BEST thing about Bennett's deal, could be Avril's future.

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

At the expense of nearly red shirting our young DE's all the way through their rookie contracts? Eventually someone will have to stand up among them and stop the carousel of $7m+ Free Agents.

It's not about age as much as contract size and allowing developmental players to establish themselves. If they choose to stick with Avril long term for 500 snaps fine. I don't think it's necessary. Detroit Avril had Suh and Van den Bosch, or in Seattle Clem and Bennett on his DLs. He's a six year vet.

Irvin had Clemons, Jason Jones (a disappointment), and Mebane. As a rookie. His flaws obviously looked more pronounced than Avril's.

Whether the Hawks go with Avril or Mayowa or Irvin is out of my hands but none of them is a Chris Clemons and their success at that position is part of the scheme.

I think you are creating a false equivalence between Mayowa, Irvin and Avril. Avril is pretty close to where Clemons was at his peak and way ahead of where he was in his first year with the team - albeit with a better supporting cast.

That being said, I hear where you are coming from with the youth movement, I am just saying two things.

1) Developing elite pass rushers is harder than developing any other position on the defense.

2) The LEO position is the MOST important position on the defense and second most important on the team after QB. The Atlanta game in 2012 is a perfect example as to what happens with 0 pass rush. We can't hold on to win. Point being, we can't just let rookies develop in that spot without having someone who can wreak havoc there too.

 

[Lady Talon]

At the expense of nearly red shirting our young DE's all the way through their rookie contracts? Eventually someone will have to stand up among them and stop the carousel of $7m+ Free Agents.

It's not about age as much as contract size and allowing developmental players to establish themselves. If they choose to stick with Avril long term for 500 snaps fine. I don't think it's necessary. Detroit Avril had Suh and Van den Bosch, or in Seattle Clem and Bennett on his DLs. He's a six year vet.

Irvin had Clemons, Jason Jones (a disappointment), and Mebane. As a rookie. His flaws obviously looked more pronounced than Avril's.

Whether the Hawks go with Avril or Mayowa or Irvin is out of my hands but none of them is a Chris Clemons and their success at that position is part of the scheme.

I think you are creating a false equivalence between Mayowa, Irvin and Avril. Avril is pretty close to where Clemons was at his peak and way ahead of where he was in his first year with the team - albeit with a better supporting cast.

That being said, I hear where you are coming from with the youth movement, I am just saying two things.

1) Developing elite pass rushers is harder than developing any other position on the defense.

2) The LEO position is the MOST important position on the defense and second most important on the team after QB. The Atlanta game in 2012 is a perfect example as to what happens with 0 pass rush. We can't hold on to win. Point being, we can't just let rookies develop in that spot without having someone who can wreak havoc there too.

If Avril was respected as a 3 down DE like Clemons, but much younger in 2013 Free Agency, he wouldn't have been signed by us on a short term prove it, he would have had a market. Michael Bennett had an injury question which is why he came cheap.

Avril may be closer to the others to where Clemons is, but give the others some snaps and time, and I doubt Avril is light years ahead of them.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

At the expense of nearly red shirting our young DE's all the way through their rookie contracts? Eventually someone will have to stand up among them and stop the carousel of $7m+ Free Agents.

It's not about age as much as contract size and allowing developmental players to establish themselves. If they choose to stick with Avril long term for 500 snaps fine. I don't think it's necessary. Detroit Avril had Suh and Van den Bosch, or in Seattle Clem and Bennett on his DLs. He's a six year vet.

Irvin had Clemons, Jason Jones (a disappointment), and Mebane. As a rookie. His flaws obviously looked more pronounced than Avril's.

Whether the Hawks go with Avril or Mayowa or Irvin is out of my hands but none of them is a Chris Clemons and their success at that position is part of the scheme.

I think you are creating a false equivalence between Mayowa, Irvin and Avril. Avril is pretty close to where Clemons was at his peak and way ahead of where he was in his first year with the team - albeit with a better supporting cast.

That being said, I hear where you are coming from with the youth movement, I am just saying two things.

1) Developing elite pass rushers is harder than developing any other position on the defense.

2) The LEO position is the MOST important position on the defense and second most important on the team after QB. The Atlanta game in 2012 is a perfect example as to what happens with 0 pass rush. We can't hold on to win. Point being, we can't just let rookies develop in that spot without having someone who can wreak havoc there too.

If Avril was respected as a 3 down DE like Clemons, but much younger in 2013 Free Agency, he wouldn't have been signed by us on a short term prove it, he would have had a market. Michael Bennett had an injury question which is why he came cheap.

Avril may be closer to the others to where Clemons is, but give the others some snaps and time, and I doubt Avril is light years ahead of them.

It is hard to fathom but Clemons came to us with a 4th round pick via trade from the Eagles for Darryl Tapp. In other words, the Eagles valued him less than Darryl Tapp; so much so that they had to add a draft pick to get the deal done. That is after Clem passed through Oakland and Washington. Point being Clem was never respected as a 3 down DE until he came here, in our system.

Conversely, in 2012, the Lions thought so highly of Avril as to give him the franchise tag as well as offer him 3-30. Which he declined.

That being said, last year was an odd year for pass rushers in free agency as we got two players who were severely undervalued by the market and I am not sure how it happened but I am grateful.

 

[Lady Talon]

Avril wasn't a 3 down DE in our system though, he was simply a veteran Bruce Irvin. Clemons got more snaps, legit rumors of trading for Jared Allen last year. Seems we didn't respect him as 3 down capable, either.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

829 Michael Bennett DE Sea 16 598 1,042 57.4%
830 Chris Clemons DE Sea 14 568 1,042 54.5%
831 Cliff Avril DE Sea 15 554 1,042 53.2%
832 Brandon Mebane DT Sea 16 532 1,042 51.1%
833 Clinton McDonald DT Sea 15 531 1,042 51.0%
834 Tony McDaniel DT Sea 16 527 1,042 50.6%

Clem got 14 more snaps this past year but no one on our defensive line got more than Bennett who was still not a true 3 down player. Truth is, we don't have a 3 down player mainly because we don't want one. We want everyone to be fresh. If we had the rotation we have now in previous years, Clem wouldn't have been a 3 down player either. Avril was valued as much as anyone. I don't know why you don't think the coaching staff respects him as a great player.

 

[Lady Talon]

Great player is one thing, great enough to resign next year come repeat or top rated defense while he tests FA while we have a young DE in Irvin that has and could still thrive in the same rotational capacity is the issue.

He isn't a Clemons who was out 2 games and recovering from ACL injury at 32, yet still managed to sway more snaps over the regular season, anymore than Bruce Irvin was.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Clemons also made 8.2 million in 2013

Avril made 3.75 million in 2013.

Sure, Clemons had the ACL rehab and missed 2 games but he played 3 seasons of experience at LEO.

Avril pretty much missed the entire off-season, OTAs, TC, Pre-Season and 1 game with various foot and hamstring injuries.

Clemons also has an Alpha Dog personality and he worked hard enough to get back to the team and take back the spot that was rightfully his through team stature and money wise.

Just because Avril did this or that in 2013 or even with the Lions, who played him in a similar role but still not the same, especially not with the same supporting cast of an elite Defense... it doesn't mean anything because Avril posseses all the tools to be a quality LEO perhaps an even more disruptive one than Clemons if you're looking at successful pressures per snap.

 

[Lady Talon]

Which is what I'm saying about writing the book on BI, or Mayowa, since one can't be written on a 6 year vet that's always played well with disruptive linemen around him. Easy to say pressure to snap count when you also have Clemons, McDaniel, and Bennett an OL needs to address.

Irvin got burned for playing out of position for the first time in his 17th game in Atlanta with Mebane as the only other quality D lineman on our active roster.

Weeks 1 and 2 would have been great times to stick somebody with all the tools in Clemons' vacant spot. They did, but it wasn't #56.