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Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson

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Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:52 am
  • Our Success in the playoffs will depend on which Russell Wilson shows up. Over the last 9 games, he has been a lower third QB. If you extrapolate his numbers from the last 9 games over the course of the year, he would be at

    3664 yards
    24TDs (2nd lowest of his career)
    13INT (most of his career)
    92.2 QB Rating (Lowest of his career)

    I would consider 2-3 weeks an anomaly, but 9 weeks of mediocre play to close the Season is maybe what he is at this point. Unless if there is a miracle, we squeak past LA, and lose to the Saints. I don’t want to hear the injury excuse because every player in the NFL at this point is injured in some way shape or form. His performance fell off the cliff and hasn’t recovered.

    It’s time to start planning for the future because I don’t think the Podcasts and Perfume distractions are going anywhere.
    ludakrishna
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  • ludakrishna wrote:Our Success in the playoffs will depend on which Russell Wilson shows up. Over the last 9 games, he has been a lower third QB. If you extrapolate his numbers from the last 9 games over the course of the year, he would be at

    3664 yards
    24TDs (2nd lowest of his career)
    13INT (most of his career)
    92.2 QB Rating (Lowest of his career)

    I would consider 2-3 weeks an anomaly, but 9 weeks of mediocre play to close the Season is maybe what he is at this point. Unless if there is a miracle, we squeak past LA, and lose to the Saints. I don’t want to hear the injury excuse because every player in the NFL at this point is injured in some way shape or form. His performance fell off the cliff and hasn’t recovered.

    It’s time to start planning for the future because I don’t think the Podcasts and Perfume distractions are going anywhere.

    I love Russ, I just don’t think he’s worth 35 million a year.
    PNW
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  • Russell Wilson has 3 incredible strengths:

    1 - Does not get flustered. Pressure does not seem to affect his accuracy or decision-making.

    2 - One of the best at throwing with accuracy on the move to either direction.

    3 - Incredible touch and accuracy on the long ball.

    I am curious just how much his falloff is the result of our inability to really scheme out effective passing plays that are not long developing. I see a lot of low percentage long balls to our receivers running down the sidelines. He is legit missing some of these, but some are missed because referees are loathe to call contact chucking our receivers off their routes.

    Not saying he does not look off, but we appear to be forcing gameplans to leverage #3 instead of taking advantage of #1 and #2 more. Is he distracted or injured? We would only know at the end of the season. But he could absolutely be used better. Giving him a garbage gameplan and expecting him to make it work because he is Russell Wilson anyway...ignores the % success rates on some of this.

    Some of this is defenses learning how to defend him better because they are getting more time facing mobile QBs with so many out there now. But we are not helping him.
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  • I fully believe that PC is of the mindset that he can take a shot at the Super Bowl because he now has a top defense, strong run game and so long as he dials Wilson back into game manager Wilson and not Comeback Wilson, he’ll avoid turnovers, keep the score close whoever the opponent is, and let 4th quarter magic do the rest.

    unfortunately that view is a delusion because our defense, while improved, has not proven itself against any of the top tier quarterbacks it is going to see in the playoffs. Anyone who thinks keeping all these teams to 20 or less translates into similar results vs. Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes, Brady, etc is kidding themselves, and when we are down 2 touchdowns vs the likes one of these quarterbacks, kiss whatever run game we’ve got out the window, they’ll unleash Wilson and we’ll live or die on the skill and luck of his deep ball on 3rd and 3’s whilst praying to the football gods the refs don’t commit rules malpractice.

    Cant predict the future but I’d be shocked, absolutely shocked, if our offense and defense both come out on fire, even against the Rams, let alone the saints or packers or bucs. We are going to have to be the comeback squad exactly as showcased VS the 49ers, only with a far better quarterback on the other side of the ball. Imo it isn’t going to work.
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  • :laugh:
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  • I think you are right Hawaii.

    Which is an odd plan.

    If you look at the top teams in the NFC, we have a worse defense than all of them.

    We also have a lesser roster.

    The only area we have an arguable advantage is:
    LB
    S
    WR
    QB

    Since LB and S are in a defense that is clearly nowhere near the caliber of the other teams, the only way to expect to win those games is to put your QB and WR in positions to use their own strengths to get the win. Helping you is that the league has tilted many of the rules and advantages toward the passing team and QB.

    Pete's ridiculous and prone to failure solution in the playoffs is to bare minimum our passing and QB, but for moonshots to keep the opposing safeties out of the LOS. At least until you are down multiple TDs or down in the 4th.

    Without the LOB, it does not work. It won't work. (But expecting this team to get to the SB would make no sense anyway. I just want a single divisional playoff game win)

    I don't think the elephant in the room is Wilson. I think it is how we are using him. Pete always gets a free pass on this. We literally lost a playoff game to the Cowboys because we ran the ball repeatedly with Mike Davis (a zero star RB) instead using our HOF QB until it was too late. But I expect it again.

    Pete is the elephant, not Wilson.
    Last edited by TwistedHusky on Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Yes let's completely ignore what he did for the 2.5 seasons before this (playing at a top 2 or 3 level in the league). Let's ignore things such as scheme and the that fact that our defense was awful in the first half of the season and we decided to make our offensive more conservative and about ball control.

    As a point of comparison, Aaron Rodgers was very average for about 3 out of 4 years from 2015-2018. I guess the Packers should have cut bait on him right? Once he got a new scheme and some new talent, he's back to playing great again. Funny how that works.
    A_Biased_Fan
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  • A_Biased_Fan wrote:Yes let's completely ignore what he did for the 2.5 seasons before this (playing at a top 2 or 3 level in the league). Let's ignore things such as scheme and the that fact that our defense was awful in the first half of the season and we decided to make our offensive more conservative and about ball control.

    As a point of comparison, Aaron Rodgers was very average for about 3 out of 4 years from 2015-2018. I guess the Packers should have cut bait on him right? Once he got a new scheme and some new talent, he's back to playing great again. Funny how that works.



    Sooo...fire Pete Carroll?
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:20 am
  • Hawaii-hawk wrote:I fully believe that PC is of the mindset that he can take a shot at the Super Bowl because he now has a top defense, strong run game and so long as he dials Wilson back into game manager Wilson and not Comeback Wilson, he’ll avoid turnovers, keep the score close whoever the opponent is, and let 4th quarter magic do the rest.

    unfortunately that view is a delusion because our defense, while improved, has not proven itself against any of the top tier quarterbacks it is going to see in the playoffs. Anyone who thinks keeping all these teams to 20 or less translates into similar results vs. Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes, Brady, etc is kidding themselves, and when we are down 2 touchdowns vs the likes one of these quarterbacks, kiss whatever run game we’ve got out the window, they’ll unleash Wilson and we’ll live or die on the skill and luck of his deep ball on 3rd and 3’s whilst praying to the football gods the refs don’t commit rules malpractice.

    Cant predict the future but I’d be shocked, absolutely shocked, if our offense and defense both come out on fire, even against the Rams, let alone the saints or packers or bucs. We are going to have to be the comeback squad exactly as showcased VS the 49ers, only with a far better quarterback on the other side of the ball. Imo it isn’t going to work.


    I am also worried about our defense, because they havent proven anything against better opponents. Yet, they have hit their stride and hopefully carry it to the playoffs. As far as wilson. You lost me. Saying qbs on the other teams are better. Nah. More clutch nah. Better in pressure situations...hell to the no.

    Oh and the original poster...get ya hating ass out of here. Mediocre my ass! Good thing you dont count 9 weeks instead of 16. Good thing you dont calculate a season based on 9 of 16. Good thing no one here calculates their faith based on you ridiculous input.

    If russ is so mediocre now...do you think the hawks should look for another qb who gets hit often, pressured often and is worse at moving around trying to avoid getting sacked because we have the worst pass blocking in the league? Just wondering.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:27 am
  • The same Russ who has the 2nd more Touchdown Passes in NFL HISTORY over his first 9 seasons.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:29 am
  • ludakrishna wrote:
    A_Biased_Fan wrote:Yes let's completely ignore what he did for the 2.5 seasons before this (playing at a top 2 or 3 level in the league). Let's ignore things such as scheme and the that fact that our defense was awful in the first half of the season and we decided to make our offensive more conservative and about ball control.

    As a point of comparison, Aaron Rodgers was very average for about 3 out of 4 years from 2015-2018. I guess the Packers should have cut bait on him right? Once he got a new scheme and some new talent, he's back to playing great again. Funny how that works.



    Sooo...fire Pete Carroll?


    Either Schotty needs to revamp his scheme in the offseason or we need to bring in someone who can be as creative as Reid or LaFleur are. Tall task I know, but have to consider a change at OC to maximize the talent we have on offense.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:40 am
  • Russ had a bad stretch of ball security in the middle of the season with 10 turnovers in a four game stretch. Outside of that, however, his ball security has been has been great. He's had three total turnovers the last six games with one, maybe two, of them being the receiver's fault.

    It's also true that he's been in a bit of slump in the second half of the season, but we've largely been facing teams with good defenses and bad offenses, while our own defense has begun playing much better. If we're playing to win games and not just pile up stats then it makes sense to be more conservative on offense in those situations, particularly after that four game stretch in the middle of the season that resulted in 3 of our 4 losses on the year.

    The other thing that people need to keep in mind with all this over-emphasis on play by quarters is that most QBs look a lot better statistically in trailing situations. Having a fourth down to work with makes a huge difference, as does a softer defense that is allowing easy short completions to the middle of the field. It's only natural that Seahawks fans notice this a lot with a Seahawks QB, but you can find a similar narrative arc all across the NFL this season.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:46 am
  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Hawaii-hawk wrote:I fully believe that PC is of the mindset that he can take a shot at the Super Bowl because he now has a top defense, strong run game and so long as he dials Wilson back into game manager Wilson and not Comeback Wilson, he’ll avoid turnovers, keep the score close whoever the opponent is, and let 4th quarter magic do the rest.

    unfortunately that view is a delusion because our defense, while improved, has not proven itself against any of the top tier quarterbacks it is going to see in the playoffs. Anyone who thinks keeping all these teams to 20 or less translates into similar results vs. Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes, Brady, etc is kidding themselves, and when we are down 2 touchdowns vs the likes one of these quarterbacks, kiss whatever run game we’ve got out the window, they’ll unleash Wilson and we’ll live or die on the skill and luck of his deep ball on 3rd and 3’s whilst praying to the football gods the refs don’t commit rules malpractice.

    Cant predict the future but I’d be shocked, absolutely shocked, if our offense and defense both come out on fire, even against the Rams, let alone the saints or packers or bucs. We are going to have to be the comeback squad exactly as showcased VS the 49ers, only with a far better quarterback on the other side of the ball. Imo it isn’t going to work.


    I am also worried about our defense, because they havent proven anything against better opponents. Yet, they have hit their stride and hopefully carry it to the playoffs. As far as wilson. You lost me. Saying qbs on the other teams are better. Nah. More clutch nah. Better in pressure situations...hell to the no.

    Oh and the original poster...get ya hating ass out of here. Mediocre my ass! Good thing you dont count 9 weeks instead of 16. Good thing you dont calculate a season based on 9 of 16. Good thing no one here calculates their faith based on you ridiculous input.

    If russ is so mediocre now...do you think the hawks should look for another qb who gets hit often, pressured often and is worse at moving around trying to avoid getting sacked because we have the worst pass blocking in the league? Just wondering.


    Hating ass? Stating facts is negative? Closing out the season with mediocre QB performance and pointing it out is called being a hater. I want the Seahawks to win a SB as much as any other fan, but I’m also going to call it like it is, for more than half of the season, he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB.

    Worst pass blocking line? PFF has us ranked 15th in pass blocking. Middle of the road....yet Russ was in the top tier of QB getting sacked....seems like a QB holding onto the ball too long

    Look for a replacement? I’ve said it for a while, we need to groom a QB of the future. Look at what GB did with Farve and now Rodgers. Rodgers was mediocre for 2 straight years and this year has been on fire ever since GB drafted his potential successor.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:06 am
  • Defenses have changed how they play Russ ever since the Vikings game. They run a ton of cover 2 and cover 4 with varied pre-snap alignments but the same 2 deep safety coverage. Those shot plays that worked for 5 weeks haven't worked because teams got film and saw how explosively successful they were (and how often they were called). Couple that with a rather limited short to intermediate passing game, we see a lot less chunk plays and a lot more struggle. It is VERY rare for DK to get single coverage deep down the sidelines anymore outside of the Eagles game where they thought single coverage was a good idea.

    The problem I've seen is they really haven't adjusted on offense to this, at least through 3 quarters of each game. The middle of the field should be eaten alive against these coverages but a lot of those same slow developing sideline homeruns are still getting called. Russ is noticeably more gunshy since the turnover spree - probably with some nudging from Pete - and that's why the team only really moves the ball when it's 4th quarter go time and they're uptempo. You can see a clear switch in philosophy and scheme when they need to get things rolling and it's frustrating they can't come out with that same energy, especially since the defense is finally playing above average ball.

    This might work against a Goff-less Rams assuming the game stays close but I have a hard time picturing the D getting consistent stops against the Packers, Bucs, and Saints which will be the same exact dance as the last few playoffs. Down big early by halftime, offense with only a FG or two puttering along, clearly shift into Russ mode late and it's close towards the end but not really in doubt. They'll need to come out firing and give the D a lead against those teams to make a run this year.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:17 am
  • ludakrishna wrote:he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB


    His cap hit is $31 million.

    What is your number? What should he be paid?
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:34 am
  • 4000yrds+ passing
    500+yrds rushing
    40TDs + 2TDs rushing
    69% Completion
    Passer Rating 105.1
    3 Game Winning Drives

    Won Division 12-4
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:41 am
  • rcaido wrote:4000yrds+ passing
    500+yrds rushing
    40TDs + 2TDs rushing
    69% Completion
    Passer Rating 105.1
    3 Game Winning Drives

    Won Division 12-4


    How did he finish over the last half of the season? Is that worthy of his salary?
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:44 am
  • ludakrishna wrote:
    rcaido wrote:4000yrds+ passing
    500+yrds rushing
    40TDs + 2TDs rushing
    69% Completion
    Passer Rating 105.1
    3 Game Winning Drives

    Won Division 12-4


    How did he finish over the last half of the season? Is that worthy of his salary?

    yes
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:47 am
  • rcaido wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:
    rcaido wrote:4000yrds+ passing
    500+yrds rushing
    40TDs + 2TDs rushing
    69% Completion
    Passer Rating 105.1
    3 Game Winning Drives

    Won Division 12-4


    How did he finish over the last half of the season? Is that worthy of his salary?

    yes


    Lol okay.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:49 am
  • Don't bother, you'd have been luck performing surgery on yourself.
    Mediocre, yeah right.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:51 am
  • bmorepunk wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB


    His cap hit is $31 million.

    What is your number? What should he be paid?



    Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:52 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Don't bother, you'd have been luck performing surgery on yourself.
    Mediocre, yeah right.


    Over the last 9 games, he ranks as the 19th QB. That is considered not mediocre?
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:54 am
  • ludakrishna wrote:
    rcaido wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:
    rcaido wrote:4000yrds+ passing
    500+yrds rushing
    40TDs + 2TDs rushing
    69% Completion
    Passer Rating 105.1
    3 Game Winning Drives

    Won Division 12-4


    How did he finish over the last half of the season? Is that worthy of his salary?

    yes


    Lol okay.


    The team went 6-2 for last half of the season. If you can be 12-4 every season of course he is worth the salary.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:02 pm
  • ludakrishna wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB


    His cap hit is $31 million.

    What is your number? What should he be paid?



    Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs


    Nick Foles? The guy who lost his job to Turbisky? You think he would do better than Russ? He had a cap hit of 22million this year. Wilson 31million.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:19 pm
  • Do you guys realize that the Seahawks set a franchise record for points scored this season?

    Cherry picking a select portion of RW's season and then claiming that is a complete representation of his ability and worth is a childish way to go about it.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:20 pm
  • rcaido wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB


    His cap hit is $31 million.

    What is your number? What should he be paid?



    Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs


    Nick Foles? The guy who lost his job to Turbisky? You think he would do better than Russ? He had a cap hit of 22million this year. Wilson 31million.


    Getting injured is called losing his job to Trubisky? You honestly don’t have a clue about what transpired during the season. A savings of $11M to sign multiple impact players? You bet I’ll take that.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:22 pm
  • Nunya wrote:Do you guys realize that the Seahawks set a franchise record for points scored this season?

    Cherry picking a select portion of RW's season and then claiming that is a complete representation of his ability and worth is a childish way to go about it.


    Cherry picking would be me selecting at random his X number of poor games. I identified the last 9 consecutive games he’s played this season after a marvelous first 7. He and the team have not recovered offensively and I just pointed that out using facts and data, not feeling.
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:24 pm
  • 19th best?
    Time for me to bow out of this subject. I clearly get too worked up over it. And in reality, it's not that important. It's a game we have no control over. I stick to my opinions on the matter, and other's do that same, and that's fine. It just goes nowhere really.
    Just my opinion, but many of you guys will never get it when it comes to Russ. And for the record, he absolutely DOES have to play his A game for this team to go deep in the playoffs, period. And I DO know that there are things he has to avoid. Holding the ball too long, playing tentative if the o line is getting blasted etc.
    Huge playoff game on Saturday, and here it is, the 7,343th thread about Russ and doubting the guy etc. :irishdrinkers:
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:57 pm
  • ludakrishna wrote:
    Nunya wrote:Do you guys realize that the Seahawks set a franchise record for points scored this season?

    Cherry picking a select portion of RW's season and then claiming that is a complete representation of his ability and worth is a childish way to go about it.


    Cherry picking would be me selecting at random his X number of poor games. I identified the last 9 consecutive games he’s played this season after a marvelous first 7. He and the team have not recovered offensively and I just pointed that out using facts and data, not feeling.


    Ok....you want to look at stats? So let's look at those 9 games:

    Week 9 - Buffalo: LOSS
    68.29% completion
    390 yard
    2 TDs
    2 INTs
    QBR 94.6

    Week 10 - Rams LOSS
    59.46% completion
    248 yards
    0 TDs
    2 INTs
    QBR 57.0

    Week 11 - Arizona WIN
    82.14% Completion
    197 yards
    2 TDs
    0 INTs
    QBR 119.8

    Week 12 - Eagles WIN
    70.97% Completion
    230 yards
    1 TDs
    0 INTs
    QBR 102.9

    Week 13 - Giants LOSS
    62.79% Completion
    263 yards
    1 TD
    1 INT
    QBR 78.0

    Week 14 - Jets WIN
    77.78% Completion
    206 yards
    4 TDs
    1 INT
    QBR 122.6

    Week 15 - WFT WIN
    66.67% Completion
    121 yards
    1 TD
    1 INT
    QBR 73.2

    Week 16 - Rams WIN
    62.50% Completion
    225 yards
    1 TDs
    0 INTs
    QBR 93.9

    Week 17 - 49ers WIN
    55.56% Completion
    181 yards
    2 TDS
    0 INTs
    QBR 87.8

    AVERAGE
    67.35 Completion. Not too bad.
    229 yards. Again, not too bad.
    14 TDs. And again. Not too bad over 9 games
    7 INTs. And yet again. Not too bad. A little high, but still a 2:1 TD:INT ratio
    QBR 92.2. And still. Not too bad.
    Record 6-3

    While his numbers are not earth shattering over these 9 games, they are not that bad. A little above average. Some good games....some not so good. We can argue till we are blue in the face as to whether he is worth the money he is getting paid, but only looking at the tail end of the season does not bring any honesty into the discussion. The goal of any season is to make the play-offs and hopefully get the bye/home field. The team did make the playoffs and not by just squeaking in. However, it takes the WHOLE season to determine whether a team is worthy for post-season play and he should be evaluation on the WHOLE season....not just from a point to strengthen your argument that he is not worth the money.

    While this offense is not as explosive in the last 9 games as they were in the first 7 games, they still get the job done. There are about 20 teams that wish they had a QB with the stats that RW had in the last 9 games of the season.
    Nunya
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  • ludakrishna wrote:Our Success in the playoffs will depend on which Russell Wilson shows up. Over the last 9 games, he has been a lower third QB. If you extrapolate his numbers from the last 9 games over the course of the year, he would be at

    3664 yards
    24TDs (2nd lowest of his career)
    13INT (most of his career)
    92.2 QB Rating (Lowest of his career)

    I would consider 2-3 weeks an anomaly, but 9 weeks of mediocre play to close the Season is maybe what he is at this point. Unless if there is a miracle, we squeak past LA, and lose to the Saints. I don’t want to hear the injury excuse because every player in the NFL at this point is injured in some way shape or form. His performance fell off the cliff and hasn’t recovered.

    It’s time to start planning for the future because I don’t think the Podcasts and Perfume distractions are going anywhere.



    so it has not been 9 weeks of mediocre play

    Last I checked 103, 119, 122 qb ratings are note mediocre. Nor is 94 or 95 qb rating when 85 is considered avg

    So let me break Qb rating down to you last 9 games, starting with game 9 and movign to game 16

    94.6
    57
    119.8
    102.9
    78
    122.6
    73.2
    93.9
    87.9


    So not 9 weeks really only 3 bad games, 1 better than avg game and then the rest well above avg to great

    Now as to your numbers hmm in 9 games 13 ints that interesting since all he has had for the season is 13 and at least 6 came in the first 7 games. someone is not being honest with the stats.
    John63
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  • The stupid in here is hitting all time levels, it's incredible.
    Ambrose83
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  • ludakrishna wrote:
    rcaido wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:
    His cap hit is $31 million.

    What is your number? What should he be paid?



    Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs


    Nick Foles? The guy who lost his job to Turbisky? You think he would do better than Russ? He had a cap hit of 22million this year. Wilson 31million.


    Getting injured is called losing his job to Trubisky? You honestly don’t have a clue about what transpired during the season. A savings of $11M to sign multiple impact players? You bet I’ll take that.


    Turbisky beat him out as a starter in the beginning of the season...Foles also has been injury free for over a month now. Isn't Turbisky starting in the playoff? If you're no longer injured and someone else has the job, does that mean you lost your starting job?
    rcaido
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  • ludakrishna wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB


    His cap hit is $31 million.

    What is your number? What should he be paid?



    Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs



    wrong PC philosophy calls for someone who can manage the game and then take over when needed. To take ove ryou need an elite QB. the 2nd time you have either provided fales stats or false information.
    John63
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  • All these statements can be true, simultaneously.

    1) Russ is a Hall of Fame QB and is the best QB we've ever had.

    2) Russ was playing at an Elite Level at the beginning of the season.

    3) Russ became a Turn-over machine in the middle of the season.

    4) Russ appears to be trending up at the end of the season, however, he is still not playing at an Elite level.

    5) Sure, there are many valid or invalid reasons for this.

    6) However, we need Russ to be playing at an Elite level for the Hawks to advance to the SB.

    That is all.
    hoxrox
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  • I don't think there is any question that Russell Wilson is struggling right now. He's a good QB going through a rough stretch. I don't think the numbers tell the true story on Russell Wilson, and as of right now his play could be a liability come the playoffs.

    Since week 9 and even a bit before he's been off. People point to his numbers not being bad, but I think that misses the whole picture. We've really simplified the offense to an absurd degree. He doesn't look to have as much control over the pre-snap reads. In the passing game he's looking overly tentative, and his pocket presence has really taken a nose dive -- something that he's been really developing. He's not really hitting on the long passes, and his Y/A had dropped to really low levels, his accuracy on deep, and even short passes don't really look there. He's not the same Russell Wilson that we know and love.

    What is the cause? I think several things. Defenses have found a strategy that works against the Seahawks offense and Carroll refuses to adjust. Our offense as of this moment in time is prioritizing just one thing, turnovers and toxic differential. Its main goal is to run out the game clock, and limit turnovers. Our pass plays are mostly 7 step drops and crossing routes, we're avoiding the middle all together. Defenses are able to pin their ears back, and even send blitzers off the edge unabated. Nobody gets open because our offensive strategy.

    Russell Wilson has taken a real beating. I suspect we'll find out about an injury come postseason. He just doesn't have the same zip, or degree of control that he had earlier in the season. Our offensive strategy really is punishing on the QB. Carroll's avoid turnover mantra at all cost also seems to be in Wilsons head. He looks like a QB that is second guessing himself. It also looks like the hits have started to mess with Wilson. I'm seeing happy feet in the pocket, and a QB that looks shell shocked out there.

    Our offensive approach has not been doing Wilson any favors, and quite frankly it is foolish.
    Spin Doctor
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  • ludakrishna wrote:
    bmorepunk wrote:
    ludakrishna wrote:he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB


    His cap hit is $31 million.

    What is your number? What should he be paid?



    Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs


    So is Alex Smith's cap hit your number? His cap hit this year is $21.4 million. That nets $9.6 million.

    Clearly Russell Wilson can find a team to pay him a lot more resulting in a lot more than a $21.4 million cap hit. So you're advocating for someone like Smith to get less than 5% of the salary cap back?
    bmorepunk
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  • I get that people wish Wilson has been playing better in recent weeks.

    But if you think there are multiple actual starter caliber QBs out there who are going to take less than $20 mil average cap hits at this point and aren't on rookie contracts you should start looking at QB contracts.

    The only real starters this year with sub-$20 million cap hits who aren't on rookie contracts or in the end of on going into an extension are Matt Ryan (about $19 million, but next year's is over $40 million with $49 million in dead cap), Carson Wentz (about $18.5 mil this year, but next year it is like $35 million with nearly $60 million dead cap), and Bridgewater ($14 million this year, $23 million next year).

    It's roughly $10 million in savings to get to the bottom of the veteran starter market from Wilson. That's it.

    The only other option is to draft a rookie and hope that they aren't a bust. Which they probably will be.

    This team has a legitimately good to great QB depending on which week, season, or streak we're talking about. And he's going to be the 8th highest cap hit for QBs next year, only $1 million more than Cousins, $2.5 million more than Tannehill, etc.

    It would be one thing if he was Goffing it up and was nearly a $35 million hit (good luck Rams, not really), but QBs get paid what they get paid for a reason.
    bmorepunk
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  • I don't think Russell is that fat that he should be called an elephant.

    He just looks fatter because I think he wears a flak-jacket to protect for injury.
    Hockey Guy
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  • Hockey Guy wrote:I don't think Russell is that fat that he should be called an elephant.

    He just looks fatter because I think he wears a flak-jacket to protect for injury.



    they know that, but it another in the list of crap they can B...tch about, so they do.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    Hockey Guy wrote:I don't think Russell is that fat that he should be called an elephant.

    He just looks fatter because I think he wears a flak-jacket to protect for injury.



    they know that, but it another in the list of crap they can B...tch about, so they do.


    But comparing his size to an elephant & that he'll have trouble fitting into a room so we need to discuss it?

    That's a little too much fat shaming IMO.
    Hockey Guy
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  • Hockey Guy wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Hockey Guy wrote:I don't think Russell is that fat that he should be called an elephant.

    He just looks fatter because I think he wears a flak-jacket to protect for injury.



    they know that, but it another in the list of crap they can B...tch about, so they do.


    But comparing his size to an elephant & that he'll have trouble fitting into a room so we need to discuss it?

    That's a little too much fat shaming IMO.



    your right but you need to consider the source. it's the blissful group
    John63
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  • mistaowen wrote:Defenses have changed how they play Russ ever since the Vikings game. They run a ton of cover 2 and cover 4 with varied pre-snap alignments but the same 2 deep safety coverage. Those shot plays that worked for 5 weeks haven't worked because teams got film and saw how explosively successful they were (and how often they were called). Couple that with a rather limited short to intermediate passing game, we see a lot less chunk plays and a lot more struggle. It is VERY rare for DK to get single coverage deep down the sidelines anymore outside of the Eagles game where they thought single coverage was a good idea.

    The problem I've seen is they really haven't adjusted on offense to this, at least through 3 quarters of each game. The middle of the field should be eaten alive against these coverages but a lot of those same slow developing sideline homeruns are still getting called. Russ is noticeably more gunshy since the turnover spree - probably with some nudging from Pete - and that's why the team only really moves the ball when it's 4th quarter go time and they're uptempo. You can see a clear switch in philosophy and scheme when they need to get things rolling and it's frustrating they can't come out with that same energy, especially since the defense is finally playing above average ball.

    This might work against a Goff-less Rams assuming the game stays close but I have a hard time picturing the D getting consistent stops against the Packers, Bucs, and Saints which will be the same exact dance as the last few playoffs. Down big early by halftime, offense with only a FG or two puttering along, clearly shift into Russ mode late and it's close towards the end but not really in doubt. They'll need to come out firing and give the D a lead against those teams to make a run this year.

    Nailed it. We've seen that scenario play out too many times.

    My biggest issue with Pete, (other than his penchant for going ultra-conservative for the first 3 quarters in an attempt to keep the game close and winning in the 4th quarter which never works in the playoffs against quality teams like NO and GB), is his failure to adjust to what the other team is doing, both in-game, and game planning during the week. He stubbornly sticks with what they like to do regardless of what the opposing team is showing them. That has to adversely affect Russ, and our offense as a whole. As you noted, teams have adjusted defensively to what we like to do, and we have inexplicably done nothing to counter that.

    What I wouldn't give to have an OC like Bieniemy, but only if he was given full autonomy. No doubt he would build a dynamic offense around our QB, a system that takes advantage of RW's greatest strengths. Russ would excel in that type of system and we would be dynamic for 4 quarters, not just one when we're trying to make another miracle comeback.

    Of course Bieniemy would never accept that position because he's probably the hottest head coaching candidate on the market right now. And even if he didn't want a HC job yet, why would he ever leave KC, and the best QB in the league. If Pete didn't just sign a long term extension, I would have been in favor of going hard after Bieniemy.
    TraderGary
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  • I do think we will need russ to play at a high level in the playoffs. I do think rams game will be who makes the most or biggest mistake. Goff or Russ. I believe we win.
    Shanegotyou11
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:12 pm
  • No question we're going to need Russ to be at the top of his game to have any chance in the playoffs. We all know he's capable. This is his opportunity to prove all the naysayers wrong and put himself back in the elite category with Mahomes and Rodgers.
    TraderGary
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  • Absolutely, he needs to be locked in/pissed off Russ. That's how this team can do some damage.
    If he looks tentative, or the O line isn't blocking, it's a real challenge. He's def. had some games that were head scratchers (by HIS standards, and not even close to how bad they are made out to be)
    I know I am supposedly the Russ lover of all time, but he flat out DOES have to play better for this team to win. You can say that about ANY team with an elite QB. If Rodgers, Brees, Mahomes or Brady don't play their A game, they can flat out be knocked off. But there's no secret how I feel about what he can do. He's an all time great, and until I see differently, I expect a very locked in Russ on Saturday.
    Last edited by SoulfishHawk on Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
    SoulfishHawk
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:07 pm
  • Russell Wilson is the very definition of politics in America. He has to work twice as hard to get the respect of some of you. The only way he can get respect, is to throw 4 TDs a game.


    What you failed to mention, is that in the last 9 games, 4 of his 7 interceptions happened in TWO GAMES. TWO.

    Whatever the issue you and others have with Russell Wilson, it's not football. In the last 7 games he has thrown for 12 TDs and 3 Int. You can also add a rushing TD to that. Not spectacular, but not horrific especially when play calling has gotten conservative and we've statistically ran less passing plays.

    If you all want to do this thing where you treat Russell like less of a QB and a human being, suggesting that his actual good play isn't good. And twisting numbers to suit a completely biased narrative towards him, then I guess we are going to be arguing on here a lot.

    The real elephant in the room is that some of you have never truly embraced Russell Wilson since 2012, and have found every single way to diminish his accomplishments, his football IQ, and his ability for years. And it's not based on a genuine effort to be FAIR to him, at all.

    In summary, stop treating him like he's Carson Wentz. And if you believe he is Carson Wentz, you're exposing yourself because from a Factual standpoint their numbers aren't remotely close in overall performance.
    Scorpion05
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Re: Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:29 pm
  • Accurate ^
    SoulfishHawk
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:Russell Wilson is the very definition of politics in America. He has to work twice as hard to get the respect of some of you. The only way he can get respect, is to throw 4 TDs a game.


    What you failed to mention, is that in the last 9 games, 4 of his 7 interceptions happened in TWO GAMES. TWO.

    Whatever the issue you and others have with Russell Wilson, it's not football. In the last 7 games he has thrown for 12 TDs and 3 Int. You can also add a rushing TD to that. Not spectacular, but not horrific especially when play calling has gotten conservative and we've statistically ran less passing plays.

    If you all want to do this thing where you treat Russell like less of a QB and a human being, suggesting that his actual good play isn't good. And twisting numbers to suit a completely biased narrative towards him, then I guess we are going to be arguing on here a lot.

    The real elephant in the room is that some of you have never truly embraced Russell Wilson since 2012, and have found every single way to diminish his accomplishments, his football IQ, and his ability for years. And it's not based on a genuine effort to be FAIR to him, at all.

    In summary, stop treating him like he's Carson Wentz. And if you believe he is Carson Wentz, you're exposing yourself because from a Factual standpoint their numbers aren't remotely close in overall performance.



    BING BING BING we have a winner.

    Preach!!!
    John63
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  • bottom third?
    fire_marshall_bill
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  • fire_marshall_bill wrote:bottom third?



    the OP blatantly used stats he knew was wrong and when called out on it, changed the subject to another blatantly incorrect yeah to bad the FACTS and STATS show he is top 3.
    John63
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