LEO versus 5 -Tech

[AgentDib]

Is there anyone on here that doesn't want Hawks to add Clowney? Does anyone think adding Clowney would interfere with Green, Collier, or others from developing?

We'd definitely be better with Clowney, as he is simply a much better player right now than any of those four. But yes, if you want to look at the silver lining then playing youth has a few advantages. They develop faster, the team gets better information about their long-term upside, and they are much cheaper.

I think it's fine to call the Seahawks 1-tech a nose tackle provided they have two gap responsibility (which they do). Gap responsibility is a more important part from a personnel viewpoint than just whether they line up in 0 tech or not. For example, Red Bryant played 5Tech for us ("DE") but with two gap responsibility and so he was pretty much a DT that was just playing over to the side a bit.

 

[toffee]

Is Poona size ideal as nose?

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[springscohawk]

Jville thank you so much for posting articles about over and under defensive formations, very interesting stuff.

What is most clear for 4-3 defenses is that Leo goes to open side without TE and 5 Tech goes to TE side. It is dictated by the offense formation, which DE is on right or left. It sounds like in the old Red Bryant over formation, he was over the TE not just on TE side.

So in the under formation the 5 Tech DE is basically over tackle because SAM LB is over TE. Whereas in the over formation the 5 Tech DE is over TE and SAM linebacker is behind the line.

So the NT and 3 Tech DT and how they are positioned next to each other, and which one is on the left or right side of the line varies and is determined by over or under and how the offense is lined up. So with the 4-3 over the 3 Tech is beside 5 Tech but when in 4-3 under the 3 Tech DT is beside Leo. So whether the NT or 3 Tech are on the left or right side of line is impacted by which sides the LEO and 5 tech are on.

 

[springscohawk]

Is there anyone on here that doesn't want Hawks to add Clowney? Does anyone think adding Clowney would interfere with Green, Collier, or others from developing?

We'd definitely be better with Clowney, as he is simply a much better player right now than any of those four. But yes, if you want to look at the silver lining then playing youth has a few advantages. They develop faster, the team gets better information about their long-term upside, and they are much cheaper.

I think it's fine to call the Seahawks 1-tech a nose tackle provided they have two gap responsibility (which they do). Gap responsibility is a more important part from a personnel viewpoint than just whether they line up in 0 tech or not. For example, Red Bryant played 5Tech for us ("DE") but with two gap responsibility and so he was pretty much a DT that was just playing over to the side a bit.

In the images above, it looks like the 3 Tech only had one gap responsibilities in both over and under fronts. So the Leo and 3 Tech only had one gap responsibilities while NT and 5 Tech had two gap.

 

[JayhawkMike]

Grade A thread. I love the things I learn here plus extra credit for no seahawk fan on seahawk fan violence in the thread.

 

[AgentDib]

In the images above, it looks like the 3 Tech only had one gap responsibilities in both over and under fronts. So the Leo and 3 Tech only had one gap responsibilities while NT and 5 Tech had two gap.

Indeed, which is the thought behind playing Collier at 5T normally, but then also giving him some opportunities at 3T on passing downs. "Anchor" is an important attribute for two gap linemen which is all about leverage; a combination of having long arms, low center of gravity, heavy weight and strength in every area.

Here's what some draftniks thought about LJ Collier when he was coming out of TCU:
(Crabbs) He anchors well at the LOS, showing a lot of growth here throughout season.... He's got a pretty exceptional tackle radius on account of his length.
(Ledyard) Lacks the flexibility to turn the corner through contact....With his size and lack of edge rushing traits, a transition to the inside as a nickel rusher seems likely.... Ultra-physical and competitive. Backs down from no one and plays hard every snap... Collier is a hard-nosed end who played some anchor, stood up as a force defender
(Marino) Plays with good leverage and extension but I would not consider him overly stout at the point of attack, especially for what is expected from him stylistically given his overall profile.... Has decent length and heavy hands that allow him to work into the frame of blockers.
(Miller) Collier offers an intriguing option for teams looking to run a base 4-3 defense given his experience and production at strong-side end, but his pro production is more likely to come from an inside rushing position.
(Smith) While he primarily played defensive end for the Horned Frogs, Collier also reduced inside as a 3-tech defensive tackle occasionally and could offer similar versatility at the next level due to his stout build.... Any team thinking about drafting Collier will also have to take note on his lack of overall experience.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

Who is LEO and why is he fighting this 5 - Tech guy?

 

[springscohawk]

Is Poona size ideal as nose?

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I am no expert, reason why I started thread to learn more about defensive line.

My attempt to answer your question about Poona. Please others more knowledgeable chime in: Poona is not ideal size for nose because he is only 5'11. Yet he does have ability to anchor and occupy blockers due to being low to ground (over 300 pounds) and he can win leverage battles.

In my opinion, as a NT, he has some qualities similar to Brandon Mebane who mostly played nose tackle but had some pass rush ability and 3 tech shoot gaps-qualities, being quite quick as a younger player.

I remember one year they moved Mebane to 3-Tech DT hoping with his quickness he could show up in the sack stats and create some internal pressure. He didn't produce as many sack or pressures as I anticipated he would, thought, and next year he was moved him back to nose.

I think Poona is like that. He is a smaller nose tackle with ability to shoot gaps like a 3 Tech. It might show up more in stopping runs behind the line of scrimmage than getting sacks.

So in summary, Poona is more nose tackle than 3-Tech but not ideal sized NT due to being a little small. He is unique as a NT in not just occupying blockers but shooting gaps and getting run stops from behind line of scrimmage. Will he ever produce many sacks or pass rush pressures? Most likely he will be taken out on obvious pass rush downs for players like Green and Collier.

 

[springscohawk]

In the images above, it looks like the 3 Tech only had one gap responsibilities in both over and under fronts. So the Leo and 3 Tech only had one gap responsibilities while NT and 5 Tech had two gap.

Indeed, which is the thought behind playing Collier at 5T normally, but then also giving him some opportunities at 3T on passing downs. "Anchor" is an important attribute for two gap linemen which is all about leverage; a combination of having long arms, low center of gravity, heavy weight and strength in every area.

Here's what some draftniks thought about LJ Collier when he was coming out of TCU:
(Crabbs) He anchors well at the LOS, showing a lot of growth here throughout season.... He's got a pretty exceptional tackle radius on account of his length.
(Ledyard) Lacks the flexibility to turn the corner through contact....With his size and lack of edge rushing traits, a transition to the inside as a nickel rusher seems likely.... Ultra-physical and competitive. Backs down from no one and plays hard every snap... Collier is a hard-nosed end who played some anchor, stood up as a force defender
(Marino) Plays with good leverage and extension but I would not consider him overly stout at the point of attack, especially for what is expected from him stylistically given his overall profile.... Has decent length and heavy hands that allow him to work into the frame of blockers.
(Miller) Collier offers an intriguing option for teams looking to run a base 4-3 defense given his experience and production at strong-side end, but his pro production is more likely to come from an inside rushing position.
(Smith) While he primarily played defensive end for the Horned Frogs, Collier also reduced inside as a 3-tech defensive tackle occasionally and could offer similar versatility at the next level due to his stout build.... Any team thinking about drafting Collier will also have to take note on his lack of overall experience.

Thanks for scouting report on Collier. Maybe they should just move him to 3 Tech permanently instead 5 Tech and slide into 3 tech on passing downs.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

What I learned from this thread is that the defensive player positions align themselves to the offense's strong or weak side, as a higher evolution of football. Now it' a misnomer now to call anything on the defense left or right. I wish Madden would get their shit together and get the positon names right--the linebackers too, because I made the playoffs with the shittiest team in the league and won a playoff game!

 

[springscohawk]

What I learned from this thread is that the defensive player positions align themselves to the offense's strong or weak side, as a higher evolution of football. Now it' a misnomer now to call anything on the defense left or right. I wish Madden would get their $h!t together and get the positon names right--the linebackers too, because I made the playoffs with the $h!t team in the league and won a playoff game!

Way to make things simple and boil everything down to the bottom line.


My son is still playing Madden on old Wii system, the last year Madden was made for Wii when Russell Wilson was a rookie (2012)and Matt Flynn was projected QB. He vowed the other day he would never play it again due to unrealistic nature of playoff matchup and outcome with Dallas Cowboys in playoff match.

I think my son would enjoy Madden more if he had more updated version. Any suggestions on gaming system and recent Madden year to purchase? Any suggestions as Wii is only system we have now due to games being more "family friendly."