A Deconstruction and Chronicle of Pete's Defense

[CalgaryFan05]

If we have last year's defense now, that defense averaged 21.5 point per game while suffer long minutes on the field courtesy of RussBall, we would be 3-1 and leading NFCW.

This.

 

[Spin Doctor]

THIS. And I agree - they suck, but are improving every week. We got hope IMO.

I'm just happy that the gods are letting us grind the offense a little to take some pressure off the D. Gone are the days (hopefully) of 2 garbage plays, a deep bomb attempt from RW into triple coverage (which for some reason we can never snag DPI on like the rest of the league 50% of the time on deep crap), and then a punt. D is great - and hopefully improving, but not the entire story here.

Props to Fade for the research and effort and the post.

Are they improving every day? I can see improvement in individual players such as Woolen and Boye Mafe but the unit as a whole isn't improving. We gave up 45 points this sunday and the team we played didn't even have their three largest threats on offense and they were literally trotting out practice squad receivers against us. They also were missing their starting center and guard.

Despite the Lions missing all of those players they amassed their highest point total of the year against the defense. We gave up over 1000 yards combined, the Lions and the Seahawks.

 

[Fade]

To those claiming I cherry picked, I am sorry I didn't.

I literally did an objective, mini-write up on every defensive player that was drafted in the first 3 rounds since 2019. And every player currently on defense that was making $5M APY or more. I kept the good like, Nwosu. There just isn't much good to be found. I even gave Pete credit for being a DB whisperer.

I did him a favor because if I went back further you run into. Malik McDowell, Lano Hill, Naz Jones, and Rasheem Green in '17 and '18.

The last good defensive players they drafted in the first 3 rounds were Frank Clark in '15, and J.Reed & Shaq Griffin in '16.

Defensive Draft Picks:
'17 swing and a miss.
'18 swing and a miss.
'19 swing and a miss.
'20 swing and a miss.
'21 Didn't have any picks traded them away for Adams (1st & 3rd) took Eskridge a WR w/2nd.

'22 is too early to tell, but all you have is Mafe in the first 3 rounds.

So how is Pete going to start magically drafting well on defense with higher picks when they've all been flops for going on 6 drafts?

Woolen, the 5th rounder, is looking like the only Blue Chip defensive player drafted since Frank Clark in 2015, when you include all rounds. 7 years between those drafts.

I'm not a harsh grader in the draft when you're talking day 3 (4th-7th). Those guys making the team and being contributors, filling out the roster, having one pop everyone once in a while is enough. But rounds 1-3, I expect a Defensive Guru HC to be right most of the time. He can't seem to get anything right at this juncture.

How and why would you want this to continue? Why defend this? Change is needed.

 

[Rock_the_Hawk]

I think the line is quite blurred. The thing that I DON'T like between the two schemes (and If ya noticed, I'm pretty sure the 49ers were running a 4-3 'dinosaur' scheme the other night).

At base, and this is simplistic. Is is quicker to bring a person up in a 3-4 to address a run, or drop a person in a 4-3 into pass coverage? I don't really know the answer to the question, but if you're running a 4-3, and it's a run, you're dude's already there. If you're running a 3-4 and you need run support - which I can't help but notice that we completely sucked at for 3 straight weeks - it takes time for the back to identify and bring him in. By the time you get there - the play is over.

I don't understand what the fascination is with the 3-4. Got it, it's a pass defense. But, In my opinion, it's so weak on run (hybrids and stunts aside) - I don't know why it's the current flavour. And it's obviously past our personnel - and I agree with Fade in a previous post: If it takes 2 years to learn - what is the point - personnel rotate more frequently than that.

Collier is going to help with the run D. I nobody is going to believe that but just watch...

 

[Ozzy]

That would be nice if he did, as a first round pick who's been a complete bust it would be great if in year 5 or whatever he at least helped with the run game. I'm being a little snarky but mean it.

 

[Fade]

They just made Dalton and Hill look like Montana and Young. They are also bottom 5 in all 5 major statistical categories. How much more evidence do you need before you're on the wagon?

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

They just made Dalton and Hill look like Montana and Young. They are also bottom 5 in all 5 major statistical categories. How much more evidence do you need before you're on the wagon?

*Toot* *Toot*

 

[Polk738]

To those claiming I cherry picked, I am sorry I didn't.

I literally did an objective, mini-write up on every defensive player that was drafted in the first 3 rounds since 2019. And every player currently on defense that was making $5M APY or more. I kept the good like, Nwosu. There just isn't much good to be found. I even gave Pete credit for being a DB whisperer.

I did him a favor because if I went back further you run into. Malik McDowell, Lano Hill, Naz Jones, and Rasheem Green in '17 and '18.

The last good defensive players they drafted in the first 3 rounds were Frank Clark in '15, and J.Reed & Shaq Griffin in '16.

Defensive Draft Picks:
'17 swing and a miss.
'18 swing and a miss.
'19 swing and a miss.
'20 swing and a miss.
'21 Didn't have any picks traded them away for Adams (1st & 3rd) took Eskridge a WR w/2nd.

'22 is too early to tell, but all you have is Mafe in the first 3 rounds.

So how is Pete going to start magically drafting well on defense with higher picks when they've all been flops for going on 6 drafts?

Woolen, the 5th rounder, is looking like the only Blue Chip defensive player drafted since Frank Clark in 2015, when you include all rounds. 7 years between those drafts.

I'm not a harsh grader in the draft when you're talking day 3 (4th-7th). Those guys making the team and being contributors, filling out the roster, having one pop everyone once in a while is enough. But rounds 1-3, I expect a Defensive Guru HC to be right most of the time. He can't seem to get anything right at this juncture.

How and why would you want this to continue? Why defend this? Change is needed.

I'm not sure if I would call Shaq Griffin a "good" defensive player, at the time I would've considered him VERY average and definitely didn't think he warranted the contract that the Jags gave him, he's doing better now but definitely wasn't good by any means when he left for FA.

 

[Rat]

I'm not sure if I would call Shaq Griffin a "good" defensive player, at the time I would've considered him VERY average and definitely didn't think he warranted the contract that the Jags gave him, he's doing better now but definitely wasn't good by any means when he left for FA.

Yeah, I'd guess he probably ranks in the like 8-10 range among best DB acquisitions we've made in the Carroll era. He was just ok; I've never wished we gave him what the Jags did.

 

[cymatica]

They just made Dalton and Hill look like Montana and Young. They are also bottom 5 in all 5 major statistical categories. How much more evidence do you need before you're on the wagon?

And backup receivers

 

[Fade]

And backup receivers

Good point. I left that part out.

 

[Fade]

I'm not sure if I would call Shaq Griffin a "good" defensive player, at the time I would've considered him VERY average and definitely didn't think he warranted the contract that the Jags gave him, he's doing better now but definitely wasn't good by any means when he left for FA.

Yeah, Griffin is definitely borderline. Just trying to be objective and fair.

 

[Polk738]

- Poona Ford ($10.075M cap hit in 2022.)

(Poona was one of the best 1-Tech's in the NFL. So Seattle decided to pay him and move him to 3-Tech and spend money on Woods and Mone to fill the void Poona left. Makes sense. This season they moved him again to 3-4 end, where it requires size and length, where guys are usually around 6-5. Poona is 5-11. To no one's surprise he is struggling playing out of position.)

[Utilization: 1-Tech in a 4-3. Doesn't fit the scheme.]

Poona is the most baffling to me, this guy has been so good on the defensive line the last couple of years, and played many different positions not just 1-tech, to me it doesn't look like he is being used THAT differently compared to last year as they did line up in some 3-4 alignments last season and he was doing fine, Matty F Brown had a nice breakdown video of his play last season so I'm really not seeing what is so drastically different this season.

 

[TwistedHusky]

We have spent an obscene amount of draft capital on Defense in the past 7-8 years.

We have spent lavishly on FAs in the trade market as well.

We literally have the worst defense I have EVER seen as a Seahawk fan. EVER. Going back to at least watching in the 80s. Norton was one of the worst in NFL history. Most of us would probably take him back in a heartbeat vs this.

We have had some terrible teams in the past. Horrific, in fact. Never a defense this bad.

I get this is 5 games. Things revert to the mean. But right now - this is the worst.

Now contrast to how much we spent to get here? Things look pretty bad.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

We have spent an obscene amount of draft capital on Defense in the past 7-8 years.

We have spent lavishly on FAs in the trade market as well.

We literally have the worst defense I have EVER seen as a Seahawk fan. EVER. Going back to at least watching in the 80s. Norton was one of the worst in NFL history. Most of us would probably take him back in a heartbeat vs this.

We have had some terrible teams in the past. Horrific, in fact. Never a defense this bad.

I get this is 5 games. Things revert to the mean. But right now - this is the worst.

Now contrast to how much we spent to get here? Things look pretty bad.

Uh oh... Time to hope for statistics to support your narrative or build new excuses to support your narrative.

This statement of your is literally not literal. For many it is likely entertaining though.

 

[FrodosFinger]

We have spent an obscene amount of draft capital on Defense in the past 7-8 years.

We have spent lavishly on FAs in the trade market as well.

We literally have the worst defense I have EVER seen as a Seahawk fan. EVER. Going back to at least watching in the 80s. Norton was one of the worst in NFL history. Most of us would probably take him back in a heartbeat vs this.

We have had some terrible teams in the past. Horrific, in fact. Never a defense this bad.

I get this is 5 games. Things revert to the mean. But right now - this is the worst.

Now contrast to how much we spent to get here? Things look pretty bad.

Fortunately we’re 3-3 thanks to Geno. And the Seahawks are in one of the best shapes in the league in terms of draft capital and future cap so they might look bad to you but to people that actually know football things couldn’t be better. Thank God we traded Russ or we would’ve sucked for the next 10 years. Russ is a roster killer. Period.

 

[Scout]

Fortunately we’re 3-3 thanks to Geno. And the Seahawks are in one of the best shapes in the league in terms of draft capital and future cap so they might look bad to you but to people that actually know football things couldn’t be better. Thank God we traded Russ or we would’ve sucked for the next 10 years. Russ is a roster killer. Period.

I have no clue how Denver will be able to keep all of its defensive talent when they are set to hit UFA. Most of the cap space is tied up on offense for the Broncos between Sutton and Wilson through 2025. The only other notable name signed to 2025 is R. Gregory.

Seattle on the other hand has a healthy cap situation and if the draft picks of 2022 and future 2023 continue perform even better. That is cap saving as well as being able to retain whatever players Seattle wants on offense or defense to form a new core.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So how is Pete going to start magically drafting well on defense with higher picks when they've all been flops for going on 6 drafts?

Because they haven't had high picks for going on 6 drafts until this year, that's why.

The first draft in almost a decade that the Hawk's have had picks, they went out and drafted two cornerstone tackles, a franchise RB, an excellent LB and two CB's that are already starting, one's on track for rookie DPOY.

But just keep beating your tired worn out I hate Pete Carroll drum Fade. It's your jam, we wouldn't expect anything less.

Maybe Shaggy can make you your own Pete Carroll Hater sub-forum so you can keep all your exhausting threads nice and tidy.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Fortunately we’re 3-3 thanks to Geno. And the Seahawks are in one of the best shapes in the league in terms of draft capital and future cap so they might look bad to you but to people that actually know football things couldn’t be better. Thank God we traded Russ or we would’ve sucked for the next 10 years. Russ is a roster killer. Period.

 

[Fade]

Because they haven't had high picks for going on 6 drafts until this year, that's why.

The first draft in almost a decade that the Hawk's have had picks, they went out and drafted two cornerstone tackles, a franchise RB, an excellent LB and two CB's that are already starting, one's on track for rookie DPOY.

But just keep beating your tired worn out I hate Pete Carroll drum Fade. It's your jam, we wouldn't expect anything less.

Maybe Shaggy can make you your own Pete Carroll Hater sub-forum so you can keep all your exhausting threads nice and tidy.

They've drafted twice as many defensive players, over offensive players the previous 5 seasons with their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks and virtually hit on none of them.

Why defend this?