Arizonas Dominance

[Sgt. Largent]

Now, that being said, your coach is an asshat. I have always respected the Cardinals. When Kurt Warner and the Fitz were tearing up defenses not too long ago, it was a helluva sight to see. Your defense back than with Adrian Wilson and Antrel Rolle wasn't a bad group at all either. It's definitely my opinion that Wisenhunt was the architect for the group that Arians is currently utilizing. The comments your current head coach makes are pretty petty at times and seems like the aftermath of a bully who just got bullied himself. He's a good coach, and I personally knew Carson Palmer's brother for a time since we both went to the same university. But holy hell, how can you defend the guy with any shade of genuine objectivity?

Whoa now - I listen to a lot of Seahawks opinions about Arians, but the above is out of touch with reality. Keim turned over the roster immediately with BA and everything changed...everything (3 of those players were not on Arians roster, btw). Coach Whis was definitely NOT the architect for Arians, that would be like me saying Pete Carroll led the Seahawks using a blueprint that were architected by Holmgren (ignoring Mora).

Arians is no different than a lot of coaches, like the Sabans, Harbaughs and Caliparis of the world. His arrogance, defiance and saltiness is what gives him the grit to be a great coach.

Personally I like the Pete Carroll style, as I think that positive style works better with the modern player, and therefore can sustain itself longer?

We'll see how long Arians lasts, as I think his act will grow tired in Arizona, just like Harbaugh's did in SF. Players can only take that STFU my way or the highway act for so long before it implodes.

 

[CodeWarrior]

Arizona is the elementary school bully; they'll pummel you if allowed, but punch them in the mouth early and they'll fold. That type of attitude is embodied by their head coach.

 

[Nothinbutm]

But, the conversation may continue in a few weeks. (I think it could be with Redskins fans, though.)

There's 'Skins fans on this board?

 

[Popeyejones]

Arians is no different than a lot of coaches, like the Sabans, Harbaughs and Caliparis of the world. His arrogance, defiance and saltiness is what gives him the grit to be a great coach.

Personally I like the Pete Carroll style, as I think that positive style works better with the modern player, and therefore can sustain itself longer?

We'll see how long Arians lasts, as I think his act will grow tired in Arizona, just like Harbaugh's did in SF. Players can only take that STFU my way or the highway act for so long before it implodes.

Doesn't seem like it has grown old with Belichick yet.

As is the case with all things in the NFL, winning absolves all sins.

I guarantee that if the Seahawks really start losing before Carroll retires the downsides of his disinterest or unwillingness to discipline his team will be cited as a problem. If you're winning that Lynch does whatever the hell he wants whenever the hell he wants isn't "a problem", just like your undisciplined players jumping offsides and getting penalized all the time isn't "a problem."

Once you start losing though, those things become "problems" and become attributed to having a player's coach that doesn't discipline his team.

TBH I think swinging too far in either direction (tough father or forgiving mother) can be problematic in the long-term. Players can get worn by the tough father and eventually just tune him out. For the loving mother everything is amazing until it isn't, and when things go south they go south really quickly because there's not the structure in place to keep the ship afloat once it starts to sink, and once you let people get away with things without being held accountable, you never get that power back.

 

[Hawkpower]

Arians is no different than a lot of coaches, like the Sabans, Harbaughs and Caliparis of the world. His arrogance, defiance and saltiness is what gives him the grit to be a great coach.

Personally I like the Pete Carroll style, as I think that positive style works better with the modern player, and therefore can sustain itself longer?

We'll see how long Arians lasts, as I think his act will grow tired in Arizona, just like Harbaugh's did in SF. Players can only take that STFU my way or the highway act for so long before it implodes.

Doesn't seem like it has grown old with Belichick yet.

As is the case with all things in the NFL, winning absolves all sins.

I guarantee that if the Seahawks really start losing before Carroll retires the downsides of his disinterest or unwillingness to discipline his team will be cited as a problem. If you're winning that Lynch does whatever the hell he wants whenever the hell he wants isn't "a problem", just like your undisciplined players jumping offsides and getting penalized all the time isn't "a problem."

Once you start losing though, those things become "problems" and become attributed to having a player's coach that doesn't discipline his team.

TBH I think swinging too far in either direction (tough father or forgiving mother) can be problematic in the long-term. Players can get worn by the tough father and eventually just tune him out. For the loving mother everything is amazing until it isn't, and when things go south they go south really quickly because there's not the structure in place to keep the ship afloat once it starts to sink, and once you let people get away with things without being held accountable, you never get that power back.

Not sure that your characterization of Pete is completely fair here.

Does he run a looser ship than some? I would venture so. But to insinuate that there is no accountability or discipline is a bit much.

Guys that dont buy in here hit the road without mercy. I think Pete has the respect of the players in the locker room, and regardless of your style or approach, THAT is the only thing that matters in the end.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Arians is no different than a lot of coaches, like the Sabans, Harbaughs and Caliparis of the world. His arrogance, defiance and saltiness is what gives him the grit to be a great coach.

Personally I like the Pete Carroll style, as I think that positive style works better with the modern player, and therefore can sustain itself longer?

We'll see how long Arians lasts, as I think his act will grow tired in Arizona, just like Harbaugh's did in SF. Players can only take that STFU my way or the highway act for so long before it implodes.

Doesn't seem like it has grown old with Belichick yet..

I don't put Belichick in that burns too hot category. He's a hard ass, but he's calm cool and collected all the time.

He's also the first one to say we got our butts kicked and we're moving on. Don't see the same sort of humility out of Arians, he's WAY more smug and arrogant than Belichick.

 

[rideaducati]

Arians is no different than a lot of coaches, like the Sabans, Harbaughs and Caliparis of the world. His arrogance, defiance and saltiness is what gives him the grit to be a great coach.

Personally I like the Pete Carroll style, as I think that positive style works better with the modern player, and therefore can sustain itself longer?

We'll see how long Arians lasts, as I think his act will grow tired in Arizona, just like Harbaugh's did in SF. Players can only take that STFU my way or the highway act for so long before it implodes.

Doesn't seem like it has grown old with Belichick yet.

As is the case with all things in the NFL, winning absolves all sins.

I guarantee that if the Seahawks really start losing before Carroll retires the downsides of his disinterest or unwillingness to discipline his team will be cited as a problem. If you're winning that Lynch does whatever the hell he wants whenever the hell he wants isn't "a problem", just like your undisciplined players jumping offsides and getting penalized all the time isn't "a problem."

Once you start losing though, those things become "problems" and become attributed to having a player's coach that doesn't discipline his team.

TBH I think swinging too far in either direction (tough father or forgiving mother) can be problematic in the long-term. Players can get worn by the tough father and eventually just tune him out. For the loving mother everything is amazing until it isn't, and when things go south they go south really quickly because there's not the structure in place to keep the ship afloat once it starts to sink, and once you let people get away with things without being held accountable, you never get that power back.

I wonder why everyone thinks Pete doesn't discipline his players? Just because he doesn't do it in front of a camera or through the media, it doesn't mean he doesn't do it. Rule number 1...protect the team. Players are the team and Pete protects them and the team by disciplining behind closed doors.

After Marshawn was arrested for dui, Marshawn missed the first quarter of the next game with a "bellyache". Other players are cut. Many are benched mid-game.

There is PLENTY of discipline dispensed by Pete.

 

[Popeyejones]

Not sure that your characterization of Pete is completely fair here.

Does he run a looser ship than some? I would venture so. But to insinuate that there is no accountability or discipline is a bit much.

Guys that dont buy in here hit the road without mercy. I think Pete has the respect of the players in the locker room, and regardless of your style or approach, THAT is the only thing that matters in the end.

Pete is universally regarded (and celebrated) for being a player's coach. Although acknowledging this might be momentarily inconvenient in this thread it doesn't change that.

In any case, my point wasn't to disparage Pete Carroll. Instead, my point was to say that there are both upsides and downsides to different coaching styles, and when teams are winning we focus on the upsides of those styles and when teams are losing we focus on the downsides of those coaching styles.

That's it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Not sure that your characterization of Pete is completely fair here.

Does he run a looser ship than some? I would venture so. But to insinuate that there is no accountability or discipline is a bit much.

Guys that dont buy in here hit the road without mercy. I think Pete has the respect of the players in the locker room, and regardless of your style or approach, THAT is the only thing that matters in the end.

Pete is universally regarded (and celebrated) for being a player's coach. Although acknowledging this might be momentarily inconvenient in this thread it doesn't change that.

In any case, my point wasn't to disparage Pete Carroll. Instead, my point was to say that there are both upsides and downsides to different coaching styles, and when teams are winning we focus on the upsides of those styles and when teams are losing we focus on the downsides of those coaching styles.

That's it.

But you insinuated that Pete's "player coach" style might also pose problems.

The fact is while Pete lives in the positive realm let the players be themselves, if you think he's soft or lets the inmates run the prison, you're wrong.

Pete doesn't hesitate to get rid of problem players (White, Harvin) that cross the line and mess with his team chemistry........and the biggest roster turnover in the league over the past 4 years tells you he's not soft, he's also do what I ask you to do or you're gone (Williams) kind of coach. He's just not loud and obnoxious about it.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I largely agree with Popeye on this.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Pete doesn't hesitate to get rid of problem players (White, Harvin) that cross the line and mess with his team chemistry........and the biggest roster turnover in the league over the past 4 years tells you he's not soft, he's also do what I ask you to do or you're gone (Williams) kind of coach. He's just not loud and obnoxious about it.

I think there is another dimension to add to this. I also think it's a method of churning through players to find the ones that can execute the task at hand - you stand a better chance of winning the lottery by playing more times. To do that, you run a simplified scheme so you can turn over the roster faster than other teams, getting more shots at finding a winning ticket. So Pete isn't just cutting players that are problems, he will literally cut just about anyone once they find a better player. Not many coaches are that confident to do this (and have a front office on the same page to eat dead money).

I thing both Seattle and New England are leading the NFL in this regard and both coaches can handle the extreme turnover, although they each handle it very differently. Notice they both stumbled across HOF QBs by being pragmatic with that position as well...

 

[Hawkpower]

Not sure that your characterization of Pete is completely fair here.

Does he run a looser ship than some? I would venture so. But to insinuate that there is no accountability or discipline is a bit much.

Guys that dont buy in here hit the road without mercy. I think Pete has the respect of the players in the locker room, and regardless of your style or approach, THAT is the only thing that matters in the end.

Pete is universally regarded (and celebrated) for being a player's coach. Although acknowledging this might be momentarily inconvenient in this thread it doesn't change that.

In any case, my point wasn't to disparage Pete Carroll. Instead, my point was to say that there are both upsides and downsides to different coaching styles, and when teams are winning we focus on the upsides of those styles and when teams are losing we focus on the downsides of those coaching styles.

That's it.

Being a "players coach" isnt as black and white as you are painting it to be.

Its part of what makes Pete special and successful.

 

[Jville]

Arians is no different than a lot of coaches, like the Sabans, Harbaughs and Caliparis of the world. His arrogance, defiance and saltiness is what gives him the grit to be a great coach.

Personally I like the Pete Carroll style, as I think that positive style works better with the modern player, and therefore can sustain itself longer?

We'll see how long Arians lasts, as I think his act will grow tired in Arizona, just like Harbaugh's did in SF. Players can only take that STFU my way or the highway act for so long before it implodes.

Doesn't seem like it has grown old with Belichick yet.

As is the case with all things in the NFL, winning absolves all sins.

I guarantee that if the Seahawks really start losing before Carroll retires the downsides of his disinterest or unwillingness to discipline his team will be cited as a problem. If you're winning that Lynch does whatever the hell he wants whenever the hell he wants isn't "a problem", just like your undisciplined players jumping offsides and getting penalized all the time isn't "a problem."

Once you start losing though, those things become "problems" and become attributed to having a player's coach that doesn't discipline his team.

TBH I think swinging too far in either direction (tough father or forgiving mother) can be problematic in the long-term. Players can get worn by the tough father and eventually just tune him out. For the loving mother everything is amazing until it isn't, and when things go south they go south really quickly because there's not the structure in place to keep the ship afloat once it starts to sink, and once you let people get away with things without being held accountable, you never get that power back.

I wonder why everyone thinks Pete doesn't discipline his players? Just because he doesn't do it in front of a camera or through the media, it doesn't mean he doesn't do it. Rule number 1...protect the team. Players are the team and Pete protects them and the team by disciplining behind closed doors.

After Marshawn was arrested for dui, Marshawn missed the first quarter of the next game with a "bellyache". Other players are cut. Many are benched mid-game.

There is PLENTY of discipline dispensed by Pete.

It is just noise in the form of false stereotyping. I think Seahawk decisions are made via a collaboration. Any Henry Ford style management model doesn't apply to the Seahawks. That is a false narrative.

The Seahawk organization collectively loved the hard violent running style of Spencer Ware. His style really fit who they are. Unfortunately, Spencer came with a drinking problem and after two DUI's within the same year they collectively chose to give him a wake up call by cutting him from the roster. It must have been difficult for John Schneider because he still marvels over how violent Spencer ran coming out of LSU. And as we have seen, not every organization has the strength to cut a highly valued talent.

Fast forwarding to 2015 ..... Spencer has had an in season impact on keeping the Chiefs season going after the loss of their star running back. Older and wiser, Spencer has matured and made the most of his latest opportunity with the Chiefs. It is turning into a good story.

 

[Popeyejones]

Being a "players coach" isnt as black and white as you are painting it to be.

Its part of what makes Pete special and successful.

Yeah, I think the point that's rubbing -- and what is pretty clear on ths page of the thread on the whole -- is that we're talking past each other.

You are having a conversation about why Pete Carroll is special and successful and I'm having an entirely different conversation about there being both upsides and downsides to different coaching styles.

For me, like every other coach in the history of the NFL Pete Carroll's coaching style can be categorized. For you, the more interesting conversation is what make Pete Carroll uncategorizable.

It's two different convos with two different goals.

 

[Popeyejones]

Spencer came with a drinking problem and after two DUI's within the same year they collectively chose to give him a wake up call by cutting him from the roster. It must have been difficult for John Schneider because he still marvels over how violent Spencer ran coming out of LSU. And as we have seen, not every organization has the strength to cut a highly valued talent.
.

C'mon, dude. The forced (and inaccurate) hagiography here is ridiculous.

Rather than being a highly valued talent Spencer Ware was a late 6th round pick who spent the start of his rookie year in 2013 on the practice squad and the end of his rookie year on I.R. He finished with 3 carries.

In January of 2014 he got a DUI that was dismissed in July of 2014. He was on the Seahawks throughout all of that and through the preseason.

He didn't make the last round of cut for the Seahawks after the 4th pre-season game. Even throughout the pre-season he was getting back-of-the-roster mop up duty.

He didn't get his second DUI until after the Seahawks had already cut him.

The dude was a sixth round pick who got cut because he wasn't performing. He got a DUI and got the DUI dismissed six months later without a peep from the Hawks, and they didn't cut him until after he didn't perform in pre-season again and his only DUI had already been dismissed.

Turning this into "not every organization has the strength to cut a highly valued talent" over a DUI that hadn't happened yet is just insanity.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Look at Popeye.

Absolutely desperate. Clinging to the hope that Carroll's menacing team will somehow find a way to implode like his own miserable franchise.

That's all 49ers fans have these days. The ability to whinge and moan about the Seahawks and the opportunity to root against them (and probably the Cardinals as well).

Just cut out the middle man and go and buy a Tom Brady jersey.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Pete doesn't hesitate to get rid of problem players (White, Harvin) that cross the line and mess with his team chemistry........and the biggest roster turnover in the league over the past 4 years tells you he's not soft, he's also do what I ask you to do or you're gone (Williams) kind of coach. He's just not loud and obnoxious about it.

I think there is another dimension to add to this. I also think it's a method of churning through players to find the ones that can execute the task at hand - you stand a better chance of winning the lottery by playing more times. To do that, you run a simplified scheme so you can turn over the roster faster than other teams, getting more shots at finding a winning ticket. So Pete isn't just cutting players that are problems, he will literally cut just about anyone once they find a better player. Not many coaches are that confident to do this (and have a front office on the same page to eat dead money).

I thing both Seattle and New England are leading the NFL in this regard and both coaches can handle the extreme turnover, although they each handle it very differently. Notice they both stumbled across HOF QBs by being pragmatic with that position as well...

This is definitely true of Belichick, and IMO the MAIN reason he's consistently successful.

His hard ass style probably doesn't work for 80% of the league players, which is why he doesn't hesitate to churn most of his roster every 2-3 years so the players never have time to get sick of his style and how demanding he is.

 

[Ramfan128]

Lol...

Seahawks lose to Rams; Seahawks fans:

"This game didn't mean anything!"
"It's better that we lost"
"The Rams suck!"


But then when Cardinal fans do it, it's not okay? Lol.

 

[chris98251]

Harvin, Houshamensatka or however you spell it, Cary Williams, Moffit, Carpenter, and a host of other players were either cut, traded away for peanuts or not welcomed back. Pete doesn't make a big stink and headlines, guys just disappear. Thats the difference between the 49ers and the Seahawks with personnel. We eat it and cut our losses and move on.

 

[Polaris]

Lol...

Seahawks lose to Rams; Seahawks fans:

"This game didn't mean anything!"
"It's better that we lost"
"The Rams suck!"


But then when Cardinal fans do it, it's not okay? Lol.

Been there and covered that. In fact there was a considerable amount of introspection after what the Rams did not only with the fans but the team as well. If you don't think so, then you weren't paying attention. Pete on Brock and Salk was absolutely LIVID about how the team played and was very self critical.

Arians? not so much