runs the same offense he played in college and it just does not work in a faster NFL. No adjustments to what their defense is doing to Wilson. Keep Wilson, dump Bevell.

Do you really not see the difference between the Lions offense and ours? There was no doubt Tate was going to have a huge year in a pass happy offense especially when megatron has been out. As for Harvin everyone knows he has talent, he is a complete stud if he can play. He was a head case who was destroying the locker room, if that wasn't the case there is no way they give him away for basically nothing. I wish we still had Tate but there is no way he puts those numbers up here.

 

[PackerBacker19]

If I may offer my opinion, Russell Wilson is worth extending. However, maybe he should not be extended for a huge contract. The new fad in the NFL is paying your young quarterback even when they sometime haven’t earned it (Kaepernick Dalton Flacco). Wilson deserves an extension, but with the way he’s playing right now he doesn’t deserve a huge contract. I realize he doesn’t have a great O line, and offensive weapons, but great quarterbacks will still play great without those things. Aaron Rodgers is a good example of this. For several years he had no O line or running game. He was still great. Russell Wilson did win a Super Bowl, but it looks right now like the driving force for that was the defense and Sir Beastmode. Also, guys Rodgers is the best quarterback in the NFL. No one can combine the accuracy, throwing power, mobility, and decision making he has. If Rodgers had the Seahawks D he probably would have won several championships by now.

 

[RiverDog]

:thcoffee:

Let's take it down a notch here, and remember that everyone has an opinion, and not all of them are palatable.

To silence an outside-the-box thought is NOT going to happen, provided that opinion is presented within the board rules.

A reminder that anyone can select another topic to read and contribute to by just a few, simple, keystrokes, and a mouse click.

Amen. Give the guy his space. It's a legitimate topic.

We definitely resign Russell, at least at this point in his career. We have no choice. A more difficult decision lies 5 years down the road, when his running ability begins to diminish. I am not convinced that he can make the adjustment to relying primarily on his arm to play the position.

 

[Spin Doctor]

:thcoffee:

Let's take it down a notch here, and remember that everyone has an opinion, and not all of them are palatable.

To silence an outside-the-box thought is NOT going to happen, provided that opinion is presented within the board rules.

A reminder that anyone can select another topic to read and contribute to by just a few, simple, keystrokes, and a mouse click.

Amen. Give the guy his space. It's a legitimate topic.

We definitely resign Russell, at least at this point in his career. We have no choice. A more difficult decision lies 5 years down the road, when his running ability begins to diminish. I am not convinced that he can make the adjustment to relying primarily on his arm to play the position.

To everyone's credit I'll be the first to admit, I've been a bit abrasive in this conversation.

 

[hawkfan68]

Russell Wilson will get paid on his next deal. It's inevitable. No matter how his numbers may look this year. Andy Dalton and Jay Cutler are getting paid. They are much worse than Wilson. Wilson is the top QB on the team that won the most recent Superbowl. He's getting his money.

 

[SonicHawk]

The fact is that RW led your team to a Superbowl and he's currently 6-3 in the following year. No, he's not Peyton or Brees or Brady, he's not even Luck this year (but who is).

What he is is the perfect QB for your system and he's a safe bet. He doesn't take chances like some QBs, he doesn't get hit, like most mobile QBs, and when he's on? He's really really on.

RW has been inconsistent this year. He hasn't been as good as he was last year, but you're not going to replace him with anyone better. His floor is still higher than a Tannehill or a Palmer, his ceiling is higher than anyone like them.

Unless your bringing in Manning, you don't replace a proven commodity with an unknown.

 

[MORGULON]

If I may offer my opinion, Russell Wilson is worth extending. However, maybe he should not be extended for a huge contract. The new fad in the NFL is paying your young quarterback even when they sometime haven’t earned it (Kaepernick Dalton Flacco). Wilson deserves an extension, but with the way he’s playing right now he doesn’t deserve a huge contract. I realize he doesn’t have a great O line, and offensive weapons, but great quarterbacks will still play great without those things. Aaron Rodgers is a good example of this. For several years he had no O line or running game. He was still great. Russell Wilson did win a Super Bowl, but it looks right now like the driving force for that was the defense and Sir Beastmode. Also, guys Rodgers is the best quarterback in the NFL. No one can combine the accuracy, throwing power, mobility, and decision making he has. If Rodgers had the Seahawks D he probably would have won several championships by now.

But he doesn't and he hasn't. Makes really funny commercials though.Russell Wilson hasn't even peaked as he is only in 3rd NFL season. Wilson also started as a rookie which is impessive to me.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I never stated to replace him. On the other side of the coin "this is why football fans are the worst" because I point out Wilson's flaws you jump to major conclusions? This is the aspect I'm talking about.

So Percy did awesome in a game that didn't matter yet Wilson has his worst game against a 0-7 team that doesn't matter= similar logic.

Bringing up garbage time stats for a WR is something that doesn't matter. Especially when you're basically insinuating that Harvin immediately did better when he got away from Russell Wilson.

Then you do the same thing regarding Golden Tate.. and well if you really think the Lions offense and the Seahawks offense are comparable.. that's a laughable take.

No one is saying Wilson played good against the Raiders. Nor should that one game dictate whether or not he should be extended.

 

[Anthony!]

You know it is funny how after he played lights out in 5 of the first 6 games no one here was talking smack but now that he has struggled in his last three some come out of the woodworks. Lets look at this for a minute

game 1 19/28 191 yards, 68% complt%, 2tds, qb rating 111, 29 yards rushing
game 2 17/25 202 yards, 68% complt%, 2 tds, qb rating 119, 18 rushing yards
game 3 24/34 258 yards, 71% complt%, 2 tds, qb rating 100, 40 yards rushing
game 4 18/24, 201 yards, 75% complt%, 2 tds, qb rating 127, 133 yards rushing and a td
game 5 14/28, 126 yards, 50% complt%, 0 tds, qb rating 48, 12 yards rushing 1 td
game 6 23/36, 313 yards, 64% complt%, 2 tds, qb rain110, 106 yards rushing 1 td
game 7 20/32, 199 yards, 63% complt%, 1 td, qb rating 78, 25 yards rushing
game 8 17/35, 179 yards, 49% complt%, 0 tds, qb rating 64, 31 yards rushing
game 9 10/17, 172 yards, 59% complt%, 0 tds, qb rating 54, 107 yards rushing 1 td

So lets start with his in accuracy, 60% in the mark for a good complt%, and Wilson has only been below that 3 times. Guess what Luck has been below it 4 times, Brady 2 times, Manning 1 time, Rodgers 3 times. In other words it happens to all great QBs. For me it is not how good a QB is when he is hot, or everything is going great, but how good is he when things are not going well, doe she find a way to help his team win anyway and for Wilson that is a resounding YES.

We are 2-1 in the 3 games were Wilsons Complt% is below 60. Lets look at the 2 we won, that is Oak and NY

Oakland we won 30-24 we scores 2 Offensive TDs and 3 fgs. FIrst TD was a LM td run. In that drive Wilson went 2-2 to include a 3rd and 5 pass, and he runs for 3 yards. Wilson found a way to help the team score. 2nd td Lynch TD run, however Wilson goes 5-6 for 42 yards and 3 rushing again setting up the TD and this included a 3rd and 8 completion. I think you get the idea.

Now as to the Giant game, well over 100 yards rushing and on 1st TD 2-2 for 55 yards. 2nd td 35 yards rushing and 2-2 for 14 yards. 3rd td 11 yards rushing only threw 1 pass. 4th TD 2-3 passing 19 yards and 18 yards rushing and this included a 3rd and 8 conversion on a pass. 5th TD Wilson ran it in for the TD.


As you can see even though his throwing has been off complt% wise for 2 games he has still found ways to help this team score. Things that a lot of other QBs could not do and once again doing it with way less talent around them then he has. Jut so we do not forget

Luck – 3rd pass blocking o-line and has TY Hilton, Wyane, Nicks to throw to
P Manning- 2nd pass blocking o-line and he has Thomas, Welker, Sanders
Brady 7th ranked pass blocking o-line (ours is now ranked 28th) and he has Gronk, Edelman
Rodger o-line ranked 17th in pass blocking and has Nelson, Cobb to throw to
Brees o-line ranked 6th and he has Graham, cooks, Colson,
Ryan 12th pass blocking o-line and he has Hester, Jones, White, Smith
Rivers 11th o-line, and he has Gates, Floyd, Royal, Allen

Wilson 22nd ranked pass blocking oline and he has Baldwin, Kearse, TE-Wilson


Please show me were any of these QB has it worse than Wilson. Answer you cannot, because they all have it better, either or better line or WRs or both.

That is why you resign him because he can do more with less, and he has shown he can do it always. He can run duh over 500 0yards, He can scramble to help his oline and wr. He can throw on the run, career over 60% complt% on the run and qb rating 90, and of course he can throw form the pocket, career over 60% complt and over 90 qb rating from the pocket. Here are some links to read and consider

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/11/6/716 ... elp-bandit

http://regressing.deadspin.com/charts-w ... 1469917039

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -scramble/

notice on the one above Wilson has a 66.1% complt% and accuracy of 72.6%. As far as Complt% that puts him above 2/3rd of the QBs listed to include Luck. Also notice his accuracy of 72.6% that is also above 2/3rd of the QBs to include Luck. In fact Wilson was ranked 9th in the pocket amongst all QBs, so that excuse is not true.

Long story short you have a talent like Wilson who has shown you he can always find a way to help us win even when not at his best, and with way less talent you keep him, and find ways to put more talent around hi. and sorry but the excuse if we pay him we cannot get more talent is not true as all those QBs listed above except Luck have been paid and still have way more talent around them. With Luck they got the talent around him before they had to pay him, we did not.


So as the facts, and stats clearly show Wilson is a huge reason for our winning the last 2+ years and without a doubt gets resigned or extended. No doubt.

 

[MeanBlueGreen]

This may sound like sacrilege to many to the 9th degree, but it has been a question that has been nagging at the back of my mind for awhile. Wilson is going to due a huge pay day soon somewhere in the range of 120 million dollars. He is going to be one of the best, if not the best paid Quarterback in the NFL. This means the roster is going to have to undergo a serious makeover. No longer can we have big free agent acquisitions, this contract will certainly mean letting go of a few contributors on our team at this moment. We won the superbowl last year largely to a team that was good in all phases of the game. We can no longer count on that to be the case in the future, as we're already starting to see this season.

In lieu of the looming future the question I'm asking myself is: Can Wilson carry the team, can he be that elite QB that can carry the team on his back. If we re-sign him Wilson is going to have to shoulder a much larger burden, as it is going to cost the team in a few extra areas.

Russell Wilson is a good Quarterback, certainly better than the washed up Hasselbeck, the Flynns, TJs, and Whitehursts of this world. I have my doubts though as to whether he can transcend his point guard Quarterback status.

No, we should dump that loser and resign Hasselbeck for pennies on the dollar.

Matt is Maaaannn!

:sarcasm_on:

 

[RolandDeschain]

 

[Spin Doctor]

This may sound like sacrilege to many to the 9th degree, but it has been a question that has been nagging at the back of my mind for awhile. Wilson is going to due a huge pay day soon somewhere in the range of 120 million dollars. He is going to be one of the best, if not the best paid Quarterback in the NFL. This means the roster is going to have to undergo a serious makeover. No longer can we have big free agent acquisitions, this contract will certainly mean letting go of a few contributors on our team at this moment. We won the superbowl last year largely to a team that was good in all phases of the game. We can no longer count on that to be the case in the future, as we're already starting to see this season.

In lieu of the looming future the question I'm asking myself is: Can Wilson carry the team, can he be that elite QB that can carry the team on his back. If we re-sign him Wilson is going to have to shoulder a much larger burden, as it is going to cost the team in a few extra areas.

Russell Wilson is a good Quarterback, certainly better than the washed up Hasselbeck, the Flynns, TJs, and Whitehursts of this world. I have my doubts though as to whether he can transcend his point guard Quarterback status.

No, we should dump that loser and resign Hasselbeck for pennies on the dollar.

Matt is Maaaannn!

:sarcasm_on:

I would take Hasselbeck in his prime over Russell Wilson, no joke. Hasselbeck was truly elite in 2007. He had no running game, a terrible O-Line, and mediocre receivers yet he was virtually unstoppable.

 

[Anthony!]

LOL I think I remember that episode.

 

[Seahawks1983]

 

[Spin Doctor]

You know it is funny how after he played lights out in 5 of the first 6 games no one here was talking smack but now that he has struggled in his last three some come out of the woodworks. Lets look at this for a minute

game 1 19/28 191 yards, 68% complt%, 2tds, qb rating 111, 29 yards rushing
game 2 17/25 202 yards, 68% complt%, 2 tds, qb rating 119, 18 rushing yards
game 3 24/34 258 yards, 71% complt%, 2 tds, qb rating 100, 40 yards rushing
game 4 18/24, 201 yards, 75% complt%, 2 tds, qb rating 127, 133 yards rushing and a td
game 5 14/28, 126 yards, 50% complt%, 0 tds, qb rating 48, 12 yards rushing 1 td
game 6 23/36, 313 yards, 64% complt%, 2 tds, qb rain110, 106 yards rushing 1 td
game 7 20/32, 199 yards, 63% complt%, 1 td, qb rating 78, 25 yards rushing
game 8 17/35, 179 yards, 49% complt%, 0 tds, qb rating 64, 31 yards rushing
game 9 10/17, 172 yards, 59% complt%, 0 tds, qb rating 54, 107 yards rushing 1 td

So lets start with his in accuracy, 60% in the mark for a good complt%, and Wilson has only been below that 3 times. Guess what Luck has been below it 4 times, Brady 2 times, Manning 1 time, Rodgers 3 times. In other words it happens to all great QBs. For me it is not how good a QB is when he is hot, or everything is going great, but how good is he when things are not going well, doe she find a way to help his team win anyway and for Wilson that is a resounding YES.

We are 2-1 in the 3 games were Wilsons Complt% is below 60. Lets look at the 2 we won, that is Oak and NY

Oakland we won 30-24 we scores 2 Offensive TDs and 3 fgs. FIrst TD was a LM td run. In that drive Wilson went 2-2 to include a 3rd and 5 pass, and he runs for 3 yards. Wilson found a way to help the team score. 2nd td Lynch TD run, however Wilson goes 5-6 for 42 yards and 3 rushing again setting up the TD and this included a 3rd and 8 completion. I think you get the idea.

Now as to the Giant game, well over 100 yards rushing and on 1st TD 2-2 for 55 yards. 2nd td 35 yards rushing and 2-2 for 14 yards. 3rd td 11 yards rushing only threw 1 pass. 4th TD 2-3 passing 19 yards and 18 yards rushing and this included a 3rd and 8 conversion on a pass. 5th TD Wilson ran it in for the TD.


As you can see even though his throwing has been off complt% wise for 2 games he has still found ways to help this team score. Things that a lot of other QBs could not do and once again doing it with way less talent around them then he has. Jut so we do not forget

Luck – 3rd pass blocking o-line and has TY Hilton, Wyane, Nicks to throw to
P Manning- 2nd pass blocking o-line and he has Thomas, Welker, Sanders
Brady 7th ranked pass blocking o-line (ours is now ranked 28th) and he has Gronk, Edelman
Rodger o-line ranked 17th in pass blocking and has Nelson, Cobb to throw to
Brees o-line ranked 6th and he has Graham, cooks, Colson,
Ryan 12th pass blocking o-line and he has Hester, Jones, White, Smith
Rivers 11th o-line, and he has Gates, Floyd, Royal, Allen

Wilson 22nd ranked pass blocking oline and he has Baldwin, Kearse, TE-Wilson


Please show me were any of these QB has it worse than Wilson. Answer you cannot, because they all have it better, either or better line or WRs or both.

That is why you resign him because he can do more with less, and he has shown he can do it always. He can run duh over 500 0yards, He can scramble to help his oline and wr. He can throw on the run, career over 60% complt% on the run and qb rating 90, and of course he can throw form the pocket, career over 60% complt and over 90 qb rating from the pocket. Here are some links to read and consider

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/11/6/716 ... elp-bandit

http://regressing.deadspin.com/charts-w ... 1469917039

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -scramble/

notice on the one above Wilson has a 66.1% complt% and accuracy of 72.6%. As far as Complt% that puts him above 2/3rd of the QBs listed to include Luck. Also notice his accuracy of 72.6% that is also above 2/3rd of the QBs to include Luck. In fact Wilson was ranked 9th in the pocket amongst all QBs, so that excuse is not true.

Long story short you have a talent like Wilson who has shown you he can always find a way to help us win even when not at his best, and with way less talent you keep him, and find ways to put more talent around hi. and sorry but the excuse if we pay him we cannot get more talent is not true as all those QBs listed above except Luck have been paid and still have way more talent around them. With Luck they got the talent around him before they had to pay him, we did not.


So as the facts, and stats clearly show Wilson is a huge reason for our winning the last 2+ years and without a doubt gets resigned or extended. No doubt.

How many times do I have to tell you, O-line rankings are meaningless when it comes to pass protection. The passer is just as important as the physical line when it comes to pass protection. Why is it that when Manning lost Clady, one of the better LT's in the league, he still was one of the least sacked QB's? It is because he has a quick release, and he gets rid of the ball quickly. Almost always mobile QB's have a much higher sack rate than guys such as Manning, Brady, etc, that isn't any coincidence.

Is our line bad? Hell yeah, I see lots of blown blocks and missed assignments, but things could be better, especially during certain games where our line was actually playing well. Wilson led the league in what is called "coverage sacks" by PFF. A coverage sack is as it sounds, a QB is sacked because he holds onto the ball too long, it isn't necessarily caused by receivers. Wilson also held onto the ball for a very long time, in fact no other QB held the ball for more time than him. I doubt that this will ever improve even with a better line, I think he'll always be one of the most sacked QB's in the NFL due to how he plays the game.

 

[AgentDib]

Wilson led the league in what is called "coverage sacks" by PFF... I doubt that this will ever improve even with a better line, I think he'll always be one of the most sacked QB's in the NFL due to how he plays the game.

You can look at that stat in both directions. Mobile QBs do take more sacks because they are extending plays, but the benefit of that is they extend plays. Peyton Manning is never sacked after 8 seconds because he never makes it to the 8 second mark without being sacked. It's an interesting stat purely on it's own merits but should never be used to rate QB production over stuff like WPA>SR%>YPA.

I do agree with your larger point that most OL comparison metrics (PFF) do not tell the whole story. They tend to be garbage due to different schemes, play calling and QBs dominating factors relating to the OL themselves.

 

[hawknation2014]

How many times do I have to tell you, O-line rankings are meaningless when it comes to pass protection. The passer is just as important as the physical line when it comes to pass protection. Why is it that when Manning lost Clady, one of the better LT's in the league, he still was one of the least sacked QB's? It is because he has a quick release, and he gets rid of the ball quickly. Almost always mobile QB's have a much higher sack rate than guys such as Manning, Brady, etc, that isn't any coincidence.

Is our line bad? Hell yeah, I see lots of blown blocks and missed assignments, but things could be better, especially during certain games where our line was actually playing well. Wilson led the league in what is called "coverage sacks" by PFF. A coverage sack is as it sounds, a QB is sacked because he holds onto the ball too long, it isn't necessarily caused by receivers. Wilson also held onto the ball for a very long time, in fact no other QB held the ball for more time than him. I doubt that this will ever improve even with a better line, I think he'll always be one of the most sacked QB's in the NFL due to how he plays the game.

Manning also has a plethora of receivers who get open in under 2.5 seconds. Wilson is a young QB working with a young receiving corps. Baldwin is probably playing out of position at split end. Kearse and RIchardson have not done a great job at getting open. Norwood is barely playing. He has no TE who can get open and catch the ball reliably.

Wilson gets off just 48% of his throws in 2.5 seconds or less. However, when he does get the ball off in that time, he is one of the best QBs in the league, completing 73.8% of those throws with a QB rating of 112.2. On throws over 2.5 seconds, he completes just 48.2% with a 61.7 rating.

It's foolhardy to assume he won't get better at completing more of his throws in 2.5 seconds, when he has been elite. He's only in his 3rd season. Expect him to get better, especially as his receiving corps matures.