Jon Gruden and Raiders parting ways.

[cymatica]

To all of you “real men” on the defensive front, don’t worry….Gruden will remain rich and white. Soon to be on the rally tour fighting for the rights of the most marginalized group in America. Lulz

What's the difference between rich and white and any other color? Seriously. I know whites and non whites who are very successful and they all worked hard for what they have, so please educate me because the only difference I see is how other people automatically judge their skin color without knowing jack about what they experienced in life.

 

[cymatica]

To all of you “real men” on the defensive front, don’t worry….Gruden will remain rich and white. Soon to be on the rally tour fighting for the rights of the most marginalized group in America. Lulz

There are places to take the racist discussion, they are not here however if that's what you want to do.

I don’t recall needing your approval for my post. This thread is literally about a racist and bigot…

But I understand why some would try and defend…

Dude look in the mirror, you are casting aspersions on rich people if they are white.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

No need, those comments were about Gruden and he provided his own proof of his bigotry and racism. As for those of you that are pressed about the mans self inflicted position I offered reassurance that he will be OK…

 

[cymatica]

No need, those comments were about Gruden and he provided his own proof of his bigotry and racism. As for those of you that are pressed about the mans self inflicted position I offered reassurance that he will be OK…

At least be a man and stand by your words "Gruden will remain rich and white".

Whats the difference between rich and white and rich and black?

 

[Flyingsquad23]

No need, those comments were about Gruden and he provided his own proof of his bigotry and racism. As for those of you that are pressed about the mans self inflicted position I offered reassurance that he will be OK…

At least be a man and stand by your words "Gruden will remain rich and white".

Whats the difference between rich and white and rich and black?

If you’re going to be this obtuse I’m not sure I can give you an explanation you will accept.

“Gruden will remain rich and white” is a definitive statement about Gruden and has nothing to do with any other person.

If you think POC whether rich or not are treated or viewed equally in this country then I doubt any view I have will be meaningful to you.

I wouldn’t make excuses or defend these verified actions for anybody. Let alone get pressed and upset about the repercussions they faced.

Once again real plain….he will be alright, because rich and white in the USA is without any doubt a position of privilege.

 

[fenderbender123]

I don't blame an organization for parting ways with him. And Gruden definitely shouldn't have said those things. But I have to stop short of judging him as racist or sexist. Those concepts are much more complicated than crude language.

Also, I try to look at it from a more practical perspective. Did Gruden's emails hurt anyone? Hurt anyone's feelings? So far, no indication that was the case. However, whoever shared the emails is responsible for anyone who might be offended by them.

 

[cymatica]

No need, those comments were about Gruden and he provided his own proof of his bigotry and racism. As for those of you that are pressed about the mans self inflicted position I offered reassurance that he will be OK…

At least be a man and stand by your words "Gruden will remain rich and white".

Whats the difference between rich and white and rich and black?

If you’re going to be this obtuse I’m not sure I can give you an explanation you will accept.

“Gruden will remain rich and white” is a definitive statement about Gruden and has nothing to do with any other person.

If you think POC whether rich or not are treated or viewed equally in this country then I doubt any view I have will be meaningful to you.

I wouldn’t make excuses or defend these verified actions for anybody. Let alone get pressed and upset about the repercussions they faced.

Once again real plain….he will be alright, because rich and white in the USA is without any doubt a position of privilege.

Your victim mentally is not healthy. I feel sorry for you

 

[hgwellz12]

I also wonder how many people, who are so offended, have referred to Gruden as Chucky

Stop.

No, it's a valid point. You can make fun at one persons looks but not someone else's strictly because they have different pigmentation in their skin. It's the definition of hypocrisy

Yup, this is correct. But you're on a website where a lot of posters spill their soy over their keyboards over the smallest offense, so it's normal.

You're both full of shit, but it's absolutely your right to be full of shit so I ain't about to sit here going back and forth with you. Besides, nothing either one of us has to say here is gonna get Chucky his job back. Enjoy your sloppy joe sandwich. :2thumbs:

 

[MyrtleHawk]

I also wonder how many people, who are so offended, have referred to Gruden as Chucky

Stop.

No, it's a valid point. You can make fun at one persons looks but not someone else's strictly because they have different pigmentation in their skin. It's the definition of hypocrisy

Correction: You're only allowed to make fun of someone's looks and acts if they're the same race as you are. If you are a different race from said person, it's racist and wrong.

 

[HawkOG70’]

LMAO so what he made fun of Demaurice Smith's lips and called Goodell the f word lol
News flash....Smith does have thicker lips then normal folks get over it
moving on

 

[LTH]

Read the last sentence. Ethics are ethics. I'm not talking about whether a server is private or whether or not somebody has the legal right to share an email. I am talking about being ethical which has nothing to do with the law.

For example, let's say my girlfriend writes me a letter and mails it to me. I have the right to open that letter, take a picture of it, and post it on Reddit. But would I do that? Hell no. Even if it was the most offensive letter in the world, me posting it online to try and embarrass and ruin her life would be an absolutely piece of $h!t move by me. I'm not a piece of $h!t, so I wouldn't do it. I was taught better than that.

OK, fair enough. The person that leaked the email was unethical. So were the reporters that broke the Watergate story. It's standard operating procedure in the news business. They're all a bunch of sleaze balls.

Besides, it has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make: That emails sent to or received on a company domain are the property of that company. It doesn't matter if they were written under the assumption that they would only be read by the recipient.

I don't agree with what Gruden said in his emails... That being said, why is it he doesn't have the right to his opinion?


I think this is setting a dangerous precedent.. the emails were not meant for public disclosure whether or not the emails were on public domain or not... Grudens emails were from his private email so he might have thought they were private... Maybe there is a whole story behind Grudens comments that were not discussed in the email. We don't know its one piece...

the bigger picture here is why can't people think what they want to think? Its appropriate to educate people into understanding why different ideologies might be destructive but is it appropriate to control what people think through a societal opinion of what's appropriate?

Since when are people not allowed to speak what they feel is true no matter if society thinks it right or not?

Look what happened to Collin Kaepernick? So its not ok to take a knee in protest over racism because if you do that you are black listed in the NFL but If you write an email years ago that is considered racism you get canned for that too? (yeah he didn't persay get canned but thats why he quit because that's where it would have gone after the media drug Gruden through the mud) Who are we catering to? It's not like the NFL is apologizing to CK .. nobody will touch this guy with a 50 ft pole...

The whole thing IMO is not very well thought out.. it's really reactionary in nature.. I think what's happening is bring up questions on the definition of "free speech" regardless if the NFL is a private company or not its still bring the question... What kind of free speech is appropriate to our society and when?


LTH

 

[Flyingsquad23]

You are 100% free to say anything you want others to hear. If you have enough conviction in your thoughts to make them known to everyone then have the same conviction in owning those words and the consequences that may come with them.

 

[LTH]

You are 100% free to say anything you want others to hear. If you have enough conviction in your thoughts to make them known to everyone then have the same conviction in owning those words and the consequences that may come with them.

Is that what Gruden did? and I'm not standing up for what he said. Gruden did not make his comments public. Those words were not meant for public...

So your saying I'm wrong, that it doesn't raise a question as to what kind of free speech is appropriate to our society and when?

LTH

 

[LTH]

What kind of consequences are appropriate? Is it appropriate to get publicly ridiculed? Is it appropriate to lose your job ? is it appropriate to get beat up? is it appropriate to get dragged out to the tallest tree and hung?

Edit: Should consequences be based upon public perception?

LTH

 

[Flyingsquad23]

You are 100% free to say anything you want others to hear. If you have enough conviction in your thoughts to make them known to everyone then have the same conviction in owning those words and the consequences that may come with them.

Is that what Gruden did? and I'm not standing up for what he said. Gruden did not make his comments public. Those words were not meant for public...

So your saying I'm wrong, that it doesn't raise a question as to what kind of free speech is appropriate to our society and when?

LTH

I don’t make the rules or speak for all of our society. Are you not aware that email and or Internet communication is not nor ever been private?
In our society this type of guilt isn’t determined by who outed the offender or if that outing was ethical. It’s determined by an individuals actions or words. The court of public opinion vs. court of law…

And I didn’t make any claim as to you being wrong or right. That post was a direct answer to a question you asked.
Society can be quite fickle, acceptable dialogue has changed many times. So I would say that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

 

[cymatica]

Stop.

No, it's a valid point. You can make fun at one persons looks but not someone else's strictly because they have different pigmentation in their skin. It's the definition of hypocrisy

Yup, this is correct. But you're on a website where a lot of posters spill their soy over their keyboards over the smallest offense, so it's normal.

You're both full of $h!t, but it's absolutely your right to be full of $h!t so I ain't about to sit here going back and forth with you. Besides, nothing either one of us has to say here is gonna get Chucky his job back. Enjoy your sloppy joe sandwich. :2thumbs:

Of course you don't want to actually use facts and logic, or even make an actual point. Just tell someone they are full of it and run away covering your ears. Pathetic

 

[cymatica]

You are 100% free to say anything you want others to hear. If you have enough conviction in your thoughts to make them known to everyone then have the same conviction in owning those words and the consequences that may come with them.

Put your money where your mouth is and post your text history so we can make sure you haven't offended anyone

 

[Flyingsquad23]

What kind of consequences are appropriate? Is it appropriate to get publicly ridiculed? Is it appropriate to lose your job ? is it appropriate to get beat up? is it appropriate to get dragged out to the tallest tree and hung?

Edit: Should consequences be based upon public perception?

LTH

Just as every individual has the right to say whatever they want the same goes to how they judge another person. This isn’t a court of law situation. You can see examples in this thread. Some ridicule those that are offended, some think he should keep his job, others don’t care what happens to Gruden and feel he is reaping what he sowed. The only judgment that matters really is that of the owner that ultimately forced him out.

We are the “Society” and we are all judged by the public with the only defense being the persona we display to the public.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

You are 100% free to say anything you want others to hear. If you have enough conviction in your thoughts to make them known to everyone then have the same conviction in owning those words and the consequences that may come with them.

Put your money where your mouth is and post your text history so we can make sure you haven't offended anyone

Nothing I have posted would suggest that I think that I’m immune to the consequences of my words. To that fact I have never claimed to have never said anything offensive in my life. And to be honest I have had to be accountable for things I’ve said. Have you…

 

[LTH]

You are 100% free to say anything you want others to hear. If you have enough conviction in your thoughts to make them known to everyone then have the same conviction in owning those words and the consequences that may come with them.

Is that what Gruden did? and I'm not standing up for what he said. Gruden did not make his comments public. Those words were not meant for public...

So your saying I'm wrong, that it doesn't raise a question as to what kind of free speech is appropriate to our society and when?

LTH

I don’t make the rules or speak for all of our society. Are you not aware that email and or Internet communication is not nor ever been private?
In our society this type of guilt isn’t determined by who outed the offender or if that outing was ethical. It’s determined by an individuals actions or words. The court of public opinion vs. court of law…

And I didn’t make any claim as to you being wrong or right. That post was a direct answer to a question you asked.
Society can be quite fickle, acceptable dialogue has changed many times. So I would say that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

I think you bring up a good point whether I knew if Email was private. I guess I assumed that it is supposed to be private being all the privacy settings and security on email... But then again when I searched for a lawn mower seat on google then went to my email and there is lawn mower seat ads on my email... ok... :34853_doh:

That clearly makes every person who has email venerable potentially to what Gruden is going through even though Gruden wasn't hacked there are a lot of gray area's in that subject.

You are right in the assertion that it is the responsibility of the individual to understand what the current climate is and understand that what they say may come with consequences.

I'm SURE that Gruden did not know his email wasn't private...

I think we are entering a time when the question of what free speech is, being redefined from what most think it is as to what it is becoming and IMO there are being some dangerous precedents being set especially in social media...


LTH