Looks like Pete Ball is back on the Menu Boys

[BASF]

Every single anti-Pete poster for the past five years: "My biggest problem with Pete is he doesn't change his game plan for specific opponents"

Carroll changes the game plan for an opponent whose front seven is rushing really well with the linebackers in the passing lanes that Smith has been using for the past few weeks, every anti-Pete poster: "Not like that!"

Some people will not be happy until Pete Carroll is in the ground. It is amazing that being Russell Wilson marks have colored their lives so much.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Meh, they are 3-3. On to LA, should be a great battle. And I suspect it will feel like a Hawks home game in many ways. There will be a TON of Hawks fans making that trip imo.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

In Shane Waldron's system they call 2 Plays in the huddle, a run, and a pass. Light box you run, stacked box, you throw.

They had been doing this and people were freaking out because the Seahawks were throwing it more than they were running it to start the season, but it's smart. Leading to the #1 DVOA Offense in the league.

In the Cardinals game they went away from that. Repeatedly running into loaded boxes on 1st down, and having Geno hold the ball looking for the big play down the field. Sound familiar?

Pete Ball is back!

Fade 2015-2021: "Pete's ruining Russell, we need a new coach who knows how to get the best out of Wilson."

Fade September 2022: "Pete can't coach defense anymore, he needs to go."

Fade October 2022: "Defense played well, but offense didn't do well for the first time all year, we're regressing back to Peteball."

Never in my time here have I seen a forum poster move the goalposts more often to fit his incorrect narrative. But damn it Fade, you did it!!

But once again, you are incorrect. The Hawks are top 10 in the league for early down pass frequency.




Did Pete and Waldron manage this game differently because the defense was holding the Cards down? Yep, more conservative for sure, they didn't need to score 45 pts to win yesterday, and Pete and Waldron managed the game appropriately to that end.

 

[keasley45]

This is... not true. https://charts-cdn-a.nextgenstats.n...art_SMI269700_2022-REG-all_1665502668995.jpeg

Geno's passer rating is average to above average on every depth and distance past the line of scrimmage.



I'll say this: I do have the advantage of not having to care about building chemistry, testing a rookie RB, etc., etc. I also don't get to see the backup RG and rookie RB in practice to see if they are having trouble in the passing game or not.

All I get to watch is the game and see how different decisions work out and based on that, I don't buy the idea that the Seahawks needed to run more and the idea that we need to run more to control is simply not true for this team this year.

Prior to the last couple of weeks, this team's average time for drive length has actually been in the top 5. We are now firmly middle of the pack with an average drive length of 2:47, down an additional 5 seconds from where we were last week. Our average drive length this game? 2:26.

It gets worse when you look at the splits between drives that started with a pass vs. a run. On pass first drives, our average was 2:36, when we started with a run first it was 2:17.

We had 6 pass first drives and 6 run first drives. We scored on 4 out of the 6 pass first drives (including our only touchdown). We only scored once when we opened the drive with a run.

Trying to keep our defense off the field by running the ball more had the opposite effect.

I'm quite happy we won and it's good to see our team win in a completely different way than was expected. That bodes well not just for this year, but future seasons. I will, however, not be pleased if the play calling going forward looks more like this game and less like the previous three.

Love the stats. Cant argue them. But the has nothing to do with the intent. Our running game SHOULD net a better time of possession than a pass first approach. That's a style of play that wins games in the post season - being able to rely on a running game that secures possession and control of the game. The fact that we arent there yet and that our passing game has been more effective doesnt disprove the thinking that we need to run better to control the clock. In fact, the fact that its upside down relative to our passing game just proves that we need to sharpen our ground game. Yes, Penny had a good game or two, and yes Walker had some solid big play runs. But we still arent running the ball with chain moving regularity and that takes some time to develop (really missing Carson here). I'm glad they took the route they did with the game yesterday because they'll get better and build from here. Walker is electric, but the dancing and stopping in the backfield is a habit he'll have to break moving forward. We had 60 minutes of valuable experience yesterday grinding out a game on the ground against a team that was waiting for us to run. Its games like that - when we've needed to run and couldn't or didnt, that did us in in the playoffs year after year. Perfectly fine seeing our guys square up and learn to go toe to toe and get to the point where we can hopefully one day impose our will on a defense. When we have running game that can pick up yards in tough, stacked conditions and a passing game that can do what Geno has shown it can, we will be a tough out.

Throwing up big stat, big point games through the air is great, but we've lost more than we've won that way. We need to have a complete offense.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It's still pretty smokey here in Seattle. Thanks a lot Pete

 

[bigskydoc]

. The fact that we arent there yet and that our passing game has been more effective doesnt disprove the thinking that we need to run better to control the clock. In fact, the fact that its upside down relative to our passing game just proves that we need to sharpen our ground game.

Agree with this line of thinking. Coming into the season, it seemed that our offensive line was more likely to have success in the passing game than the running game, and there were questions about how we would be able to run.

I love the idea of putting a young line into a position to be successful, and gel as a unit, for the first quarter of the year, before asking them to start developing the weaker part of their game. No way of knowing if this was planned out or not, but if so, it was a great move.

Lean on the experienced part of your offense (receivers) while bringing along the younguns. Revert to what has made you succesful this year, when you are in danger of falling behind, but stick with the developmental game plan when the game is in play or well in hand.

 

[Fade]

Fade 2015-2021: "Pete's ruining Russell, we need a new coach who knows how to get the best out of Wilson."

Fade September 2022: "Pete can't coach defense anymore, he needs to go."

Fade October 2022: "Defense played well, but offense didn't do well for the first time all year, we're regressing back to Peteball."

Never in my time here have I seen a forum poster move the goalposts more often to fit his incorrect narrative. But damn it Fade, you did it!!

But once again, you are incorrect. The Hawks are top 10 in the league for early down pass frequency.

View attachment 55169


Did Pete and Waldron manage this game differently because the defense was holding the Cards down? Yep, more conservative for sure, they didn't need to score 45 pts to win yesterday, and Pete and Waldron managed the game appropriately to that end.

I praised the passing on early downs against stacked boxes to start the season. They went away from that in this specific game, that is the problem.

Running into loaded boxes, having Geno hold the ball and take sacks is not good.

I know everyone is looking at the results and outcome and feeling good off that alone. I'm looking at the process
and a reversion back to this style.

The defense isn't fixed either, that performance was a bigger indictment in the Cardinals offense.

The NFC stinks as a whole, and the WEST might be the worst division, so that'll help a little more in the win column. I had 'em at 5 wins before the season. Quality of opponent might get them to 7 wins. I don't see that as something to celebrate.

There is no goalpost moving I've been pointing out these same issues for years and they still remain, so I will continue to point them out. Celebrating mediocrity is odd.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Obsessing on hating everything Pete and/or Seahawks is odd.

So, you're saying people shouldn't be happy when they win games. Miserable much?

 

[FrodosFinger]

You should listen to the Richard Sherman podcast on our rookie draft class and then go cry in a corner Fade.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I praised the passing on early downs against stacked boxes to start the season. They went away from that in this specific game, that is the problem.

Running into loaded boxes, having Geno hold the ball and take sacks is not good.

I know everyone is looking at the results and outcome and feeling good off that alone. I'm looking at the process
and a reversion back to this style.

The defense isn't fixed either, that performance was a bigger indictment in the Cardinals offense.

The NFC stinks as a whole, and the WEST might be the worst division, so that'll help a little more in the win column. I had 'em at 5 wins before the season. Quality of opponent might get them to 7 wins. I don't see that as something to celebrate.

There is no goalpost moving I've been pointing out these same issues for years and they still remain, so I will continue to point them out. Celebrating mediocrity is odd.

But that's my point, everything you harp on each season turns out to be factually incorrect, as my stat shows. The Hawk's are #8 in early passing downs this year. Why? Because they finally have QB who stays on script and takes advantage of his strengths, his TE and WR corp, and can actually execute. To my surprise, I'll admit.

We get it dude, you hate Pete. You don't have to keep burning calories typing out elaborate 1,000 character posts trying to pigeonhole this narrative into existence.

Last week you started multiple threads blaming Pete for the bad defense. First game the defense plays well you shift your hate to the offense. You don't think we pay attention to this?

 

[Fade]

This game was sad for me to see. I was hopeful for our offense and I've liked all of the things I've seen from the previous games. What I'm wondering is where did it go? It's like we had Schottenheimer back there calling the plays against the Cowboys in the playoffs. We ran just for the sake of running. We tried forcing the run when it clearly was not there.

We consistently put Geno Smith in bad 3rd and long situations which allowed the defense to pin their ears back. We also ran the same sort of route concepts we ran under Russell Wilson. A lot of long developing pass plays predicated on the deep pass. I feel like this sort of offense negates Geno Smith's strengths as a passer.

Geno Smith from what I've seen is a QB that really thrives off of establishing a rhythm. He lives and dies with the short and intermediate timing passes, and while he can throw deep -- his best asset is how he is able to methodically march the football down the field.

In our previous game we've used Geno Smith to set up the running game in typical west coast offense fashion. We still could run the ball, but we were smarter about it. Penny hardly ever ran into loaded boxes, and that was the case in the second half of last year as well. I don't like to see that the offense is falling back into some old habits/tendencies.

We won this game but this sort of offense will cost the Seahawks if we keep using it. The "I'm going to do regardless of what you're showing me" mentality needs to die. Our biggest runs came when we varied what we were doing. The runs up the middle into stacked boxes did nothing but put our offense into bad third down situations.

Our offense today put Geno Smith into a bad situations consistently and he was never able to get into a rhythm due to our playcalling.

Yes, the early season playcalling wasn't about Geno being different than Russ.

But Pete knowing he had two rookie tackles and a starting QB who hadn't started a whole season in nearly a decade.

As these guys proved themselves the play calling is creeping back to Pete Ball.

Their 3 down conversion % has plummeted the last two weeks. Geno is holding the ball longer and is getting killed.

Everyone celebrates this, while I shake my head.

 

[LeveeBreak]

I praised the passing on early downs against stacked boxes to start the season. They went away from that in this specific game, that is the problem.

Running into loaded boxes, having Geno hold the ball and take sacks is not good.

I know everyone is looking at the results and outcome and feeling good off that alone. I'm looking at the process
and a reversion back to this style.

The defense isn't fixed either, that performance was a bigger indictment in the Cardinals offense.

The NFC stinks as a whole, and the WEST might be the worst division, so that'll help a little more in the win column. I had 'em at 5 wins before the season. Quality of opponent might get them to 7 wins. I don't see that as something to celebrate.

There is no goalpost moving I've been pointing out these same issues for years and they still remain, so I will continue to point them out. Celebrating mediocrity is odd.

Still do not get the reference to process. Process is about repeatability and managing variables. In football, variables change game to game and play to play. The environment dictates that the process must change constantly to achieve desired results, which is winning each game for a chance to win a superbowl. Just a head scratcher to me that the priority is something other than that.

 

[Fade]

But that's my point, everything you harp on each season turns out to be factually incorrect, as my stat shows. The Hawk's are #8 in early passing downs this year. Why? Because they finally have QB who stays on script and takes advantage of his strengths, his TE and WR corp, and can actually execute. To my surprise, I'll admit.

We get it dude, you hate Pete. You don't have to keep burning calories typing out elaborate 1,000 character posts trying to pigeonhole this narrative into existence.

Last week you started multiple threads blaming Pete for the bad defense. First game the defense plays well you shift your hate to the offense. You don't think we pay attention to this?

Because a new old problem has reared its ugly head. Believe me, if Pete Ball was being played early in the year, I'd have posted about it.

Again, you're posting a season stat that in no way reflects how they played in this specific game.

 

[Fade]

Still do not get the reference to process. Process is about repeatability and managing variables. In football, variables change game to game and play to play. The environment dictates that the process must change constantly to achieve desired results, which is winning each game for a chance to win a superbowl. Just a head scratcher to me that the priority is something other than that.

The Seahawks performance on defense is not repeatable. Unless they get to play a disinterested Kyler, and a backup kicker every week.

Having your QB get killed, and running into loaded boxes is not sustainable either.

 

[sutz]

You keep throwing "Pete ball" out there like he's some kind of 1970's Cornhusker running student body right, student body left 3 out of 4 plays. I don't see it. I'm seeing a movement to a 21st Century balanced attack that attempts to attack the opponent's weaknesses and emphasize our strengths. I've been enjoying the variety of the playcalling post Wilson.

 

[Fade]

The number of first down runs right up into a stacked box was very frustrating today. It was extremely uninspired. I can see a couple of reasons they might have done it, though I wouldn't be happy with either.

1) They saw their defense was playing well and went conservative. This is the worse of the two reasons. Geno has been very safe with the ball, his drives have been extremely efficient and take time off the clock. There is no reason to go ultra-conservative run happy to try and control clock or protect the ball. We do that just fine with the ball in Geno's hands.

2) They saw the Cards were dialing up the extra rusher or two on basically every play and thought the run game was a way to counteract that. This isn't as bad as the other reason, but it's still concerning because it failed so consistently throughout the game that we should have been able to stop with that plan by halftime at the latest.


Overall, though, we won the game so it's hard to get too worked up about it. Just hope to see us go back to what had been working next week.

It's # 1. Pete wants to play this style every week if he can.

 

[Fade]

You keep throwing "Pete ball" out there like he's some kind of 1970's Cornhusker running student body right, student body left 3 out of 4 plays. I don't see it. I'm seeing a movement to a 21st Century balanced attack that attempts to attack the opponent's weaknesses and emphasize our strengths. I've been enjoying the variety of the playcalling post Wilson.

Waldron ball = pre snap motion, outside zone, with boot action off of it. Run against light boxes, throw against stacked boxes. I've enjoyed that.

I don't enjoy rigid up the gut into loaded boxes, have the QB hold the ball and get killed.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

I'm legit not seeing all the running into loaded box that Fade is talking about. He's acting like Cardinals were just daring us to throw and I just don't see it.

Here's all the runs from Ken Walker. Maybe somebody can point out the timestamps of where Walker is running into a loaded box and I can learn something here. I hope he's not talking about when Seahawks are in jumbo 3 TEs or the saftey is coming up into the zone right before the snap. That's not an overloaded box that Pete is forcing a run in an obvious pass situation.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Because a new old problem has reared its ugly head. Believe me, if Pete Ball was being played early in the year, I'd have posted about it.

Again, you're posting a season stat that in no way reflects how they played in this specific game.

But it's not true.

Out of our first 10 possessions yesterday, SEVEN of them were pass first, and SIX of those were pass, pass.

You've got to get into late 4th quarter when we were protecting the lead and trying to run out the clock before you even get to anything that resembled "Pete ball" with run, run into loaded boxes.

7/10 pass first drives. The End. Now move on to your next I hate Pete incorrect hot take.

 

[Mizak]

You wanna see Pete Ball to perfection? Look at the New York Giants. TOP, running the ball, win games by one score, hence they are 5-1.