Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Last two Super Bowls won by teams with “cheap” QBs

The Original Seattle Seahawks Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute for Seahawks Talk, News, Rumors, Trades, and Analytics. LANGUAGE: PG-13
  • I always thought that one of the main reasons the Patriots won so many Super Bowls is that they did not have to pay their QB full value. The last two SBs were won by teams with below market QBs. I don’t see it happening this year, but I wonder if the Hawks will move on from Wilson sooner than later.
    diver110
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 320
    Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:06 pm


  • diver110 wrote:I always thought that one of the main reasons the Patriots won so many Super Bowls is that they did not have to pay their QB full value. The last two SBs were won by teams with below market QBs. I don’t see it happening this year, but I wonder if the Hawks will move on from Wilson sooner than later.



    Not that simple. they were not just QBs who were not yet being paid the going rate, they were TOP QBs. Its easy to find a QB not being paid top rate. Its hard to find one that in reality is a TOP QB being paid not top rate. You literally need to get lucky enough to find a QB in the draft that ends up being a TOP QB or a TOP QB who has a way richer Wife. In the emantime while you are trying to do all that you are sub 500 and fans start leaving, merchandise sales go done etc etc. With a TOP QB even paid at the higher level you always have a chance and usually always in the hunt.


    The question is it worth it to let Rw and hope and pray knowing it could be 10+ years or keep him build around him and at least know you always have a shot.

    A bi din the hand is worth 2 in the bush lol
    John63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4406
    Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 pm


  • So was SB48. ;)

    :twisted:
    sutz
    Silver Supporter
    Silver Supporter
     
    Posts: 21903
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:41 am
    Location: Kent, WA


  • diver110 wrote:I always thought that one of the main reasons the Patriots won so many Super Bowls is that they did not have to pay their QB full value. The last two SBs were won by teams with below market QBs. I don’t see it happening this year, but I wonder if the Hawks will move on from Wilson sooner than later.


    Tom Brady had the 4th highest cap hit at QB last year at $28.35 mil.

    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/
    JGreen79
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 913
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:26 pm
    Location: Newberg, Oregon


  • I find that cheap QB thing a pretty simplistic answer. For one your young QB better be really good. Ask Bears fans about that.
    HawkRiderFan
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1202
    Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:10 pm


  • Refreshing to see a new topic !
    TreeRon
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1438
    Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:48 pm


  • diver110 wrote:I always thought that one of the main reasons the Patriots won so many Super Bowls is that they did not have to pay their QB full value. The last two SBs were won by teams with below market QBs. I don’t see it happening this year, but I wonder if the Hawks will move on from Wilson sooner than later.

    Seriously? You should have skipped the stuff about Super Bowls and just got straight to the punch line.
    BlueTalon
    * NET Curmudgeon *
     
    Posts: 7839
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:06 am
    Location: Eastern Washington


  • John63 wrote:
    diver110 wrote:I always thought that one of the main reasons the Patriots won so many Super Bowls is that they did not have to pay their QB full value. The last two SBs were won by teams with below market QBs. I don’t see it happening this year, but I wonder if the Hawks will move on from Wilson sooner than later.



    Not that simple. they were not just QBs who were not yet being paid the going rate, they were TOP QBs. Its easy to find a QB not being paid top rate. Its hard to find one that in reality is a TOP QB being paid not top rate. You literally need to get lucky enough to find a QB in the draft that ends up being a TOP QB or a TOP QB who has a way richer Wife. In the emantime while you are trying to do all that you are sub 500 and fans start leaving, merchandise sales go done etc etc. With a TOP QB even paid at the higher level you always have a chance and usually always in the hunt.


    The question is it worth it to let Rw and hope and pray knowing it could be 10+ years or keep him build around him and at least know you always have a shot.

    A bi din the hand is worth 2 in the bush lol


    Fair point. It is a bit of a conundrum. If you pay the QB full value, it is tough to put enough quality personnel around him, if you get them on a rookie deal, you can surround them with better players, but if the QB does not perform, you are still in a bind. Aside from Brady, if you look at the last number of years, the SB winning team had either a QB on a rookie deal or won it without a top QB (sometimes, e.g. Manning, they were once a top QB).
    diver110
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 320
    Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:06 pm


  • People like to pick on the QB, but really it seems like a super bowl winning team just needs to have value somewhere on their roster.

    Super Bowl 48 we had Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, and Richard Sherman all making less than one million a year. Three high caliber starters making that little of money. Doesn't matter what position it is, we just need to get back there. Build through the draft. Whatever we did back then, do it again.
    fenderbender123
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 7442
    Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:47 pm


  • fenderbender123 wrote:People like to pick on the QB, but really it seems like a super bowl winning team just needs to have value somewhere on their roster.

    Super Bowl 48 we had Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, and Richard Sherman all making less than one million a year. Three high caliber starters making that little of money. Doesn't matter what position it is, we just need to get back there. Build through the draft. Whatever we did back then, do it again.


    drafting all pros is easier said than done though
    misfit
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 555
    Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:40 pm



  • fenderbender123 wrote:People like to pick on the QB, but really it seems like a super bowl winning team just needs to have value somewhere on their roster.

    Super Bowl 48 we had Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, and Richard Sherman all making less than one million a year. Three high caliber starters making that little of money. Doesn't matter what position it is, we just need to get back there. Build through the draft. Whatever we did back then, do it again.


    Exactly my point. We had top players on a rookie contract. You have to go back to 2012 to find a SB winner paying the QB top dollar, but to be fair it was also true several years before that. It is probably no coincidence that in 2011 the NFL moved to new rookie contracts.
    diver110
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 320
    Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:06 pm


  • JGreen79 wrote:
    diver110 wrote:I always thought that one of the main reasons the Patriots won so many Super Bowls is that they did not have to pay their QB full value. The last two SBs were won by teams with below market QBs. I don’t see it happening this year, but I wonder if the Hawks will move on from Wilson sooner than later.


    Tom Brady had the 4th highest cap hit at QB last year at $28.35 mil.

    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/


    Yes, Brady's cap hit last year crapped all over the "can only win with fantastic rookie QB on cheap deal" idea. Dude's cap hit was 90% of the highest paid QBs.

    Also, Mahomes was still in a cheap year (technically the last year of his rookie deal) capwise, and the expensive old guy beat the cheap young guy.

    Then some of you will think "oh but its Brady", but somehow you don't go with "oh but its Brady" when you use his Super Bowl win years talking about him not being among the biggest cap hits.

    I'll tell you this: winning a Super Bowl with a crappy QB is much less probable than winning with one of the top 5 paid ones. And at least 15 of the QBs in the league aren't even that serviceable.
    bmorepunk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2734
    Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:56 pm


  • JGreen79 wrote:
    diver110 wrote:I always thought that one of the main reasons the Patriots won so many Super Bowls is that they did not have to pay their QB full value. The last two SBs were won by teams with below market QBs. I don’t see it happening this year, but I wonder if the Hawks will move on from Wilson sooner than later.


    Tom Brady had the 4th highest cap hit at QB last year at $28.35 mil.

    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/



    But you don't get it, see. With that additional $2.65M in cap savings over Russell Wilson, it allowed Tampa Bay to spend that money on a better pass rush, better O-Line, better weapons, and secondary. All for a measly 2 milly difference /s :shock:

    Watching people continue to blunt force this narrative is absolutely hilarious. The salary cap is a joke. You can move money around at any given point and create more room if needed.

    Russell Wilson's high cap number is why they drafted Malik McDowell, Germaine Ifedi, LJ Collier, and Rashaad Penny in the 1st Round. And traded two 1sts, and a 3rd for a box safety that doesn't fit the scheme. DON'T YOU GET IT! /s :D :D

    IF RUSSELL WILSON had taken a discount Seattle would've drafted better players, and not overspent so much on JAGs over the years. :D :D

    IF RUSSELL WILSON had taken a discount they could've spent that few extra million on another JAG. Clearly that is all they needed to put them over the top. This is all Russell Wilson's fault! /s
    Fade
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3140
    Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:26 am
    Location: Truth Ray


  • Tampa Bay had a cheap team with an expensive QB. It will be interesting to see how the next few Super Bowls play out with many of the old guard of QBs on the way out.
    sdog1981
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2879
    Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:54 am


  • What I find interesting is KC just redid Mahomes contract and went out and got 3 of the better oline man out there. We have redone Wilson contract 3 times since he has been on bigger contracts and only got 1 top o lineman. The rest was all used for the defense. The reality is if they want they can free up space to do what they want problem is most of the time when they do its on defense and what's worse despite that the defense has not been top o10 in yard or scoring since 2016. Not blaming the defense this is a PC problem.
    John63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4406
    Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 pm


  • sdog1981 wrote:Tampa Bay had a cheap team with an expensive QB. It will be interesting to see how the next few Super Bowls play out with many of the old guard of QBs on the way out.


    I think going forward you're going to see a lot of teams trying to build like the Bucs last year. Draft and build the core then pay for a QB. If you happen to draft one even better. That money will then go to the core to keep them together longer.

    It will be interesting to see how many QB's jump to the teams that have the other pieces as their rookie deals expire.
    JGreen79
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 913
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:26 pm
    Location: Newberg, Oregon


  • misfit wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:People like to pick on the QB, but really it seems like a super bowl winning team just needs to have value somewhere on their roster.

    Super Bowl 48 we had Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, and Richard Sherman all making less than one million a year. Three high caliber starters making that little of money. Doesn't matter what position it is, we just need to get back there. Build through the draft. Whatever we did back then, do it again.


    drafting all pros is easier said than done though


    True, but that's the reality of what it takes to be a championship caliber team. Draft really good players. They've shown they can do it once, so fans will expect to see it again.
    fenderbender123
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 7442
    Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:47 pm


  • fenderbender123 wrote:
    misfit wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:People like to pick on the QB, but really it seems like a super bowl winning team just needs to have value somewhere on their roster.

    Super Bowl 48 we had Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, and Richard Sherman all making less than one million a year. Three high caliber starters making that little of money. Doesn't matter what position it is, we just need to get back there. Build through the draft. Whatever we did back then, do it again.


    drafting all pros is easier said than done though


    True, but that's the reality of what it takes to be a championship caliber team. Draft really good players. They've shown they can do it once, so fans will expect to see it again.



    Okay lets look at that over the last say 3 years


    Year Player Pos CarAV
    2020 Jordyn Brooks LB 3
    2020 Darrell Taylor DE
    2020 Damien Lewis G 9
    2020 Colby Parkinson TE 0
    2020 DeeJay Dallas RB 2
    2020 Alton Robinson DE 2
    2020 Freddie Swain WR 2
    2020 Stephen Sullivan TE 0
    Year Player Pos CarAV
    2019 L.J. Collier DE 8
    2019 Marquise Blair S 2
    2019 D.K. Metcalf WR 21
    2019 Cody Barton LB 4
    2019 Gary Jennings Jr WR 0
    2019 Phil Haynes G 0
    2019 Ugo Amadi S 3
    2019 Ben Burr-Kirven LB 2
    2019 Travis Homer RB 3
    2019 Demarcus Christmas DT
    2019 John Ursua WR 0
    Year Player Pos CarAV
    2018 Rashaad Penny RB 7
    2018 Rasheem Green DT 6
    2018 Will Dissly TE 6
    2018 Shaquem Griffin OLB 3
    2018 Tre Flowers S 14
    2018 Michael Dickson P 8
    2018 Jamarco Jones T 5
    2018 Jacob Martin LB 5
    2018 Alex McGough QB


    Okay out of those 28 we had

    1 legit all pro type
    8 who have started 5 or more games in a season
    6 who are no longer with the hawks

    Not a great set of drafts at all. so history shows in the last 3 years we have not done well

    In fact 2016-2020 we have had only 2 pro bowl level or better draft picks out of 49.

    Interestingly
    from 2010-2012 we had 12 out of 29 pro bowl level
    From 2013-2015 we had 3 out of 28

    So what we have is the further away form PCs time as a College coach the worse our drafts have become.

    Does not bode well. I think they have gotten to the lets find some people that might have potential get a lot of picks and hope a few pan out or in other words thronging darts, or quantity of quality
    John63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4406
    Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 pm


  • sdog1981 wrote:Tampa Bay had a cheap team with an expensive QB. It will be interesting to see how the next few Super Bowls play out with many of the old guard of QBs on the way out.


    That is a good point. You can get away with an expensive QB if you can surround him with quality players on rookie contracts. What does not seem to work anymore is to build a SB team without a lot of quality players on rookie contracts. And because the QB, off the rookie contract, is likely the most expensive player, it you get the right guy (admittedly a big if), it is probably easier to build a SB team with a QB on the rookie contract than not. While Tampa Bay paid Brady well, it was not top dollar. And Tampa Bay's defense won the SB, in my view, not Brady.
    diver110
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 320
    Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:06 pm




It is currently Sat May 08, 2021 6:53 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ SEATTLE SEAHAWKS FOOTBALL ]




Information
  • Who is online