Rams at Vikings, w/ Preview from CBS Sports

[Uncle Si]

I think this is a fair post....

I'd chalk Joyners hit up to recklessness more than anything...except to Rex. For him I believe Joyners hit is a direct reflection of Rex. He should be ashamed...

Explain. I said the hit was unfortunate and unintentional.

I have, numerous times. It wasn't unintentional. He meant to hit the QB. I agree with the more balanced and honest Ram fans who seem to have a better grasp of what can be clearly seen. Joyner was reckless. He should be fined. Really, he should have been ejected. I don't think he was trying to knock Teddy unconscious however. He just wasn't in control enough to stop himself from doing it.

 

[Rex]

I think this is a fair post....

I'd chalk Joyners hit up to recklessness more than anything...except to Rex. For him I believe Joyners hit is a direct reflection of Rex. He should be ashamed...

Explain. I said the hit was unfortunate and unintentional.

I have, numerous times. It wasn't unintentional. He meant to hit the QB. I agree with the more balanced and honest Ram fans who seem to have a better grasp of what can be clearly seen. Joyner was reckless. He should be fined. Really, he should have been ejected. I don't think he was trying to knock Teddy unconscious however. He just wasn't in control enough to stop himself from doing it.

The hit was unintentional hence no ejection.

 

[RichNhansom]

The elbow was absolutely intentional. Trying to argue it wasn't is just dishonest.

 

[Rex]

The elbow was absolutely intentional. Trying to argue it wasn't is just dishonest.

Joyner was bracing himself for impact with the ground. The hit was unintentional.

 

[dcbshowstopper]

4 - 4 now with the schedule getting tough. Welcome back to earth.

Actually, the toughest part of the schedule is over. They have the Bears, Ravens, Lions, Bucs, and 49ers again. The toughest games are Cincy, AZ (at home), and Seattle.

Btw, stupid hit by Joyner, and he should be fined. He grew up in FL with Bridgewater and their parents are friends with one another, so I believe him when he says he didn't try to hurt him and would take it back if he could.

As far as Rodney Harrison goes, he can kill all of the dirty talk because he's the dirtiest player to have played in the league, imo. Nobody but Rams fans know better than Rams fans since he knocked our starting QB (Trent Green) out when he went for his knees in a freakin preseason game. It worked out for the best, but everyone was sick that day.

 

[OkieHawk]

The elbow was absolutely intentional. Trying to argue it wasn't is just dishonest.

Joyner was bracing himself for impact with the ground. The hit was unintentional.

Spin Marvin, spin.

 

[Rex]

From Matt Bowen, ESPN Insider

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...i ... ate-20-nfl

excerpt:

"The truth is, if we didn't know what we do about Williams from Bountygate, we wouldn't be able to discern the intent of his defenses from any other team.


This is a fact: Quarterbacks are always targeted, regardless of who is running the defense that day. Take them out, within or on the edge of the rules, and your chances of winning increase dramatically.

Plays like this are easy to critique from the couch or even in the stands. You see a quarterback go down, especially when the head is involved, and the outrage floods social media. Everyone knows the ramifications of concussions, and everyone is an expert, just waiting to throw out opinions, to gain a voice on a hit that doesn't mesh with their standards of clean, ethical play.

When Bridgewater started to slide, everything went wrong. It was the imperfect combination of NFL speed and a QB in the open field. If you want to say Joyner was intentionally trying to bounce Bridgewater's head off the turf like a basketball, then go with it. I probably won't change your mind, and that's fine. But I just don't believe he was looking to make contact with the helmet of the quarterback. That wasn't his plan when he broke downhill and prepared himself to deliver the hit. The rest? Well, it happens when angles change at the last second.

Yes, it was a brutal hit. But put yourself in the shoes of Joyner, or any defender in the NFL that sees the quarterback tuck that ball to run. I've been there, and regardless of who your coach is, your mindset is clear: That's fresh meat in the open field. If you have a shot -- a legitimate shot -- then you drop your pads and put it on him. Make it physical, too. That's not meathead stuff here, it's just football the way you've been trained to play. And while slow motion tells you one thing, in the pros, it happens so fast, like lightning, that defenders just can't pull off in time to save a guy.

I've watched the hit from Joyner over and over. And I've been in those situations as a player. There was an opportunity there for Joyner -- leading with his shoulder -- to put Bridgewater down, to let him know that running the ball against his defense wasn't the best idea going forward. "Next time," Joyner is thinking, "just hang in the pocket and make the throw, or we will take you out." That's the message you are trying to send as a defensive player.

Nice? No, it's not. But that's the reality of the NFL."

 

[Uncle Si]

The elbow was absolutely intentional. Trying to argue it wasn't is just dishonest.

Joyner was bracing himself for impact with the ground. The hit was unintentional.

Spin Marvin, spin.

You almost feel bad for him... but then again..

 

[Laloosh]

Rex is trolling the hell out of this one. Staying between the lines though. I'm almost compelled to applaud it.

 

[Uncle Si]

Rex is trolling the hell out of this one. Staying between the lines though. I'm almost compelled to applaud it.

He's got staying power...

 

[DavidSeven]

Man, we've been calling this team dirty since Fisher took over. Has nothing to do with their DC's history. It's obvious to anyone who watches them play. They take their shots. Drive their elbows and knees into people. Can't count the number of times I've seen them use Wilson's helmet or neck as an elbow rest. They're coached to play like that, and that's why G Tate always made it a point to show them up whenever they played.

 

[rideaducati]

It WAS a dirty hit by Joyner, but I don't believe he had any intent to take Bridgewater out. Hurt him? Yes...as I think all NFL defenders intend to hurt someone. I think his mindset was, "he's killing us with these scrambles, so if I hit him hard he'll think twice before scrambling again".

It's frustrating that the narrative here is that Fisher/Williams are dirty/cheap shot coaches. Seahawks fans think this because the most undisciplined game we played happened to be against the Hawks.

The 3 QBs that got injured against us before Teddy this year and last year, were all clean hits. The hit against Teddy outside of the pocket was a clean hit - as was explained in the broadcast, you're allowed to go low on a QB when he's out of the pocket. Hayes was trying to hit him, and hitting him low wasn't illegal - ergo it's not "dirty".

Under Fisher's tenure, the Rams have played undisciplined football - but this season we have really turned that around. We're in the top 5 in personal foul/unsportsmanlike conduct penalties this season.

So IMO, drudging up the narrative about Fisher/Williams is just plain lazy.

It's football - the reality is that no matter who you play against, your QB is going to get hit. The QB runs the risk of getting injured anytime he crosses the LOS.

I admit it was dirty, because it was. That doesn't mean the Rams are dirty, or even that Joyner himself is a dirty player - we as people do stupid things without actually being stupid. He did something bad, and he will probably pay for it. I'd have no problem with the NFL suspending him. That will all be taken care of.

Now we should just move on. Contrary to popular belief, the Rams are not a dirty team. I have NO problem with a player on my team hitting a QB that's been killing us by running the ball, a little late. I wish he wouldn't have hit him in the head, but I don't think he can possibly have meant to do that. It sucks that Bridgewater went out, and I hope he recovers and can play next week.


But seeing this and filing it under "Fisher and Williams are dirty" is just lazy. We've come a long way and it's sad that after a bang/bang play with likely no ill intent, it's back to "the Rams are dirty".

It would be like a Seahawks player getting caught with PEDs and me saying "Seahawks cheat" - it's lazy, and it's not looking at each individual scenario.

The Rams are DIRTY and CHEAP SHOT ARTISTS. Watch the Rams players when getting up from the piles and you will notice a push to the throat or helmet or a knee to a back or thigh to help themselves up. I don't mind the hard hits during play, but I see the little things the Rams do as cheap and dirty. That isn't a lazy assumption because I have seen it with my own eyes more from the Rams than most other teams.

The niners of the past few years were doing that garbage a lot too. I'm seeing more coming from the packers and Broncos than usual too. That punk ass stuff is cheap and dirty and should be taken out of the game.

The Rams are really good at getting a head shot on every tackle they can when it is legal too. Most teams tackle the body, the Rams tackle by the head.

You're wrong. And I'm pretty sure I watch the Rams A LOT more than you do.

To make the comment that you "see it with your own eyes more from the Rams than most other teams" must mean you watch literally every play of every NFL game.....which we know isn't true. In fact, aside from highlights, I'd bet that there are some teams that you haven't seen play a single down. So you cannot accurately make the statement that the Rams do little stuff after a play than other teams when you can't possibly know that.

The Rams are not the same team that they were two years ago.

I actually do watch most games. My wife gets upset because every dvr in the house is full of NFL games. The teams within the division are full games and there are a few teams outside the division that like to watch and I record all the short cuts of the rest. I haven't watched a single Patriot game this year, but I have seen EVERY other team at least twice....except Kansas City..I could only watch them once and I think they are the worst team in the league...even worse than the niners.


If there was a good game where the favorite lost, I make sure to watch the coaches film of that game. After the short cuts, I also pick a game or two that was well played and watch the coaches film of those...so, I actually watch Most games eventually. And just so you know, I have seen every snap your sacrificial lambs have been on the field for the past 6 seasons...boy do I want credit for all that wasted time.

After all that, the Rams are still dirty, cheap shot artists and they do that stupid crap I pointed out that they do in my previous post and they do it more than "most" teams do. Maybe someday you'll have Sunday Ticket and Gamepass so you can watch other teams and compare them to your dirty, cheap shot artists.

 

[Rex]

Rex is trolling the hell out of this one. Staying between the lines though. I'm almost compelled to applaud it.

Not trolling at all. The hit was unintentional. Read the excerpt from the ESPN Insider I posted. If Joyner wanted to hurt Bridgewater he would have lead with his shoulder.....which he did not. Joyner is not a dirty player. The hit to the helmet was unfortunate and unintentional.

 

[Rex]

Rex is trolling the hell out of this one. Staying between the lines though. I'm almost compelled to applaud it.

He's got staying power...

The ladies agree. :0190l:

 

[rideaducati]

The secret to actually seeing the dirty crap that goes on a lot is to not watch the ball. It's difficult to do that watching the TV copy because they only follow the ball.

 

[Rex]

It WAS a dirty hit by Joyner, but I don't believe he had any intent to take Bridgewater out. Hurt him? Yes...as I think all NFL defenders intend to hurt someone. I think his mindset was, "he's killing us with these scrambles, so if I hit him hard he'll think twice before scrambling again".

It's frustrating that the narrative here is that Fisher/Williams are dirty/cheap shot coaches. Seahawks fans think this because the most undisciplined game we played happened to be against the Hawks.

The 3 QBs that got injured against us before Teddy this year and last year, were all clean hits. The hit against Teddy outside of the pocket was a clean hit - as was explained in the broadcast, you're allowed to go low on a QB when he's out of the pocket. Hayes was trying to hit him, and hitting him low wasn't illegal - ergo it's not "dirty".

Under Fisher's tenure, the Rams have played undisciplined football - but this season we have really turned that around. We're in the top 5 in personal foul/unsportsmanlike conduct penalties this season.

So IMO, drudging up the narrative about Fisher/Williams is just plain lazy.

It's football - the reality is that no matter who you play against, your QB is going to get hit. The QB runs the risk of getting injured anytime he crosses the LOS.

I admit it was dirty, because it was. That doesn't mean the Rams are dirty, or even that Joyner himself is a dirty player - we as people do stupid things without actually being stupid. He did something bad, and he will probably pay for it. I'd have no problem with the NFL suspending him. That will all be taken care of.

Now we should just move on. Contrary to popular belief, the Rams are not a dirty team. I have NO problem with a player on my team hitting a QB that's been killing us by running the ball, a little late. I wish he wouldn't have hit him in the head, but I don't think he can possibly have meant to do that. It sucks that Bridgewater went out, and I hope he recovers and can play next week.


But seeing this and filing it under "Fisher and Williams are dirty" is just lazy. We've come a long way and it's sad that after a bang/bang play with likely no ill intent, it's back to "the Rams are dirty".

It would be like a Seahawks player getting caught with PEDs and me saying "Seahawks cheat" - it's lazy, and it's not looking at each individual scenario.

The Rams are DIRTY and CHEAP SHOT ARTISTS. Watch the Rams players when getting up from the piles and you will notice a push to the throat or helmet or a knee to a back or thigh to help themselves up. I don't mind the hard hits during play, but I see the little things the Rams do as cheap and dirty. That isn't a lazy assumption because I have seen it with my own eyes more from the Rams than most other teams.

The niners of the past few years were doing that garbage a lot too. I'm seeing more coming from the packers and Broncos than usual too. That punk ass stuff is cheap and dirty and should be taken out of the game.

The Rams are really good at getting a head shot on every tackle they can when it is legal too. Most teams tackle the body, the Rams tackle by the head.

You're wrong. And I'm pretty sure I watch the Rams A LOT more than you do.

To make the comment that you "see it with your own eyes more from the Rams than most other teams" must mean you watch literally every play of every NFL game.....which we know isn't true. In fact, aside from highlights, I'd bet that there are some teams that you haven't seen play a single down. So you cannot accurately make the statement that the Rams do little stuff after a play than other teams when you can't possibly know that.

The Rams are not the same team that they were two years ago.

I actually do watch most games. My wife gets upset because every dvr in the house is full of NFL games. The teams within the division are full games and there are a few teams outside the division that like to watch and I record all the short cuts of the rest. I haven't watched a single Patriot game this year, but I have seen EVERY other team at least twice....except Kansas City..I could only watch them once and I think they are the worst team in the league...even worse than the niners.


If there was a good game where the favorite lost, I make sure to watch the coaches film of that game. After the short cuts, I also pick a game or two that was well played and watch the coaches film of those...so, I actually watch Most games eventually. And just so you know, I have seen every snap your sacrificial lambs have been on the field for the past 6 seasons...boy do I want credit for all that wasted time.

After all that, the Rams are still dirty, cheap shot artists and they do that stupid crap I pointed out that they do in my previous post and they do it more than "most" teams do. Maybe someday you'll have Sunday Ticket and Gamepass so you can watch other teams and compare them to your dirty, cheap shot artists.

Rams have improved especially over the last two seasons. If you watch them play then you know that is true. They will hit hard at every opportunity which is within the rules.

 

[Scottemojo]

I will be al LULZ when they fine his ass this week.

 

[rideaducati]

The Rams have not improved offensively. Especially at the QB position. That may change with their new toy at running back, but I still think Fisher will find a way to finish .500 again. :0190l:

 

[Scottemojo]

Gurley is fun to watch.

But end arounds to Austin are not. Every one of those is a touch taken from a very good back.

 

[Rex]

Gurley is fun to watch.

But end arounds to Austin are not. Every one of those is a touch taken from a very good back.

As long as those touches for Austin are productive its fine. Ideally this season Gurley gets 20 touches a game. Austin is critical to that strategy. Sure wish Austin could become a WR.