4th down PI

[RiverDog]

It wasn't clean, he did make contact while the ball was in the air and could have been called, but it wasn't by any means flagrant or a no brainer.

What was worse was Pete's decision to go for it on 4th and goal from the 2 with plenty of time left in the game. KC hasn't given up a rushing TD all year, we don't have that big, physical receiver to go to in those situations, and Russell's running isn't much of a threat on a compressed field like that. Pete went against the odds and did not give us the best chance to win. Every once in awhile, he makes an emotional decision and pushes all his chips to the center of the table.

I thought Pete's brain faurt would be the worst coaches decision until I watched the SNF game when Pagano, down by two scores, went for it on 4th and 10 from his own 30 with 8 minutes to go. Man, I must be getting old if I'm the only one that sees things that way.

 

[CodeWarrior]

It wasn't clean, he did make contact while the ball was in the air and could have been called, but it wasn't by any means flagrant or a no brainer.

What was worse was Pete's decision to go for it on 4th and goal from the 2 with plenty of time left in the game. KC hasn't given up a rushing TD all year, we don't have that big, physical receiver to go to in those situations, and Russell's running isn't much of a threat on a compressed field like that. Pete went against the odds and did not give us the best chance to win. Every once in awhile, he makes an emotional decision and pushes all his chips to the center of the table.

I thought Pete's brain faurt would be the worst coaches decision until I watched the SNF game when Pagano, down by two scores, went for it on 4th and 10 from his own 30 with 8 minutes to go. Man, I must be getting old if I'm the only one that sees things that way.

I'm 29 and hated the call.

 

[aawolf]

IMO, if Baldwin is going to give up on the route and demand a flag, he better sell out flopping on the call instead of just getting pushed, stopping, putting his hands up in surrender, and then whining about a flag. He should have fallen out of bounds and acted like he was getting the crap pushed out of him instead of just stopping upright. At least then there would be a better chance of getting the call. He does need acting lessons as others have pointed out. Still, it might not have worked, but there would be a much better chance of getting the call. This week on the to-do list: FLOPPING LESSONS.

 

[Sarlacc83]

It was a cagey veteran play. He knew his hips were turned and he was beat to the back of the end zone. So he gave Baldwin a quick shove and got away with it.

Wouldn't bother me if I didn't think that gets called on Seattle 10 times out of 10.

 

[firebee]

We had a lot of non-calls go our way too. Yes... That was PI... Smith hand checked Baldwin in the back and gave him a push. It was not incidental contact, legs getting tied up or just bumping each other. Watch the video and you can see that Smith pushes Baldwin in the back because he knew he was burnt if he didn't get a hand on Baldwin to check him off the route. As I've said though... I'd rather see games decided on non-calls than ticky-tack flag football calls. Baldwin shouldn't have given up on the play. Should've tried diving for the ball, even if he had no chance at it. He would've been more likely to draw a flag if he did that than giving up on the play and throwing his hands up.

 

[TheHawkster]

I could understand if they were both running parallel and there is contact as they are trying to get to the ball. Happens every play.

But that defender ran AT Doug, then gave him a forearm that shoved Doug off his route. Nothing incidental about it.



Dumb call anyways. But imagine if we had a tall wide receiver that can go up and get those types and plays. :shock: I know crazy!

We do his name is Norwood but despite catching everything thrown his way he does not get on the field enough.

So Wilson gets to throw to

5-10 Baldwin
6 - Richardson
6-1 Kearse aka stone hands

Yeah that scares defenses, they played man most of the day and our guys hardly got open and never seemed to make any plays on the ball.

Anyone not named Darrell Jackson or Koren Robinson can't be called "Stone Hands".
Just like anyone not named Willie Williams can't be called "Burned Toast".

 

[SeatownJay]

I could understand if they were both running parallel and there is contact as they are trying to get to the ball. Happens every play.

But that defender ran AT Doug, then gave him a forearm that shoved Doug off his route. Nothing incidental about it.



Dumb call anyways. But imagine if we had a tall wide receiver that can go up and get those types and plays. :shock: I know crazy!

We do his name is Norwood but despite catching everything thrown his way he does not get on the field enough.

So Wilson gets to throw to

5-10 Baldwin
6 - Richardson
6-1 Kearse aka stone hands

Yeah that scares defenses, they played man most of the day and our guys hardly got open and never seemed to make any plays on the ball.

Anyone not named Darrell Jackson or Koren Robinson can't be called "Stone Hands".
Just like anyone not named Willie Williams can't be called "Burned Toast".

Fred "Toast" Thomas disagrees with you.

 

[ManBunts]

I'm gonna weigh in as PI. Definitely not the most flagrant, but by the letter of the law, which they are SUPPOSEDLY enforcing much more this year, it was. It was past the allowable contact zone, it directly affected the direction of his route and ability to catch the ball. It was. But no ref wants to make that call, give a team a new set of downs, and the win potentially.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

More like illegal contact than PI, but I'll flip it around on you guys.

If Sherman did this, we'd all be praising him today for making a play. I'm tired of our mediocre receivers not making plays when it counts.......and Doug should have gone and got the damn ball. Just goes to show why we need bigger receivers if we're ever going to have red zone success.

Can't have a bunch of midgets running around the end zone getting knocked off the ball so easily.

 

[twisted_steel2]

Can't have a bunch of midgets running around the end zone getting knocked off the ball so easily.

Really agree with this, I like Baldwin, but he's 189 pounds... the guy who gave him a forearm and knocked him off his route looked huge compared to him. Think Dez Bryant gets pushed around so easily?

 

[TorontoHawk]

May have overreacted. But I still say that there was contact.

Edit: never mind

What ifs. Man I hate them.

It is football right? Contact is going to happen, maybe Baldwin should not give up on the play and stop crying to the refs.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It is football right? Contact is going to happen, maybe Baldwin should not give up on the play and stop crying to the refs.

Yep.

Doug knew the play was to him at the back corner of the end zone, get there.........or make it so there's no doubt to the ref that illegal contact was made. Instead he gives up after the bump, and gave the ref the opportunity to make the no call.

Happened with Kearse and Richardson during the game as well, where they didn't fight hard enough for the ball. Kearse by the pylon for the TD, and Richardson on the 4th and long to end the game.

This team needs big receivers, and it needs them bad.

 

[kearly]

If you shove a WR off his route with the ball in the air the there should be three flags on the field in a nano-second. Incidental contact doesn't really exist one second into a play. And besides, it's not like they had their feet tangled or anything that you would associate with incidental contact. The Chiefs defender SHOVED Baldwin IN THE BACK. Don't let a clueless color commentator sway you, that shit was PI. Though for the record, even if Baldwin hadn't been shoved I think that pass was likely overthrown. Would have been an ultra tough play to make.

I'm not blaming the officials for this loss, because I thought Seattle kind of caught a break on the hands to the face call that helped set up their first TD (it was the "correct" call, but ultra ticky tack). I think between that and the 4th and goal non-call things evened out.

It was a bad playcall by Bevell too of course. Bevell deserves taking some heat after this game. The Hawks should have fed the beast on 4th and goal. Seattle had an 80% power running success rate entering this game, 2nd in the NFL. And yes, that number includes games when Unger wasn't on the field too.

If they did throw on 4th and goal, why hurry the pass? The Chiefs would be selling out to stop the run for sure, Wilson would have had all day to survey the end zone. And if they did want to hurry the pass, why not target Helfet or Willson on a fade, instead of a 5'10 WR?

Really sucks that Unger was hurt a few plays before. Two failures on 4th and short after he left, with a healthy Unger, it might have been just enough. Lynch missed the second one by a few inches.

 

[nepahawk]

It was PI. Baldwin faked a post and turned out to the corner and got rubbed off his route. He had no chance of getting to the spot where the ball was thrown. Their legs didn't get tangled up. He hit him up high.

Without that shove, he's wide open in the corner!!

 

[hawknation2014]

Carroll commented today that he thought it was PI even though the bump was "sight," in his words, because it knocked Baldwin off his route.

My question is why is Baldwin getting redirected by a "slight" and seemingly inadvertent bump. I feel like he gave up on the play in the hopes of drawing a flag, and the refs didn't like it.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

My question is why is Baldwin getting redirected by a "slight" and seemingly inadvertent bump. I feel like he gave up on the play in the hopes of drawing a flag, and the refs didn't like it.

I think that too. I think that he could have fought for at least a chance at the ball but he thought he got the PI call and gave up on it.

 

[mikeak]

I encourage everyone to go out in their backyard and run at an angle, turn their head and get a slight bump in their back

I am telling you even a stout guy at that position and angle would get knocked off his route

It was very interesting that the commentators discussed the "inadvertent" contact without showing an angle of the play that showed if he was pushed or it was inadvertent.

The original play clearly looked like hands shoving a player.

I do however completely agree that we previously had gotten away with back-to-back PIs. With that said when running a timing route pushing someone off the track is a big freaking deal

 

[morgulon1]

I could understand if they were both running parallel and there is contact as they are trying to get to the ball. Happens every play.

But that defender ran AT Doug, then gave him a forearm that shoved Doug off his route. Nothing incidental about it.



Dumb call anyways. But imagine if we had a tall wide receiver that can go up and get those types and plays. :shock: I know crazy!

We do his name is Norwood but despite catching everything thrown his way he does not get on the field enough.

So Wilson gets to throw to

5-10 Baldwin
6 - Richardson
6-1 Kearse aka stone hands

Yeah that scares defenses, they played man most of the day and our guys hardly got open and never seemed to make any plays on the ball.

Anyone not named Darrell Jackson or Koren Robinson can't be called "Stone Hands".
Just like anyone not named Willie Williams can't be called "Burned Toast".

Fred "Toast" Thomas disagrees with you.

Brian "milque toast" Russell would strongly disagree.

 

[TorontoHawk]

It was PI. Baldwin faked a post and turned out to the corner and got rubbed off his route. He had no chance of getting to the spot where the ball was thrown. Their legs didn't get tangled up. He hit him up high.

Without that shove, he's wide open in the corner!!

Not a shove, he bumped into him.

 

[Sarlacc83]

It was PI. Baldwin faked a post and turned out to the corner and got rubbed off his route. He had no chance of getting to the spot where the ball was thrown. Their legs didn't get tangled up. He hit him up high.

Without that shove, he's wide open in the corner!!

Not a shove, he bumped into him.

With his forearm extended.