"Are we witnessing Pete Carroll's coaching masterpiece?"

[hawknation2018]

My vote would go to Belichick right now. That team is playing way over their heads and will probably be representing the AFC in the superbowl. Which they have no business doing imo, they don't have enough talent, but they got the coaching.

In the AFC
San Diego
Pittsburgh
Houston
Kansas City
Baltimore
Maybe even Denver collectively are all more talented personnel wise than the Pats, but they got Belichick so it is moot.



I will switch my vote to Pete Carroll if the Seahawks win out, and the Pats drop a couple down the stretch.

@ Mad Dog: I agree Pete was amazing in 2010 & 2011. Pete could top 2010 this year, but he has to finish it, we aren't through the woods yet.

“Pete ball” is working.

 

[Fade]

Pete ball died after week 2 when Pete publicly stated that he screwed it up, and he was going to give more control over to Schotty, and the offensive staff. His words not mine.

 

[lobohawk]

*DOUBLE POST*

Let me know when the Pats actually have competition in their division. Since B&B teamed up, the worst they’ve dealt with were the Pennington Jets. Guaranteed playoff slot and likely top seed. Still have to win, so they earned that, but few other champs have as little division competition.

 

[hawknation2018]

Pete ball died after week 2 when Pete publicly stated that he screwed it up, and he was going to give more control over to Schotty, and the offensive staff. His words not mine.

They were working in a new play caller in those first couple weeks. Carroll was referring to one offensive drive to start the second half against Chicago, when he thought we had a matchup advantage to take some shots downfield. He provided cover for his new offensive coordinator, which he always does for his assistant coaches.

The offense in those first two weeks was pass first, which has NEVER been Carroll’s philosophy. The offense since then has seen the actualization of a balanced offensive attack. To say this is not Carroll’s philosophy in action, in order to double down on a very silly comment, is a gross mischaracterization of reality.

 

[Seymour]

Pete ball died after week 2 when Pete publicly stated that he screwed it up, and he was going to give more control over to Schotty, and the offensive staff. His words not mine.

They were working in a new play caller in those first couple weeks. Carroll was referring to one offensive drive to start the second half against Chicago, when he thought we had a matchup advantage to take some shots downfield. He provided cover for his new offensive coordinator, which he always does for his assistant coaches.

The offense in those first two weeks was pass first, which has NEVER been Carroll’s philosophy. The offense since then has seen the actualization of a balanced offensive attack. To say this is not Carroll’s philosophy in action, in order to double down on a very silly comment, is a gross mischaracterization of reality.

Exactly!

Pete ball is run, run, pass deep, punt and rely on defense.

Without a very good D and run game it doesn't work and we start throwing without a very good pass protecting line...= fail.

 

[hawknation2018]

Pete ball died after week 2 when Pete publicly stated that he screwed it up, and he was going to give more control over to Schotty, and the offensive staff. His words not mine.

They were working in a new play caller in those first couple weeks. Carroll was referring to one offensive drive to start the second half against Chicago, when he thought we had a matchup advantage to take some shots downfield. He provided cover for his new offensive coordinator, which he always does for his assistant coaches.

The offense in those first two weeks was pass first, which has NEVER been Carroll’s philosophy. The offense since then has seen the actualization of a balanced offensive attack. To say this is not Carroll’s philosophy in action, in order to double down on a very silly comment, is a gross mischaracterization of reality.

Exactly!

Pete ball is run, run, pass deep, punt and rely on defense.

Without a very good D and run game it doesn't work and we start throwing without a very good pass protecting line...= fail.

It’s working this year without a very good D. We’re scoring points, more than we ever have before (except 2005). Pre-Bevell, Carroll had some of the highest scoring offenses in college football using this philosophy.

Projecting into the future, this offense will only get better with more time because Carroll has found a play caller who is capable of putting the ideas into action.

 

[Seymour]

Yep, it's working this year for 3 reasons.

1) Run game is great!

2) Turnover margin working for us.

3) All star punter.

I still believe we need minimum top 5 preferably top 3 defense to take Pete ball back to the SB for a win.

 

[hawknation2018]

Yep, it's working this year for 3 reasons.

1) Run game is great!

2) Turnover margin working for us.

3) All star punter.

I still believe we need minimum top 5 preferably top 3 defense to take Pete ball back to the SB for a win.

That’s a chicken or the egg question. I think the run game is great, first and foremost, because of our commitment to it.

Other factors: improved offensive line play under Solari, Carroll’s discovery of Chris Carson, the drafting and development of Rashaad Penny, Mike Davis as an underrated free agent acquisition, etc. Schottenheimer has an advanced understanding of the run game.

 

[Seymour]

Things don't work in your favor solely because you remain committed to it. You have to have basic parameters fall into place....like shit canning Cable and drafting and singing FA that can help your cause. Being committed then missing those things you still repeat 2016.

 

[Fade]

Yes, within that pass first offensive framework is "pete ball". Everyone run deep, no outlet receivers, hold the ball, get the QB killed.

Pete wanted to go straight to the climax, skip the foreplay, no nuance. = The problems of the previous 2 seasons continued right into this season.

"Pete Ball" is an obsession with the deep ball with no nuance to the play calling, everything is telegraphed. Little to no short or intermediate passing game, simple route tree, constantly running into loaded boxes, and constantly living in 2nd & 3rd and long.

"Pete Ball" died in Chicago.

They are now a "Marty Ball" team. The have a litany of man/power runs now, pulling tackles & guards, and have expanded their running game concepts greatly post week 2. Featuring more crossing routes, than I can ever remember them running before. It's broken up the stagnation of "Pete Ball", and made them very difficult to play against.

"Pete Ball" was a structural problem, not a philosophical one.

 

[hawknation2018]

Yes, within that pass first offensive framework is "pete ball". Everyone run deep, no outlet receivers, hold the ball, get the QB killed.

Pete wanted to go straight to the climax, skip the foreplay, no nuance. = The problems of the previous 2 seasons continued right into this season.

"Pete Ball" is an obsession with the deep ball with no nuance to the play calling, everything is telegraphed. Little to no short or intermediate passing game, simple route tree, constantly running into loaded boxes, and constantly living in 2nd & 3rd and long.

"Pete Ball" died in Chicago.

They are now a "Marty Ball" team. The have a litany of man/power runs now, pulling tackles & guards, and have expanded their running game concepts greatly post week 2. Featuring more crossing routes, than I can ever remember them running before. It's broken up the stagnation of "Pete Ball", and made them very difficult to play against.

"Pete Ball" was a structural problem, not a philosophical one.

:yawn:

 

[Mad Dog]

*DOUBLE POST*

Let me know when the Pats actually have competition in their division. Since B&B teamed up, the worst they’ve dealt with were the Pennington Jets. Guaranteed playoff slot and likely top seed. Still have to win, so they earned that, but few other champs have as little division competition.

This has always been a dynasty requirement. 80’s Niners, 90’s Dallas and 70’s Steelers all had pretty weak divisions.

Pats have been really good but the rest of the AFC East has been a crap show for over a decade. If they had to face the 2012-13 Niners or 2017-18 Rams, things might be different.

 

[Fade]

Let me know when the Pats actually have competition in their division. Since B&B teamed up, the worst they’ve dealt with were the Pennington Jets. Guaranteed playoff slot and likely top seed. Still have to win, so they earned that, but few other champs have as little division competition.

That theory would hold weight if Bill Belichick didn't school these teams consistently come playoff time.

Easy road sure. That will get you into the playoffs, but they would've been exposed years ago with tons of early playoff exits. They play in the AFC championship game pretty much every single year, and have made 8 Super Bowls.


And with the 6th best team in the AFC personnel wise at best this year will probably be playing in another Superbowl come Feb.

Bill Belichick so far this season is coach of the year.

 

[hawknation2018]

Belichick doesn’t make a lot of sense for Coach of the Year.

The award tends to go to the head coach of the team that most outperforms expectations.

The Patriots were 13-3 last year. Most pre-season prognosticators considered them a Super Bowl contender with their level of returning talent. The Patriots were the #1 ranked preseason team in the FiveThirtyEight Elo rankings.

Yet, they are on pace for 11 or 12 wins, which would be worse than last season.

The chance that he wins the award a 4th time, while regressing, is extremely unlikely.

 

[hawknation2018]

Fun fact: Belichick has more 11+ point losses this year (3) than Carroll has in the last seven years combined (2).

 

[Fade]

Fun fact: Belichick has more 11+ point losses this year (3) than Carroll has in the last seven years combined (2).

BB should. He has less talent to work with this year, but still found a way to coach them up. He now has them in position to win the AFC Conference with less talent than the other AFC contenders. Absolutely remarkable the job he is doing.

 

[Fade]

Belichick doesn’t make a lot of sense for Coach of the Year.

The award tends to go to the head coach of the team that most outperforms expectations.

The Patriots were 13-3 last year. Most pre-season prognosticators considered them a Super Bowl contender with their level of returning talent. The Patriots were the #1 ranked preseason team in the FiveThirtyEight Elo rankings.

Yet, they are on pace for 11 or 12 wins, which would be worse than last season.

The chance that he wins the award a 4th time, while regressing, is extremely unlikely.

That dumb logic cost JS Executive of the Year. And allowed guys like Jason Garrett to win Coach of the Year. FAIL.

 

[hawknation2018]

Belichick doesn’t make a lot of sense for Coach of the Year.

The award tends to go to the head coach of the team that most outperforms expectations.

The Patriots were 13-3 last year. Most pre-season prognosticators considered them a Super Bowl contender with their level of returning talent. The Patriots were the #1 ranked preseason team in the FiveThirtyEight Elo rankings.

Yet, they are on pace for 11 or 12 wins, which would be worse than last season.

The chance that he wins the award a 4th time, while regressing, is extremely unlikely.

That dumb logic cost JS Executive of the Year. And allowed guys like Jason Garrett to win Coach of the Year. FAIL.

Not really. Schneider should have won Executive of the Year and Carroll should have won the Coach of Year Award in 2012. No team outperformed expectations more than the Seahawks that year.

But I understand I am discussing this subject with someone who adamantly believes Dan Quinn is a better HC than Pete Carroll. That makes the discussion kind of pointless, now doesn’t it?

 

[Fade]

Belichick doesn’t make a lot of sense for Coach of the Year.

The award tends to go to the head coach of the team that most outperforms expectations.

The Patriots were 13-3 last year. Most pre-season prognosticators considered them a Super Bowl contender with their level of returning talent. The Patriots were the #1 ranked preseason team in the FiveThirtyEight Elo rankings.

Yet, they are on pace for 11 or 12 wins, which would be worse than last season.

The chance that he wins the award a 4th time, while regressing, is extremely unlikely.

That dumb logic cost JS Executive of the Year. And allowed guys like Jason Garrett to win Coach of the Year. FAIL.

Not really. Schneider should have won Executive of the Year and Carroll should have won the Coach of Year Award in 2012. No team outperformed expectations more than the Seahawks that year.

But I understand I am discussing this subject with someone who adamantly believes Dan Quinn is a better HC than Pete Carroll. That makes the discussion kind of pointless, now doesn’t it?

How many games did the Colts win the previous year compared to 2012?

Biggest improvement = coach of the year, and executive of the year. Based on your logic the media made the correct decision in selecting Grigson & Arians that year. FAIL.

My coaching rankings are a fluid list. I don't believe in anything. I go with what the information is telling me. And slant more towards recent history, and trends in an ever changing league. Quinn was barely ahead of Carroll when he was at his best (Having beaten Carroll 2 times head to head including the playoffs, and had gone to a Super Bowl since leaving SEA) and when Carroll was at his worst. Hanging on to Cable and Bevell for far too long will unfortunately damage your ranking. That is no longer the case, but damn so much butt hurt coming from you 2nite. Bringing crap out of left field.

 

[hawknation2018]

Belichick doesn’t make a lot of sense for Coach of the Year.

The award tends to go to the head coach of the team that most outperforms expectations.

The Patriots were 13-3 last year. Most pre-season prognosticators considered them a Super Bowl contender with their level of returning talent. The Patriots were the #1 ranked preseason team in the FiveThirtyEight Elo rankings.

Yet, they are on pace for 11 or 12 wins, which would be worse than last season.

The chance that he wins the award a 4th time, while regressing, is extremely unlikely.

That dumb logic cost JS Executive of the Year. And allowed guys like Jason Garrett to win Coach of the Year. FAIL.

Not really. Schneider should have won Executive of the Year and Carroll should have won the Coach of Year Award in 2012. No team outperformed expectations more than the Seahawks that year.

But I understand I am discussing this subject with someone who adamantly believes Dan Quinn is a better HC than Pete Carroll. That makes the discussion kind of pointless, now doesn’t it?

How many games did the Colts win the previous year compared to 2012?

Biggest improvement = coach of the year, and executive of the year. Based on your logic the media made the correct decision in selecting Grigson & Arians that year. FAIL.

My coaching rankings are a fluid list. I don't believe in anything. I go with what the information is telling me. And slant more towards recent history, and trends in an ever changing league. Quinn was barely ahead of Carroll when he was at his best (Having beaten Carroll 2 times head to head including the playoffs, and had gone to a Super Bowl since leaving SEA) and when Carroll was at his worst. Hanging on to Cable and Bevell for far too long will unfortunately damage your ranking. That is no longer the case, but damn so much butt hurt coming from you 2nite. Bringing crap out of left field.

I thought it was like a month ago that you were saying Quinn was a better HC than Carroll. Let me check.

Edit- It was in September. Still a strange take. LOL.