Looks like Pete Ball is back on the Menu Boys

[AgentDib]

Pete calls the plays, you can say the OC does but Pete approves the play or the OC is gone.

Pete is ultimately responsible, but it's weird to claim that means he calls the plays. Would you argue the CEO of McDonalds works the drink machine for you? Does Jay Inslee fill the potholes in front of your house? Executives manage personnel and it's the personnel who are doing the tasks. Pete approving of the way Waldron is calling the game doesn't mean Pete is calling the game.

Some head coaches do call plays on one side of the ball. One tip off is that they will always have a play sheet in front of them. If there's no play sheet then they aren't calling plays, no exceptions.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

What are you talking about? I'm sorry, but this is just painting the barn blue for the sh!ts of it.

Pete came in here and built a team that SHOULD have won 5 games with an aging Hass and a bunch of no names and has beens on the roster and won 7 games behind the unherladed RB nobody thought was worthwhile. And then he took that 7 win team and that RB and beat the crap out of the Superbowl favorite Saints that year.

Then he completely tore apart the roster and with a bunch of young bucks and a nobody at qb, was still competitive. 7 wins when any other coach could have managed again, maybe 5.


THEN... he drafted Russell Wilson and assembled one of the best defenses in the history of the league and set the NFL on its ear, literally necessitating rule changes and fundamentally changing the way teams approach practice and competing across the league.

He took us to two Superbowls and then unfortunately allowed the entire team to be handcuffed by his loyalty to one RW3.

Peteball was a result of Russ and as is now OBVIOUSLY apparent, so were the overly simple game plans and needing to compensate for having almost no traditional, timing based passing offense with a ground and pound run game.

To compare him to AL Davis, is as misplaced a comp as I can think of. Davis didn't coach. He only had a basic philosophy he subscribed to, not a deep and nuanced way of coaching, teaching, developing talent, and building team chemistry.

You can hate him all you want and try to find reasons to disparage every successful thing he's done. Fact is he built a contender from zero. He then created a beast of a team that should have won 2 titles. And he then unfortunately squandered a legacy with them for the admiration he had for his QB. But even in that failing, he managed to take a QB who couldn't throw short or to the middle of the field, couldn't read defenses, and was never good at passing for 3rd downs through the air and kept us competitive... scratch that... he made us the second most winning franchise in the league over a 10 year span and only suffered a losing season last year because his QB, Russell Wilson went full Walter Kurtz on him and had to be taken out.

He's not without flaw. But the notion that he's just a coach who can't help himself above 500 is just flatly ignoring history and taking those elements of it that match your narrative and sanitizing them of any context.

It's looking more and more like Pete was never the problem but rather the solution all along. If Pete still had the new-to-the-league Russell who listened and did what he was told, he could still be a great quarterback even with all of his limitations. Russell needs a boss more so now than ever. Unfortunately for him and the Broncos he somehow believes he is the boss.

Pete made Russell into a potential HOFer. Russell Wilson has single-handedly tossed his future gold jacket in the trash. At this point Russell needs Pete or at least a coach like Pete who can develop a team to support his skill set. If Russell continues to believe that he is a better Tom Brady, the ending to this story is not likely to turn out well.

I am looking forward to the ending of Pete Carroll's story. Seahawks football is fun again.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

Pete is ultimately responsible, but it's weird to claim that means he calls the plays. Would you argue the CEO of McDonalds works the drink machine for you? Does Jay Inslee fill the potholes in front of your house? Executives manage personnel and it's the personnel who are doing the tasks. Pete approving of the way Waldron is calling the game doesn't mean Pete is calling the game.

Some head coaches do call plays on one side of the ball. One tip off is that they will always have a play sheet in front of them. If there's no play sheet then they aren't calling plays, no exceptions.

This is a simple concept but for some people here who have a thought and believe it to be true without considering the evidence beyond what is happening between their ears.

 

[seatownlowdown]

Russell Wilson has single-handedly tossed his future gold jacket in the trash.

it was a business decision. he chose his brand and money over the HOF, respect from peers, and multiple rings

... and so if wilson wants to revive his career, broncos will need a top coach than can manage him and the game better... somebody like... a pete carroll.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

it was a business decision. he chose his brand and money over the HOF, respect from peers, and multiple rings

... and so if wilson wants to revive his career, broncos will need a top coach than can manage him and the game better... somebody like... a pete carroll.

Russell Wilson is Russell's biggest enemy. Knowing the hubris of most football coaches, who will want Russell to do things their way not his way.

Beyond Pete what coach is willing to hand over decision making to the QB?

Russell need to have a come to Jesus moment with himself - I believe he can, but the question is will he?

 

[Smellyman]

The Broncos D has given up 6 TDs all year (2 TDs to Geno) and they are 2-4 and Russell leads the worst scoring offense in the league.

LOL

 

[seatownlowdown]

Russell Wilson is Russell's biggest enemy. Knowing the hubris of most football coaches, who will want Russell to do things their way not his way.

Beyond Pete what coach is willing to hand over decision making to the QB?

Russell need to have a come to Jesus moment with himself - I believe he can, but the question is will he?

reminds me of a meme i made a few weeks ago

 

[HawkStrong]

The Broncos D has given up 6 TDs all year (2 TDs to Geno) and they are 2-4 and Russell leads the worst scoring offense in the league.

LOL

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Pete calls the plays, you can say the OC does but Pete approves the play or the OC is gone.

That's not how football works.

Coaches meet during the week and install the gameplan for the game on Sunday. They go over how to attack, formations that might work, schemes, fits, all of it. Then they script out the first 2-3 series.

Pete is present with his coaches and QB's for those meetings. That's it. He doesn't call offensive playcalls in real time, that's ludicrous to think that.

Now does he make situational in-game calls? Absolutely. Go for it, punt, end of half or game calls. But even those go through Waldron.

 

[chrispy]

What are you talking about? I'm sorry, but this is just painting the barn blue for the sh!ts of it.

Pete came in here and built a team that SHOULD have won 5 games with an aging Hass and a bunch of no names and has beens on the roster and won 7 games behind the unherladed RB nobody thought was worthwhile. And then he took that 7 win team and that RB and beat the crap out of the Superbowl favorite Saints that year.

Then he completely tore apart the roster and with a bunch of young bucks and a nobody at qb, was still competitive. 7 wins when any other coach could have managed again, maybe 5.


THEN... he drafted Russell Wilson and assembled one of the best defenses in the history of the league and set the NFL on its ear, literally necessitating rule changes and fundamentally changing the way teams approach practice and competing across the league.

He took us to two Superbowls and then unfortunately allowed the entire team to be handcuffed by his loyalty to one RW3.

Peteball was a result of Russ and as is now OBVIOUSLY apparent, so were the overly simple game plans and needing to compensate for having almost no traditional, timing based passing offense with a ground and pound run game.

To compare him to AL Davis, is as misplaced a comp as I can think of. Davis didn't coach. He only had a basic philosophy he subscribed to, not a deep and nuanced way of coaching, teaching, developing talent, and building team chemistry.

You can hate him all you want and try to find reasons to disparage every successful thing he's done. Fact is he built a contender from zero. He then created a beast of a team that should have won 2 titles. And he then unfortunately squandered a legacy with them for the admiration he had for his QB. But even in that failing, he managed to take a QB who couldn't throw short or to the middle of the field, couldn't read defenses, and was never good at passing for 3rd downs through the air and kept us competitive... scratch that... he made us the second most winning franchise in the league over a 10 year span and only suffered a losing season last year because his QB, Russell Wilson went full Walter Kurtz on him and had to be taken out.

He's not without flaw. But the notion that he's just a coach who can't help himself above 500 is just flatly ignoring history and taking those elements of it that match your narrative and sanitizing them of any context.

I feel like I hear a mic hitting the floor....

 

[Spohawks]

That's not how football works.

Coaches meet during the week and install the gameplan for the game on Sunday. They go over how to attack, formations that might work, schemes, fits, all of it. Then they script out the first 2-3 series.

Pete is present with his coaches and QB's for those meetings. That's it. He doesn't call offensive playcalls in real time, that's ludicrous to think that.

Now does he make situational in-game calls? Absolutely. Go for it, punt, end of half or game calls. But even those go through Waldron.

And can I ask how you know this? Are you in the room while this is happening? Lets be honest, if you are not in the room...you have no idea what is being said.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Ya'll think that Wilson the Broncos would trade Lock for Wilson? I think he'd make a great backup for Geno.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

And can I ask how you know this? Are you in the room while this is happening? Lets be honest, if you are not in the room...you have no idea what is being said.

We know Pete doesn't call the plays during the game because he's been clear that his coordinators call the game. What exactly are you arguing?

 

[Donn2390]

I praised the passing on early downs against stacked boxes to start the season. They went away from that in this specific game, that is the problem.

Running into loaded boxes, having Geno hold the ball and take sacks is not good.

I know everyone is looking at the results and outcome and feeling good off that alone. I'm looking at the process
and a reversion back to this style.

The defense isn't fixed either, that performance was a bigger indictment in the Cardinals offense.

The NFC stinks as a whole, and the WEST might be the worst division, so that'll help a little more in the win column. I had 'em at 5 wins before the season. Quality of opponent might get them to 7 wins. I don't see that as something to celebrate.

There is no goalpost moving I've been pointing out these same issues for years and they still remain, so I will continue to point them out. Celebrating mediocrity is odd.

The fact is that you know a heck of a lot more than the coaches do, and until they start coaching the way you want them to, you will continue to criticize.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

And can I ask how you know this? Are you in the room while this is happening? Lets be honest, if you are not in the room...you have no idea what is being said.

Anyone who even casually follows football knows the mechanics of how playcalling happens, on both sides of the ball.

There are head coaches that call all the plays, like McVay. But Pete isn't one of them.

Doesn't mean he's not HEAVILY involved in the process and running the schemes he wants run. But no, he's not standing on the sidelines calling all the plays in real time.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Anyone who even casually follows football knows the mechanics of how playcalling happens, on both sides of the ball.

There are head coaches that call all the plays, like McVay. But Pete isn't one of them.

Doesn't mean he's not HEAVILY involved in the process and running the schemes he wants run. But no, he's not standing on the sidelines calling all the plays in real time.

There are stories of him overriding and meddling with Schottenheimer. He also didn't let Schottenheimer bring his own playbook, they used Carroll's. There is some precedent for Pete getting involved in offensive play calling.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There are stories of him overriding and meddling with Schottenheimer. He also didn't let Schottenheimer bring his own playbook, they used Carroll's. There is some precedent for Pete getting involved in offensive play calling.

I said Pete gets involved. But unless I misinterpreted Spohawk's comment above, he sounds like he thinks Pete calls most offensive plays, or all.

Btw, ALL coaches meddle in playcalling when things aren't going well. It's not just Pete.

And from what we're seeing in Denver and Geno's resurgence here? Err, I think it's time to put the reason as to why we burned through four O-Coordinators in six years on Pete to rest.

 

[FrodosFinger]

Pete doesn’t call the plays but he’s involved schematically. The offense does a great job on a week by week basis game planning and play scheduling. Geno has input, the receivers have input and with the running game we’ve been a very balanced team offensively. Shane brought in a much needed infusion of McVay’s playbook and it’s slowly but surely paying dividends. Pete Carroll has been doing this gig for a long time and his ability to evolve and bring in new talent is a huge reason for his longevity.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I said Pete gets involved. But unless I misinterpreted Spohawk's comment above, he sounds like he thinks Pete calls most offensive plays, or all.

Btw, ALL coaches meddle in playcalling when things aren't going well. It's not just Pete.

And from what we're seeing in Denver and Geno's resurgence here? Err, I think it's time to put the reason as to why we burned through four O-Coordinators in six years on Pete to rest.

True, but I also saw a lot of that same stuff make a reappearance in the Cardinals game. Specifically in how the running game was structured. A lot of those same long developing plays also seemed to crop up again. Pete definitely likes a certain brand of football.

This game looked distinctly different from the last few games in how we called it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

True, but I also saw a lot of that same stuff make a reappearance in the Cardinals game. Specifically in how the running game was structured. A lot of those same long developing plays also seemed to crop up again. Pete definitely likes a certain brand of football.

This game looked distinctly different from the last few games in how we called it.

Probably had more to do with how the game was going as well as division opponents, especially ones with really good D-lines and CB's are usually tougher to score on because they know our playbook and tendencies.

But nah, I'm over the "Pete Ball" narrative. That shit's over, and it moved to Denver. Hawks are in the top 10 half of the league in just about every offensive statistic, #8 in scoring.