We're sorry, Tical. You were right, please forgive us, Tical

SoulfishHawk

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Good points ^
Mahomes made SEVERAL boneheaded plays and/or throws this year. Same with Allen and Russ.
Rodgers was so bad (by his standards) one year, people were talking about him being washed, trade him etc.
Yes, Lord Rodgers had a year like that. Many QB's have off season's compared to their normal play. It happens.
 

keasley45

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pittpnthrs":14nabcjk said:
keasley45":14nabcjk said:
He needs the run game to function completely because it's what allows him to beat the defenses that can take away what he doesn't do best. He has proven that he struggles to do it with his arm.

A good run game helps any QB without a doubt, but your statement isnt entirely true. Russ has carried the team with his arm plenty of times. Remember 2015 when Lynch and Rawls were both hurt and Wilson had a passer rating of over 120 for 5 straight games (longest in league history) to carry the team to the finish? Its harder for him now, but dont sell the guy short (no pun intended).

Pitt. Lol... so many puns... I don't disagree. But that year, Russ was just taking over games utilizing all of his scrambling, passing, and rushing skills. He was much more open to just pulling the ball down multiple times per game and running whenever it was needed. That was a huge reason why he was able to do what he did, and it was frankly Russ at the top of his game.

Remember Russ's rookie year before the Bears game when we started to incorporate some of RG3's game? Before that game Russ was good, but not great. after that game, he was unstoppable. That span lasted until 2016 or so and since then has been gradually decreasing since. If our rb's weren't keeping defenses honest and forcing them to drop a guy in the box, Russ would make them do it on his own.

Since then, he's been much more apt to try to be a prototypical pocket passer. And in that role, although stats show he can get the ball out quickly, that he's efficient WHEN he passes, the matter at hand is the ball going where it needs to to beat the coverages that are causing us troubles.

You can see on tape, Russ getting the ball out in 1.9 seconds to Lock or DK in the flat on a simple read pretty consistently (using this as an example). Quick pass (check), high completion percentage (check). But what's lost is the read that was possibly there on the other side of the play that rather than getting 6 yards and leaving us with a 4th and 2, gets us 8 and a 1st down.

Defenses have been giving us the simple reads because Russ will see them pre-snap and take them, and have shown over and over again that they'll leave areas of the field vulnerable. But we don't hit those plays when they're disguised well enough pre snap or require a more detailed progression.

The run game, rather than relying on Russ to make those reads and force defenses to change coverage, puts them in a position where they have to play to stop the run, which forces a more reactive alignment, less hocus pocus, and more them needing to forego masks to plug run gaps.

So they drop a guy to stop Penny or Carson, and he start hitting the mid range stuff. Keep pounding them, they soften their coverages to compensate and Russ feasts over the top.

The difference between Russ and Rodgers for example is that Rodgers obviously functions better with a strong run game. But he's also capable of just walking up to the line, seeing coverage, making the correct adjustment, and hitting the guy he knows will be open as a result. Over, and over, and over again.

And I hate him for that.
 

pittpnthrs

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keasley45":34sbqr9g said:
pittpnthrs":34sbqr9g said:
keasley45":34sbqr9g said:
He needs the run game to function completely because it's what allows him to beat the defenses that can take away what he doesn't do best. He has proven that he struggles to do it with his arm.

A good run game helps any QB without a doubt, but your statement isnt entirely true. Russ has carried the team with his arm plenty of times. Remember 2015 when Lynch and Rawls were both hurt and Wilson had a passer rating of over 120 for 5 straight games (longest in league history) to carry the team to the finish? Its harder for him now, but dont sell the guy short (no pun intended).

Pitt. Lol... so many puns... I don't disagree. But that year, Russ was just taking over games utilizing all of his scrambling, passing, and rushing skills. He was much more open to just pulling the ball down multiple times per game and running whenever it was needed. That was a huge reason why he was able to do what he did, and it was frankly Russ at the top of his game.

Remember Russ's rookie year before the Bears game when we started to incorporate some of RG3's game? Before that game Russ was good, but not great. after that game, he was unstoppable. That span lasted until 2016 or so and since then has been gradually decreasing since. If our rb's weren't keeping defenses honest and forcing them to drop a guy in the box, Russ would make them do it on his own.

Since then, he's been much more apt to try to be a prototypical pocket passer. And in that role, although stats show he can get the ball out quickly, that he's efficient WHEN he passes, the matter at hand is the ball going where it needs to to beat the coverages that are causing us troubles.

You can see on tape, Russ getting the ball out in 1.9 seconds to Lock or DK in the flat on a simple read pretty consistently (using this as an example). Quick pass (check), high completion percentage (check). But what's lost is the read that was possibly there on the other side of the play that rather than getting 6 yards and leaving us with a 4th and 2, gets us 8 and a 1st down.

Defenses have been giving us the simple reads because Russ will see them pre-snap and take them, and have shown over and over again that they'll leave areas of the field vulnerable. But we don't hit those plays when they're disguised well enough pre snap or require a more detailed progression.

The run game, rather than relying on Russ to make those reads and force defenses to change coverage, puts them in a position where they have to play to stop the run, which forces a more reactive alignment, less hocus pocus, and more them needing to forego masks to plug run gaps.

So they drop a guy to stop Penny or Carson, and he start hitting the mid range stuff. Keep pounding them, they soften their coverages to compensate and Russ feasts over the top.

The difference between Russ and Rodgers for example is that Rodgers obviously functions better with a strong run game. But he's also capable of just walking up to the line, seeing coverage, making the correct adjustment, and hitting the guy he knows will be open as a result. Over, and over, and over again.

And I hate him for that.

I said its harder for him presently, but he has carried the team with his arm. 2015 was just an example. Its happened plenty of times after that.

I kind of laugh when people point out some of Wilsons problems, they always bring up Rodgers, Mahomes, or Brady. Thats some pretty damn good company to be making comparisons with. It pretty much explains how effective Wilson has been for such a long period of time. Russ isnt perfect for sure and he should work on some areas of his game, but he isnt the problem. How about fixing the obvious issues before choosing to beat up on the QB.
 

John63

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Okay, this whole thing is getting old.

For one we are giving air to tical which is a waste period 2 the whole thing about how Wilson needs a run game because he can't read defenses are wrong. heck, the announcers just said it in the last game. that said okay let look at it.

2020
Wilson has a passer rating of 105 40 tds over 4k yards, completed 69% of his passes. top Rusher 681 yards 2nd rusher 513 and that was Wilson. Not much of a run game there now unless you can Wilson. Winning record

2017
Wilson 96 passer rating, 34 tds, 3983 yards, and he was our leading rusher and accounted for over 80$% of the total yards and over 95% of total tds in fact everyone but 1. Its the first time any QB ever did that in the NFL. winning record.

2016
Wilson had a 93 passer rating, 4219 yards, 21 tds, and the best rusher 469 yards. winning record

2015
110 passer rating, 34 tds, best rusher 830 yards but #2 Wilson. winning record

So yes he can lead this team to win records without a run game Does the run game help heck yeah it helps every Qb


Let look at Lord Rodgers
2021
he has 2 Rbs who split time and get our 1500 yards avg 4.5 ypc Rodgers has 101 rushing yeah he has a run game

2020
he has a 1k yard rusher

2019
again a 1k yard rusher

I can go on and on. The fact is Rodger's worse seasons came when he had no run game example 2018, 2017.

All QBs are better with a good to great RUn game and the whole fallacy Wilson can't read defenses is also wrong. as I have already shown in the threads. That does not mean he does not get full sometimes, but guess what they all get fooled sometimes. The problem I see is the vacuum some of you have to think it's only Wilson it's not. Does he have his areas of needing improvement of course they all do even Lord Rodgers and Brady.

Now, all that aside if the last 2 games are any indication and if they hold true to what they did things are looking very very bright.
 

QuahHawk

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As nice as it was to see the Hawks finish strong. I don't think Russ really believes that he is a product of the run game and we would be better off trying to find a new leader at QB, bolster our Defense and build the #1 running offense in the NFL.

Some of our best seasons we were highly rated YPG rushing team
2010 = 89 YPG = #31 in NFL, record 7-9, OC Bates
2011 = 109 YPG = #21 in NFL, record 7-9, OC Bevell
2012 = 161.2 YPG = #3 in NFL record 11-5, OC Bevell
2013 = 136.8 YPG = #4 in NFL record 13-3, OC Bevell
2014 = 172.6 YPG = #1 in NFL record12-4, OC Bevell
2015 = 141.8 YPG = #3 in NFL record 10-6, OC Bevell
2016 = 99.4 YPG = #24 in NFL record 10-5-1, OC Bevell
2017 = 101.8 YPG = #23 in NFL record 9-7, OC Bevell
2018 = 160 YPG = #1 in NFL record 10-6, OC Schotty
2019 = 137 YPG = #4 in NFL record 11-5, OC Schotty
2020 = 123 YPG = #12 in NFL record 12-4, OC Schotty
2021 = 122 YPG = #11 in NFL Record 7-10, OC Waldron
 

John63

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QuahHawk":1ogov8kw said:
As nice as it was to see the Hawks finish strong. I don't think Russ really believes that he is a product of the run game and we would be better off trying to find a new leader at QB, bolster our Defense and build the #1 running offense in the NFL.

Some of our best seasons we were highly rated YPG rushing team
2010 = 89 YPG = #31 in NFL, record 7-9, OC Bates
2011 = 109 YPG = #21 in NFL, record 7-9, OC Bevell
2012 = 161.2 YPG = #3 in NFL record 11-5, OC Bevell
2013 = 136.8 YPG = #4 in NFL record 13-3, OC Bevell
2014 = 172.6 YPG = #1 in NFL record12-4, OC Bevell
2015 = 141.8 YPG = #3 in NFL record 10-6, OC Bevell
2016 = 99.4 YPG = #24 in NFL record 10-5-1, OC Bevell
2017 = 101.8 YPG = #23 in NFL record 9-7, OC Bevell
2018 = 160 YPG = #1 in NFL record 10-6, OC Schotty
2019 = 137 YPG = #4 in NFL record 11-5, OC Schotty
2020 = 123 YPG = #12 in NFL record 12-4, OC Schotty
2021 = 122 YPG = #11 in NFL Record 7-10, OC Waldron


The problem with all that is you are forgetting a few things for example how good was the defense in those years

Also, let look at those rushing numbers shall we
2012 31 per game came from Wilson
2013 34 per game came from Wilson
2014 53 per game came from Wilson
2015 35 per game from Wilson
2016 only 16 from Wilson interesting how no Wilson yards go down.
2017 Wilson led the team
2018 24 per game from Wilson
2019 21 per game form Wilson
2020 32 per game from Wilson
2021 12 per game


So if you take Wilson yardage per game off and you get well not good.

As I have said Every Qb benefits from a strong run game I posted Rodgers as an example his worst years were with no run game.
So saying Wilson needs a run game is well stupid all QBs need a run game. Now as to Wilsoon



Also, it's not just about the yardage per game it is about the YPC. Who cares if you get 100 yards a game if it takes 30 carries. not going to help you much.

Now as to Wilson is a product of the run game well he is not. Does he benefit from it like all QBs yes, Do things get easier with a strong run game of course. Are we even better with a run game of course.

But he is not a product of it, example if he was a product of the run game then why in 2017
did Wilson do something that no other QB has ever done? He accounted for over 80% of the total offensive yards this team had and over 95% of the total tds never been done before. The run game was ranked 23rd. He led us to a winning record and was 3 or 4 missed FGs from a 12+ win season and the playoffs. and not only was our run game ranked 23rd but our defense was ranked 22nd. Not many Qbs could do that.

So no he is not a product of the run game and he has proved that. But like any QB he and the team is better with a run game and he knows that. If you paid attention to the last game he audibled multiple times either to a run or to a different run to help the team.
 
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