New National Anthem Policy

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Stating my opinion about this situation on a discussion board is shoving my take down someone's throat?

Well your opinion is garbage.

Fact: NFL made a ruling, players will abide or be punished.
Fact: POTUS has the right to control who comes into his home.
Fact: If I volunteer to wear my uniform and present our nations Colors at your game, you're disrespecting me.
Fact: If you disrespect me, you suck.

The end.

 

[sutz]

Stating my opinion about this situation on a discussion board is shoving my take down someone's throat?

Well your opinion is garbage.

Fact: NFL made a ruling, players will abide or be punished.
Fact: POTUS has the right to control who comes into his home.
Fact: If I volunteer to wear my uniform and present our nations Colors at your game, you're disrespecting me.
Fact: If you disrespect me, you suck.

The end.

:laugh:

 

[Mindsink]

There's a large portion of this country that just wants to complain about the protests themselves, they conflate patriotism with nationalism and refuse to believe that doing anything other than standing at attention with hand over heart is disrespectful to our service men and women, etc.

I hope all players stay in the locker rooms from here on out.

Because it IS (disrespectful).

Standing for the national anthem represents showing respect for our country and our military. So an act of defiance during the anthem shows disrespect. It's that simple. It's common sense. It's why so many are upset, and why so many have outright tuned away from the NFL.

 

[sutz]

There's a large portion of this country that just wants to complain about the protests themselves, they conflate patriotism with nationalism and refuse to believe that doing anything other than standing at attention with hand over heart is disrespectful to our service men and women, etc.

I hope all players stay in the locker rooms from here on out.

Because it IS (disrespectful).

Standing for the national anthem represents showing respect for our country and our military. So an act of defiance during the anthem shows disrespect. It's that simple. It's common sense. It's why so many are upset, and why so many have outright tuned away from the NFL.

In your opinion. Actually kneeling is a sign of respect, too.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

There's a large portion of this country that just wants to complain about the protests themselves, they conflate patriotism with nationalism and refuse to believe that doing anything other than standing at attention with hand over heart is disrespectful to our service men and women, etc.

I hope all players stay in the locker rooms from here on out.

Because it IS (disrespectful).

Standing for the national anthem represents showing respect for our country and our military. So an act of defiance during the anthem shows disrespect. It's that simple. It's common sense. It's why so many are upset, and why so many have outright tuned away from the NFL.

In your opinion. Actually kneeling is a sign of respect, too.

Sutz... as a Marine. What's your opinion on the policy?

 

[seahawkfreak]

There's a large portion of this country that just wants to complain about the protests themselves, they conflate patriotism with nationalism and refuse to believe that doing anything other than standing at attention with hand over heart is disrespectful to our service men and women, etc.

I hope all players stay in the locker rooms from here on out.

Because it IS (disrespectful).

Standing for the national anthem represents showing respect for our country and our military. So an act of defiance during the anthem shows disrespect. It's that simple. It's common sense. It's why so many are upset, and why so many have outright tuned away from the NFL.

In your opinion. Actually kneeling is a sign of respect, too.

Sutz... as a Marine. What's your opinion on the policy?

Not to take away from Sox but yes, Sutz, please expand.

 

[seahawkfreak]

Guess the Prez said beat it to the Eagles today regarding their visit...

Would be curious to see all the Eagles complaining about the cancellation asked if they were actually planning on going.

WH claims Eagles tried to rope-a-dope them by requesting 80 passes and then dropping it to single digits the day before. So more or less a no show designed to embarrass.

I'm increasingly saddened by everything being a political game.

I didn't see a single Eagles player, nor anyone related to the organization complain about this situation.

All WH visits require security clearance. You submit a roster of names for them to check. The WH can claim whatever they want, but they have zero credibility these days, and then they went on to further look like idiots by releasing petty statements and turning the event, LITERALLY, into "a celebration of the American flag with Eagles fans." What a joke.

Then the NFL and the commissioner just bend over and take it yesterday. Hilarious.

This is nothing more than an extension of this culture war that is being shoved down Americans' throats. No one talks about the issues at hand, no one talks about what the flag symbolizes, no one talks about the countless hours and dollars that these athletes pour into their communities and charities. There's a large portion of this country that just wants to complain about the protests themselves, they conflate patriotism with nationalism and refuse to believe that doing anything other than standing at attention with hand over heart is disrespectful to our service men and women, etc.

I hope all players stay in the locker rooms from here on out.

Right so a couple days before the WH is ready to celebrate the Eagles and then they say only 2 to 10 players are going to show up. As a President you are damn right I would say screw off. This was a stunt to try to make the president look bad. " Hey look, even the SB champs hate the President, only 3 people showed up." You are goddam right the Eagles should have gotten their invitation revoked.

You do not to get to provoke someone and when that person responds to your attack,,,,,,,,,then you claim victim hood, piss off you recluse.

I respect Chis Long as a football player, however he has not done anything beyond that to prove he knows political issues. That means it is all about feelings. Remember this guy was raised in a wealthy environment and really has no idea how a "rough life is". This is a typical media star flashing his bullshit and disappointing opinions.

The Eagles players are not qualified to make political statements. Most people are not.

Cause politics do not equal facts.

 

[sutz]

I don't really have an opinion on the policy. I do think the league should have included the Players Union in the formation of it. Just dictating it won't engender enthusiastic support. That's true in any situation. Apparently, the owners talked to Trump, but not to the players. Stoopid, IMNSHO. Beyond that, I have no problem with the players staying in the locker room. The coaches would probably enjoy the extra time to work on last minute game planning.

I was always supportive of the players' right to kneel if they felt motivated to do so. Of course, I also support why they knelt and was pretty disgusted with how politicians and the media distorted the narrative. I always thought that was why I served, to allow free speech. That won't change.

Trying to enforce it as a "workplace" issue doesn't fly really well in such a singular industry. It's not like a guy running a register at McD's. The players can't just quit and go elsewhere. OTOH, the owners own the team, not the players. The sport in general has many authoritarian aspects, by necessity, and the players live with that on the field. Telling them to shut up and stand in line on things other than football must rankle with them. The modern player is far from the old stereotype of the dumb jock.

Frankly, I get a bit tired of all the jingoism wrapped around issues like this. Funny, I don't think people who are irritated by this are un-patriotic. Obviously some folks feel differently and like to criticize. Suppressing protest because it makes some people uncomfortable is something more suited to more authoritarian societies.

 

[Mindsink]

There's a large portion of this country that just wants to complain about the protests themselves, they conflate patriotism with nationalism and refuse to believe that doing anything other than standing at attention with hand over heart is disrespectful to our service men and women, etc.

I hope all players stay in the locker rooms from here on out.

Because it IS (disrespectful).

Standing for the national anthem represents showing respect for our country and our military. So an act of defiance during the anthem shows disrespect. It's that simple. It's common sense. It's why so many are upset, and why so many have outright tuned away from the NFL.

In your opinion. Actually kneeling is a sign of respect, too.

It's not opinion. It's fact. Anyone with common sense can see that.

Because kneeling can be a sign of respect in a different context, are you implying that it was a sign of respect when players kneel during the anthem? Surely you can't be serious.

 

[Mindsink]

I don't really have an opinion on the policy. I do think the league should have included the Players Union in the formation of it. Just dictating it won't engender enthusiastic support. That's true in any situation. Apparently, the owners talked to Trump, but not to the players. Stoopid, IMNSHO. Beyond that, I have no problem with the players staying in the locker room. The coaches would probably enjoy the extra time to work on last minute game planning.

I was always supportive of the players' right to kneel if they felt motivated to do so. Of course, I also support why they knelt and was pretty disgusted with how politicians and the media distorted the narrative. I always thought that was why I served, to allow free speech. That won't change.

Trying to enforce it as a "workplace" issue doesn't fly really well in such a singular industry. It's not like a guy running a register at McD's. The players can't just quit and go elsewhere. OTOH, the owners own the team, not the players. The sport in general has many authoritarian aspects, by necessity, and the players live with that on the field. Telling them to shut up and stand in line on things other than football must rankle with them. The modern player is far from the old stereotype of the dumb jock.

Frankly, I get a bit tired of all the jingoism wrapped around issues like this. Funny, I don't think people who are irritated by this are un-patriotic. Obviously some folks feel differently and like to criticize. Suppressing protest because it makes some people uncomfortable is something more suited to more authoritarian societies.

Looks like you have quite an opinion on the policy.

Btw, this has nothing to do with free speech. Saying so indicates to me that your opinions are very misguided.

 

[sutz]

It's not opinion. It's fact. Anyone with common sense can see that.

Opinions vary. :229031_shrug:

Actually the story goes that Kaep consulted with a vet, who advised him that sitting would be the sign of disrespect, and kneeling would be more acceptable. That vet agrees with me, at least.

I realize this is the internet world, but shouting that something is a "fact" does not make it so. If it was a "fact," it wouldn't be so controversial, except to those who wish to define reality for others. Frankly, I try to avoid doing that.

And, of course, since you don't allow me the courtesy of possessing common sense, you obviously won't listen to me.

:229031_shrug:

 

[Mindsink]

It's not opinion. It's fact. Anyone with common sense can see that.

Opinions vary. :229031_shrug:

Actually the story goes that Kaep consulted with a vet, who advised him that sitting would be the sign of disrespect, and kneeling would be more acceptable. That vet agrees with me, at least.

I realize this is the internet world, but shouting that something is a "fact" does not make it so. If it was a "fact," it wouldn't be so controversial, except to those who wish to define reality for others. Frankly, I try to avoid doing that.

And, of course, since you don't allow me the courtesy of possessing common sense, you obviously won't listen to me.

:229031_shrug:

Kaep's statement on the issue was:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,"

How one can spin that ^ to to say Kaep is respecting the anthem or flag is beyond me.

Disrespect only exists when people feel the disrespect. Many people feel it is disrespectful, therefore it is. That's why it's fact -- not because I declare so.

 

[Osprey]

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”

CK's original words, can't get any clearer than that. How can he be showing respect for something he has no pride in?

If the response is 'ya but the other players didn't say that' then hopefully you can realize why many see the 'message' as being unclear / diluted.

In my mind I have no doubt Kaepernick's original protest was meant to be disrespectful and shocking in order to bring attention to his cause. Subsequent players I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt and allow for the fact they got caught up following the edgy trend as happens in all walks of life.

 

[Mindsink]

With regard to the NFL's new policy, I don't like how they are targeting players with the fines. They should be targeting teams.

That will then put the responsibility and pressure of the team's owners to institute the proper measures to ensure players adhere to the policy.

One owner already came out and basically said that his players will be free to protest on the field and that he'll simply pay the fines.

 

[sutz]

It's not opinion. It's fact. Anyone with common sense can see that.

Opinions vary. :229031_shrug:

Actually the story goes that Kaep consulted with a vet, who advised him that sitting would be the sign of disrespect, and kneeling would be more acceptable. That vet agrees with me, at least.

I realize this is the internet world, but shouting that something is a "fact" does not make it so. If it was a "fact," it wouldn't be so controversial, except to those who wish to define reality for others. Frankly, I try to avoid doing that.

And, of course, since you don't allow me the courtesy of possessing common sense, you obviously won't listen to me.

:229031_shrug:

Kaep's statement on the issue was:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,"

How one can spin that ^ to to say Kaep is respecting the anthem or flag is beyond me.

Disrespect only exists when people feel the disrespect. Many people feel it is disrespectful, therefore it is. That's why it's fact -- not because I declare so.

Again, "many people feel" is not proof of fact. It is still just group opinion.

 

[Mindsink]

It's not opinion. It's fact. Anyone with common sense can see that.

Opinions vary. :229031_shrug:

Actually the story goes that Kaep consulted with a vet, who advised him that sitting would be the sign of disrespect, and kneeling would be more acceptable. That vet agrees with me, at least.

I realize this is the internet world, but shouting that something is a "fact" does not make it so. If it was a "fact," it wouldn't be so controversial, except to those who wish to define reality for others. Frankly, I try to avoid doing that.

And, of course, since you don't allow me the courtesy of possessing common sense, you obviously won't listen to me.

:229031_shrug:

Kaep's statement on the issue was:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,"

How one can spin that ^ to to say Kaep is respecting the anthem or flag is beyond me.

Disrespect only exists when people feel the disrespect. Many people feel it is disrespectful, therefore it is. That's why it's fact -- not because I declare so.

Again, "many people feel" is not proof of fact. It is still just group opinion.

I think there's a major disconnect here.

"Many people feel" is only proof that the disrespect is present. It's real. This is fact.

You telling me that "Hey, you shouldn't feel this way. I don't feel this way" does not negate the fact that the disrespect exists.

I shouldn't need to break it down into these little concepts for you to understand. Like I said, it's common sense. Look at Kaep's actions and couple that with his statements. It's disrespectful. You want to get into childish games of semantics? Fine. Most of us adults will just use common sense.

 

[Anguish]

Opinions vary. :229031_shrug:

Actually the story goes that Kaep consulted with a vet, who advised him that sitting would be the sign of disrespect, and kneeling would be more acceptable. That vet agrees with me, at least.

I realize this is the internet world, but shouting that something is a "fact" does not make it so. If it was a "fact," it wouldn't be so controversial, except to those who wish to define reality for others. Frankly, I try to avoid doing that.

And, of course, since you don't allow me the courtesy of possessing common sense, you obviously won't listen to me.

:229031_shrug:

Kaep's statement on the issue was:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,"

How one can spin that ^ to to say Kaep is respecting the anthem or flag is beyond me.

Disrespect only exists when people feel the disrespect. Many people feel it is disrespectful, therefore it is. That's why it's fact -- not because I declare so.

Again, "many people feel" is not proof of fact. It is still just group opinion.

I think there's a major disconnect here.

"Many people feel" is only proof that the disrespect is present. It's real. This is fact.

You telling me that "Hey, you shouldn't feel this way. I don't feel this way" does not negate the fact that the disrespect exists.

I shouldn't need to break it down into these little concepts for you to understand. Like I said, it's common sense. Look at Kaep's actions and couple that with his statements. It's disrespectful. You want to get into childish games of semantics? Fine. Most of us adults will just use common sense.

Shit like this is exactly why the original shack was closed.

Want to declare yourself the adult in the room? Act like it. There is no need for you to declare the comments of others “childish games of semantics”. State your opinion and move on without the condescension.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Kaep's statement on the issue was:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,"

How one can spin that ^ to to say Kaep is respecting the anthem or flag is beyond me.

Disrespect only exists when people feel the disrespect. Many people feel it is disrespectful, therefore it is. That's why it's fact -- not because I declare so.

Again, "many people feel" is not proof of fact. It is still just group opinion.

I think there's a major disconnect here.

"Many people feel" is only proof that the disrespect is present. It's real. This is fact.

You telling me that "Hey, you shouldn't feel this way. I don't feel this way" does not negate the fact that the disrespect exists.

I shouldn't need to break it down into these little concepts for you to understand. Like I said, it's common sense. Look at Kaep's actions and couple that with his statements. It's disrespectful. You want to get into childish games of semantics? Fine. Most of us adults will just use common sense.

Shit like this is exactly why the original shack was closed.

Want to declare yourself the adult in the room? Act like it. There is no need for you to declare the comments of others “childish games of semantics”. State your opinion and move on without the condescension.

To be fair, this topic was started by a Mod...... and I think we all knew the direction it would take.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

M Lynch has stood and raised a fist at the end. I think this is an appropriate compromise.