Soon to be the End of the Pete Carroll Era?

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semiahmoo

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Just my own personal observation - many are welcome to disagree.

This team was mentally traumatized by the Super Bowl XLIX loss via "The Play" and has never fully recovered from that controversial ending to a remarkable game and season.

Last year the team had flashes of brilliance, though nearly as many flashes of tepid mediocrity.

Lynch hangs it up, the Legion of Boom is a couple years older, increasingly hobbled, and not nearly so feared as they once were. And then there's the now-infamous O-Line of course - that mishmash of inexperience-and-a-prayer that has done little more than place further mental scarring upon a still young and (hopefully) developing Russel Wilson.

Yes, there's been injuries to the backfield, injuries to Wilson, (O-Line related?) etc., but injuries accompany every team during a season. The difference between those who hope they can overcome them and those who KNOW they can overcome them, is that intangible "thing" - difficult to define, but undeniably there...or not.

The Seahawks used to have "IT."

Last season I thought perhaps they had lost that intangible quality.

This season it has become undeniably clear they have.

The 2016-2017 Hawks are a sometimes good team, but have yet to be a great one, and almost as often, a terrible thing to behold. Previous versions of this team wouldn't allow themselves to descend into terrible. Now? They seem more and more willing to accept it with shrugs and "we'll do better" platitudes.

That kind of approach is a sickness to any athletic team, but even more so at the professional level. Call it greed, laziness, or perhaps just the accumulated aches and pains of being older and having endured multiple seasons in a sport that puts bodies and minds through hell for several weeks at a time.

Our offense overall is a pathetic, mangled mess to watch at times. There have been exceptions this year, but not nearly so many to lessen increasing concern. And regardless of what we are being told, this week did not showcase the same Russel Wilson of 2015. Leaving out the O-Line issues, he is slower to react, sometimes fearful/panicked, and missing targets far more often than when he was a younger and more inexperienced player.

Wilson had the benefit of entering the league behind a competent O-Line, and a literal BEAST of a running back who was hitting his prime. Now without the benefit of both, Russel Wilson's inherent weaknesses have been magnified. Teams work to eliminate his scrambling threat, and in doing so, reveal him to be a merely average NFL passer when facing consistent rush pressure.

The question is, will Wilson continue to improve, or has he already reached his peak and perhaps even begun his career-decline? As he continues to get older, and lose a half-step, will his physical/mental limitations prevent him another realistic shot at a Super Bowl?

And who is to blame for THAT? Who exposed Wilson to hit after hit after hit over the last two seasons? Who has allowed an offense to have play-calling that is at times so out of touch with this team's reality as to leave even the casual fan stunned at its sometimes stupidity?

Pete Carroll.

Caroll can no longer merely smile and nod and shucks yeah, man, it's not how you start it's how you finish, man, his way out of this one. Big props to the oldest coach in the league. He took us to the Big Show and brought home the hardware. That was three years ago, and if you're only as good as your last big win, well...

Seattle fans want to at least believe we have a shot. We demand a team that is competitive and too often this season, we've been anything but. Yes, perhaps that's an odd thing to say for a team that is 8-4-1 and atop the NFC West, but its how bad those losses were, and how bad Russel Wilson has repeatedly revealed himself capable of being, that has left more than a few fans now wondering if perhaps the end of the Carroll era is upon us.

Perhaps this team will astonish once more. Perhaps in a few weeks I'll be happily eating crow.

Perhaps.
 

Ozzy

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You will be. They are 8-4-1 and had their first blowout in 5 years. Every other team in the league has been blown out multiple times. I think you're overreacting. But maybe I'm wrong.
 

Hawkfiend

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Hahaha. Can we at least see how the rest of the season/playoffs turn out before declaring the end of the Pete Carroll era?
 

razor150

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Unless things take a giant turn next year, I think Carroll retires on his own terms. Though what could be his downfall is the offensive line since we are 1 major, or career ending injury away from returning to the pre-Wilson team. I have never scene a team invest so little in trying to protect their franchise player.
 
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semiahmoo

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razor150":1wen3jo6 said:
Unless things take a giant turn next year, I think Carroll retires on his own terms. Though what could be his downfall is the offensive line since we are 1 major, or career ending injury away from returning to the pre-Wilson team. I have never scene a team invest so little in trying to protect their franchise player.

Agreed. If the team falls flat in the post-season, there will be some hard questions posed and next season might likely be Pete's last dance.

Carroll even seems less enthusiastic on the sidelines. Again, like the Hawks, there have been flashes of the old Pete, but more and more he appears somewhat detached from the action, and the play of the defense and offense have mirrored that detachment at some critical times.

Never seen that from him before.

I hope I'm wrong, but right now am convinced something is off about the Hawks this season, and it's permeating throughout the team, from coaching staff, to Wilson, and beyond.
 

onepicknick

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Oh yea I definitely want to return to the bottom of the PIT with another coach, Pete Carroll is the best coach we ever had. As far as Wilson I want you to think about something he got his money, he got his Lady, he's gained 50lb I think he probably doesn't think football all the time now, So giving 100% at practice and studying is all in the past, When he gets use to his life now with the new woman lets say 2 years he'll return.

Remember how it was when you found what you thought was the one all your time is spent thinking about her.

As far as the D I wish they would show the Buc's Defense tapes to our D and say watch the linebackers as soon as someone comes out of the backfield for a short pass there all over them we have lack this for the past two years this will be our third.

This might be why quarterbacks have a sophomore slump the rookie year is all about football then they try to balance life and football when they feel secure in a relationship then they think more about football again.
 

Bobblehead

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I"d like to see how we do with the hapless lambs next week before we make any sort of judgment.
 

Sports Hernia

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I don't think the "2nd and wrong" in XLIX in the player's eyes is the reason for the downturn.
Too many games and plays since then. We as fans can simplistically look and say "there was the moment".

The salary cap, injuries, age, and maybe overconfidence by the coaching staff at times may be a problem and reasons for the drop off, but what happens if they go to the Super Bowl and win it THIS YEAR??? .....with those same issues.

There is still a ton of talent on this team, the core of this team is still strong. Have they underachieved for their talent level this year? YES. Have the coaching staff been slow to make ingame adjustments, IMHO yes. Have injuries to key players of the core been an issue, YES!


There have been a lot less talented teams in the NFL win the Super Bowl in the past decade than this team.
This is a down year for the NFL, if any year is the year to struggle but still make the playoffs and win it all, it's this year.

*allas, the best team recordwise, has looked like poo the past couple of games and if their opponents had any kind of offense they get smoked like Seattle did at GB today. It's all when you peak which is hopefully in the playoffs for Seattle.
 

Sports Hernia

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austinslater25":3l8kzrm9 said:
You will be. They are 8-4-1 and had their first blowout in 5 years. Every other team in the league has been blown out multiple times. I think you're overreacting. But maybe I'm wrong.
No, I think you are correct.
 

Sports Hernia

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austinslater25":3t5dnphf said:
You will be. They are 8-4-1 and had their first blowout in 5 years. Every other team in the league has been blown out multiple times. I think you're overreacting. But maybe I'm wrong.
No, I think you are correct.
 

NFSeahawks

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I agree with the OP's overall premise. I stated something similarly in another thread not about Pete retiring but on his long term decision making or lack thereof. I think hes done after this contract personally.

As for Wilson I strongly disagree and believe hes been well above average for the entirity of his career. His second worst game was two weeks ago and his worst today, but I don't believe that signifies a decline in him as a QB or that hes peaked. He's having a slightly off year but I wouldn't even venture to say that it's been bad overall.

I do think this lack of defining whether were a running or passing team is hurting us though.

One thing is clear to me, the key to our success is establishing the run.

Edit: I do also feel the post is slightly knee jerk, but understand the frustration.
 

Rob12

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This is how spoiled we have become.

This team is 8-4-1 and half a game out from the No. 2 seed. They are ahead in their division by a country mile. They have been decimated by injuries this season.

As bad as things have looked at times, and with some of the OP being true, this team has actually shown a lot this season. Our QB hasn't been healthy all season. We lost Chancellor for four games in the middle of the season. Bennett missed time following knee surgery. Mike Morgan hit IR early. Earl Thomas is on IR. Rawls missed a grip of games and is still on a snap count. Britt has been hobbled. Lockett had a bum knee and it showed for weeks. I'm sure there are other injuries that I am forgetting.

This team isn't crippled by the SB 49 loss. And if they are, they are mentally weak, which is in stark contrast to what they have achieved over the past five seasons. They are not mentally weak. If they were, they wouldn't have came back from a 31-0 deficit in last year's playoff game against the Panthers. Instead, they fought their asses off and closed the gap, and were an onside kick recovery away from completing the comeback. If the SB loss still affected them, they would have mailed it in and quit like so many teams in this league do when they are getting their heads kicked in.

People are finicky as hell around here. Today was a brutally ugly loss, and one we haven't seen in more than five years. Nothing went right. But this is the NFL, and things happen. The New York Giants, in the not so distant past, lost six straight games and still won a SB. They didn't give up when things got bad because they had been there before, and they knew what it would take to turn it around. Why do we not think the winningest team over the past five seasons won't do the same? This team is battle tested and knows how to win.

I honestly expect better. And I believe they will turn it around. All it takes is a run. Any team in the NFC can be beat. Dallas showed that tonight. And if any team in the NFC can go on a run, it's the Seahawks.

This isn't even close to the end of the PC Era.
 

Siouxhawk

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Rob12":13kzbvq1 said:
This is how spoiled we have become.

This team is 8-4-1 and half a game out from the No. 2 seed. They are ahead in their division by a country mile. They have been decimated by injuries this season.

As bad as things have looked at times, and with some of the OP being true, this team has actually shown a lot this season. Our QB hasn't been healthy all season. We lost Chancellor for four games in the middle of the season. Bennett missed time following knee surgery. Mike Morgan hit IR early. Earl Thomas is on IR. Rawls missed a grip of games and is still on a snap count. Britt has been hobbled. Lockett had a bum knee and it showed for weeks. I'm sure there are other injuries that I am forgetting.

This team isn't crippled by the SB 49 loss. And if they are, they are mentally weak, which is in stark contrast to what they have achieved over the past five seasons. They are not mentally weak. If they were, they wouldn't have came back from a 31-0 deficit in last year's playoff game against the Panthers. Instead, they fought their asses off and closed the gap, and were an onside kick recovery away from completing the comeback. If the SB loss still affected them, they would have mailed it in and quit like so many teams in this league do when they are getting their heads kicked in.

People are finicky as hell around here. Today was a brutally ugly loss, and one we haven't seen in more than five years. Nothing went right. But this is the NFL, and things happen. The New York Giants, in the not so distant past, lost six straight games and still won a SB. They didn't give up when things got bad because they had been there before, and they knew what it would take to turn it around. Why do we not think the winningest team over the past five seasons won't do the same? This team is battle tested and knows how to win.

I honestly expect better. And I believe they will turn it around. All it takes is a run. Any team in the NFC can be beat. Dallas showed that tonight. And if any team in the NFC can go on a run, it's the Seahawks.

This isn't even close to the end of the PC Era.
I enjoyed this Rob!
 

MrThortan

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Yup. Death to the Pete Carroll era! Bring on the era of..... Darrell Bevell!!! Let the Prince be crowned!!!
 

JustTheTip

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Sports Hernia":37x87q66 said:
I don't think the "2nd and wrong" in XLIX in the player's eyes is the reason for the downturn.
Too many games and plays since then. We as fans can simplistically look and say "there was the moment".

The salary cap, injuries, age, and maybe overconfidence by the coaching staff at times may be a problem and reasons for the drop off, but what happens if they go to the Super Bowl and win it THIS YEAR??? .....with those same issues.

There is still a ton of talent on this team, the core of this team is still strong. Have they underachieved for their talent level this year? YES. Have the coaching staff been slow to make ingame adjustments, IMHO yes. Have injuries to key players of the core been an issue, YES!


There have been a lot less talented teams in the NFL win the Super Bowl in the past decade than this team.
This is a down year for the NFL, if any year is the year to struggle but still make the playoffs and win it all, it's this year.

*allas, the best team recordwise, has looked like poo the past couple of games and if their opponents had any kind of offense they get smoked like Seattle did at GB today. It's all when you peak which is hopefully in the playoffs for Seattle.

I agree with pretty much everything here. But while I don't think the XLIX is the reason for the downturn, I think it was damaging to Pete's credibility in the eyes of the players. When you are being told to always compete and held to that standard, and then watch a coach make that call and then throw his players under the bus... I think I would be sitting there thinking WTH. While I wouldn't call it a downfall, this team has had a different feel to it since then.
 

Seahawk Sailor

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The team got blown out for the first time under Pete Carroll! Doom and dispair! We'll never win again, and Pete Carroll will be run out of town and forced to live in a shack in the Arizona wilderness!

beaker-awesomeness-o.gif
 

Siouxhawk

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Bitter":2npiyqyt said:
Sports Hernia":2npiyqyt said:
I don't think the "2nd and wrong" in XLIX in the player's eyes is the reason for the downturn.
Too many games and plays since then. We as fans can simplistically look and say "there was the moment".

The salary cap, injuries, age, and maybe overconfidence by the coaching staff at times may be a problem and reasons for the drop off, but what happens if they go to the Super Bowl and win it THIS YEAR??? .....with those same issues.

There is still a ton of talent on this team, the core of this team is still strong. Have they underachieved for their talent level this year? YES. Have the coaching staff been slow to make ingame adjustments, IMHO yes. Have injuries to key players of the core been an issue, YES!


There have been a lot less talented teams in the NFL win the Super Bowl in the past decade than this team.
This is a down year for the NFL, if any year is the year to struggle but still make the playoffs and win it all, it's this year.

*allas, the best team recordwise, has looked like poo the past couple of games and if their opponents had any kind of offense they get smoked like Seattle did at GB today. It's all when you peak which is hopefully in the playoffs for Seattle.

I agree with pretty much everything here. But while I don't think the XLIX is the reason for the downturn, I think it was damaging to Pete's credibility in the eyes of the players. When you are being told to always compete and held to that standard, and then watch a coach make that call and then throw his players under the bus... I think I would be sitting there thinking WTH. While I wouldn't call it a downfall, this team has had a different feel to it since then.
Never threw a player under a bus. Just keeping the facts real.
 

kf3339

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I will only say this about the OP title subject.

This may not be soon the end of the Pete Carroll era, but I sure as hell hope it is the end of his constant optimism in his coaches and players with no one really held accountable for their actions. This was a really bad game and he needs to make that really clear to all concerned.

Personally, I would make it clear heads will roll this off-season if both don't get their buts in gear and correct their individual performances. Both players and coaches.
 
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