49ers still look like a shambles

[chris98251]

I would think there is a lot of player conversation going on, 49ers are now the new Raiders, a place player really don't want to go.

 

[RichNhansom]

I enjoy piling on the Niners as much as any other Hawk fan, but as I said a few days ago.. the Niners not spending their money isn't necessarily a bad thing. This FA class is one of the weakest of the last 10 years.. when you start spending recklessly just to spend the money, you set your franchise up for an even longer rebuilding period.

Face it.. there were never FA's the Niners could overpay for that would take them from 4 wins to contending for the division or a wild card. I think what SF is doing this offseason by letting the market settle down is actually a smart move.

I must agree with your thought process. While some say my niners are losing the free agency Super Bowl (cough cough some hawk fans) I think waiting is smart. But get players that will help is highly important. So hopefully they start making moves that make sense.

Well go read some of the webzone because (cough cough) the majority over there are pissed that the FO is sitting on it's hands.

Not spending in FA is not necessarily a bad thing but not resigning your own players when they are in area's of need like Boone is, will get some disgruntled feelings from the fan base. Part of that problem is also the pattern over the last few years as the fan base has watched a lot of players leave in FA and not appear to be replaced. This is also true of the players who retired or have been traded away on a team that is a shell of itself from just a few years ago.

Independently you can explain away each move but when you look at the overall you start to question losing guys like Iupati, Brown, Culliver and your H-back from a few years ago who's name escapes me right now. Many of your own are asking the question of is the FO just being cheap or are they just to stupid to understand what is going on. It doesn't help when you biggest FA signing so far is Ray Ray Armstrong.

I can understand the frustration. You have a new coaching staff that everyone will be looking to prove something and your last few drafts have not been stellar so expecting Kelly and crew to take pretty much the same team that failed miserably last year, into next season should cause some reason for concern. There is a reason your fan base has been bragging about having 60 mill in cap space.

It's definitely interesting that is for sure.

 

[Popeyejones]

The 9ers did extend their only FA this year who is worth a damn, Ian Williams. He's 26 and graded out as one of the best NTs in the NFL this year, and IIRC was on that same trajectory the year before until Sweazy sent him to IR on a cut block.

Boone, for all his name recognition, has been a below average starter for the past two years according to the metric sites. You saw that on the field too.

Trying to "win" free agency is always dumb, but it's particularly dumb for a team as untalented as the 9ers.

As for their cap room and all the people they've let go, I think it's very easy to criticize this in hindsight, but about 30 million of their 59 million was earmarked to go to unexpected retirements (Bam Davis and Willis) and Aldon Smith drinking himself out of the league (figure 8 APY-ish that they had earmarked for each Davis and Willis, and 14 APY or so for Smith).

In their three year projections from last off-season I think they were also earmarking Kaepernick making 14-19 APY over the next three years.

So, that everything has fallen apart and dramatically so is understandably hilarious, but it's gilding the lily to claim that it's more than that, IMO.

 

[hawknation2016]

The Whiners are dog crap.

 

[RichNhansom]

The 9ers did extend their only FA this year who is worth a damn, Ian Williams. He's 26 and graded out as one of the best NTs in the NFL this year, and IIRC was on that same trajectory the year before until Sweazy sent him to IR on a cut block.

Boone, for all his name recognition, has been a below average starter for the past two years according to the metric sites. You saw that on the field too.

Trying to "win" free agency is always dumb, but it's particularly dumb for a team as untalented as the 9ers.

As for their cap room and all the people they've let go, I think it's very easy to criticize this in hindsight, but about 30 million of their 59 million was earmarked to go to unexpected retirements (Bam Davis and Willis) and Aldon Smith drinking himself out of the league (figure 8 APY-ish that they had earmarked for each Davis and Willis, and 14 APY or so for Smith).

In their three year projections from last off-season I think they were also earmarking Kaepernick making 14-19 APY over the next three years.

So, that everything has fallen apart and dramatically so is understandably hilarious, but it's gilding the lily to claim that it's more than that, IMO.

Hasn't Ian Williams spent more time injured than healthy? And wasn't Boone your starting LG last year and possibly your only player capable of playing both gaurd and tackle?

Not trying to trash you but It's possible you are down playing Boone and over selling Williams and that also fits your gilding the lilly doesn't it?

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^
Yeah, Williams has some injury history, but the big one was Sweezy sending him to IR on a cut block. I think he has also missed time before that with an arm or shoulder thing, but would have to look it up.

If you want to criticize the Williams signing though I think the best way to do it would be to say that 5.5 APY is too much for a 2 down lineman, but that doesn't really help if your major harangue is how cheap the 9ers are.

Like everyone else I think it's a good re-sign for them.

That he was their most talented FA you don't have to believe me about, though. You can look on PFF and on basically any FA ranking site, for which he'll be listed as their top FA on the FA list.

As for Boone, here's what I had to say about him in the Boone thread:

I think this a great signing for the Vikings.

Boone didn't get drafted not because he was untalented, but because he was out of shape and an alcoholic. He's been in recovery for five years now though and I don't think that's something anyone has to worry about.

Boone is making less than some might guess because while he was very good for two years, he's been a below average player for the last two years.

His value is that he can double as a swing tackle if one of the Vikes tackles goes down with injury, and tackle might even be his more natural position.

His other problem is that although he seems like a fun person to be around, he's kind of a loose cannon. I'm sure him going on HBO and saying he was glad Harbaugh was gone because Harbaugh demanded too much effort from his players and needed to just relax didn't sit well with a lot of GMs.

I like him, in the past I've liked him as a player, but I'm also not even remotely surprised the 49ers didn't resign him.

I think he makes sense on the Vikings though, and it will be a really great deal if they're planning on kicking him out to tackle a la the Raiders and Osmele.

 

[Jville]

According to Spotrac, they have $61m to spend. That's second only to Jacksonville.

And they're just sat there -- not doing anything to reshape that ramshackle roster.

Not any more ........................................

According to Over-The-Cap, the 49ers are now #1 in cap space. And at the moment, dead last in active cap spending. Which, if looked at while standing on ones head, could be viewed as at the top of the list .... making them #1 in that category as well.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Chip Kelly will Bobby Petrino this lot in a few months.

 

[Overseasfan]

I find it sad. Just two years ago they were a premier contender and now they are the biggest dumpsterfire next to Cleveland.

 

[Marvin49]

According to Spotrac, they have $61m to spend. That's second only to Jacksonville.

And they're just sat there -- not doing anything to reshape that ramshackle roster.

Not any more ........................................

According to Over-The-Cap, the 49ers are now #1 in cap space. And at the moment, dead last in active cap spending. Which, if looked at while standing on ones head, could be viewed as at the top of the list .... making them #1 in that category as well.

....and possibly about to clear another 8 mil or so with a Kap trade. I have no idea right now how they are going to get up to the salary floor at this point.

 

[hawknation2016]

I find it sad. Just two years ago they were a premier contender and now they are the biggest dumpsterfire next to Cleveland.

The Whiners are even shittier than Cleveland. There is good reason why Hue Jackson chose to go to Cleveland over Santa Clara. They have the most unlikeable owner, general manager, and head coach in the league. And now their starting QB reportedly would rather play in Cleveland than stay in Santa Clara. Meanwhile, they continue to whiff on corners and linemen in free agency. That is as bad a shitfire as there is in the NFL today.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

According to Spotrac, they have $61m to spend. That's second only to Jacksonville.

And they're just sat there -- not doing anything to reshape that ramshackle roster.

The good teams can afford to play it cool in free agency. Others have to be proactive. That doesn't mean trying to outbid the Giants for Olivier Vernon. But you are allowed to, you know, actually sign players.

Chip Kelly's reputation an issue? Or just the overall malaise of the franchise?

2016 might be even worse than 2015 for them.

Dude, the West from Mexico to Canada from the Rockies was under Spanish control. Seriously, what is your issue against Spain? The fact that everything they have beyond the beer is flat out better than maybe the television IF you you have the Sky Network? I'm curious so tell me.

Pray tell you don't have a weird issue with San Francisco the place I was born because of it's Spanish name? Pretty much like the entire state of California. By the by the 49ers won't be chopped liver. I hate what Chip Kelly is trying to introduce but he isn't stupid. He's dangerous just like Bruce Arians. The saving grace is the fact he is in the wrong division to be successful as long as the other three coaches are there. He really should have stayed East or South or went to the AFC but that's his problem.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

 

[Popeyejones]

....and possibly about to clear another 8 mil or so with a Kap trade. I have no idea right now how they are going to get up to the salary floor at this point.

The salary floor isn't a one year thing.

NFL teams across the four seasons from 2013-2016 had to spend an average of 89% of the total cap figure.

They have to do the same thing across the four years from 2017-2020.

The 9ers are already over the 89% cap floor. The Raiders and Jaguars were the only teams that weren't, whch is why they they're the two teams that made huge FA signing that dumped all the money into 2016.

If you think the 49ers are a few years off from competing, rolling over cap money into next year and the year after that in a weird way kind of makes sense for them, because of the economics of the NFL.

Basically, what the Raiders are doing right now is pretty smart.

They were one of the most pitiful franchises in the NFL, slowly built their core through the draft, and then splurged on the FA market to fill out around their core. By dumping all of that money into the last year of the four year window they can splurge like this while also not hampering their cap in the future too badly if the signings don't pan out.

Basically, if you think the 9ers are really crappy team right now and are at best two to three years away from even thinking about competing what they're doing make sense.

If you think the 9ers are a better team than their record what they're doing doesn't make as much sense.

 

[Marvin49]

....and possibly about to clear another 8 mil or so with a Kap trade. I have no idea right now how they are going to get up to the salary floor at this point.

The salary floor isn't a one year thing.

NFL teams across the four seasons from 2013-2016 had to spend an average of 89% of the total cap figure.

They have to do the same thing across the four years from 2017-2020.

The 9ers are already over the 89% cap floor. The Raiders and Jaguars were the only teams that weren't, whch is why they they're the two teams that made huge FA signing that dumped all the money into 2016.

If you think the 49ers are a few years off from competing, rolling over cap money into next year and the year after that in a weird way kind of makes sense for them, because of the economics of the NFL.

Basically, what the Raiders are doing right now is pretty smart.

They were one of the most pitiful franchises in the NFL, slowly built their core through the draft, and then splurged on the FA market to fill out around their core. By dumping all of that money into the last year of the four year window they can splurge like this while also not hampering their cap in the future too badly if the signings don't pan out.

Basically, if you think the 9ers are really crappy team right now and are at best two to three years away from even thinking about competing what they're doing make sense.

If you think the 9ers are a better team than their record what they're doing doesn't make as much sense.

I knew it was a three year thing. I thought tho that it was a rolling ANY three years...IE if they didn't spend this year it would put them in danger in future years.

Either way tho....they gotta spend some money. If they go into the season 50 mil below the cap there might be riots at Levis.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Y'all came to my party.

This aint stalking.

As for letting the market settle -- that's cool. Only lost Alex Boone, about to have Blaine Gabbert anointed as the starter and got $60m sitting there waiting to be spent.

Ted Larsen though...

If they retain Boone and sign a Brock Osweiler (top FA QB) .. where does that leave the Niners in 2016? Are they suddenly a threat?

The answer of course is no. And there in lies my point. Spending money just to spend it doesn't always alleviate your problem, in fact many times it actually spirals your franchise on a longer road to recovery.

The Broncos are the exception, not the rule to free agency. And even then their 1 ring probably came at the expense of another 1-2 Super Bowls given the exodus of talent.

Again - the FA class being what it is and the draft being what it is.. there is no realistic way for the Niners to suddenly gain a whole lot of ground on 2 of the best teams in football.. much less the others they'd compete with for a wild card spot.

 

[Popeyejones]

I knew it was a three year thing. I thought tho that it was a rolling ANY three years...IE if they didn't spend this year it would put them in danger in future years.

Either way tho....they gotta spend some money. If they go into the season 50 mil below the cap there might be riots at Levis.

Yeah, it resests every four years, so this is the last year of the first window (e.g. why the Raiders and Jags had to make FA splashes).

For the next rolling window what the 9ers did this year doesn't matter.

Agreed about rioting at Levis. :lol:

IMO the team sucks though, and the fans simply have tive with it.

Consistently trying to appease fans in the short term is how you end up with decades long futility IMO.

Think of Browns fans, who rejoice once every three years when the org cleans house, but in between those moments the team is awful, and there's never any growth because everything gets turned over again and again. (e.g. Rejoice about Hue Jackson but then watch him let four above average players in their primes just walk because he's "starting over"; rinse repeat).

If the 9ers start making bad FA signings to appease the fans they might as well just give up now.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

What?

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that...

Y'all came to my party.

This aint stalking.

As for letting the market settle -- that's cool. Only lost Alex Boone, about to have Blaine Gabbert anointed as the starter and got $60m sitting there waiting to be spent.

Ted Larsen though...

If they retain Boone and sign a Brock Osweiler (top FA QB) .. where does that leave the Niners in 2016? Are they suddenly a threat?

The answer of course is no. And there in lies my point. Spending money just to spend it doesn't always alleviate your problem, in fact many times it actually spirals your franchise on a longer road to recovery.

The Broncos are the exception, not the rule to free agency. And even then their 1 ring probably came at the expense of another 1-2 Super Bowls given the exodus of talent.

Again - the FA class being what it is and the draft being what it is.. there is no realistic way for the Niners to suddenly gain a whole lot of ground on 2 of the best teams in football.. much less the others they'd compete with for a wild card spot.

I'm not suggesting money for the sake of it. That was made clear in the OP. I didn't suggest Osweiler as a viable option that's for sure.

But they could've made some moves to improve their roster. Even in the second wave they were thoroughly inactive. Currently they have arguably one of the 2-3 worst rosters in the league. Unless they intend to be f-ing awful again in 2016 (that's not the impression I get from Jeddy boy) they appear to be on a fast track to another top-five pick.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^ They suck, though.

They could have dumped around 30 million APY into Osemele, Sean Smith, and Bruce Irvin and they would have won what, 5 games instead of 3 if they're lucky?

Then two or three years down the line when they've ostensibly built a talent base up through the draft again and have their own guys to resign they've got a 32 year old Sean Smith and a 32 year old Bruce Irvin at ten plus million each on the books.

To be clear I don't think this is what they're doing*, but if this WAS what they were doing I wouldn't fault them for it. Trying to improve a really bad team through FA is just all kinds of stupid.

*What they're doing is what Baalke has always done (the above would only be true if he was using a different strategy than he has used in the past). It's kinda weird in that everyone knows that being an active player on the FA market until the end of it is almost always a bad idea, but every single year people cover their eyes and pretend they don't know that and compliment the teams that "win" FA and criticize the teams that sit it out. It's like people shut their brains off for FA because there's nothing else going on to talk about or be excited about. The silliest part is that the teams that are most known for sitting out of FA are also the teams that have most consistently performed well across the FA era (e.g. Packers, Steelers, Pats, Ravens).

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

I thought you weren't a Niners fan any more?