Breakdown on the 7 sacks, and more.

[Scottemojo]

I enjoyed the post and it was interesting to see the photos, but I'm curious how you know what the linemen were "supposed" to do on the given plays? Luke Willson was just on ESPN last week saying that nobody outside of the locker room knows what plays they're supposed to run and that things change completely as they lined up and linemen are calling out assignments.

So, did you get that info from coaching staff? If not, where? Are you just basing this on your own guesses, according to what you saw on film? How do you know that everyone on the field was perfectly executing whatever play was called in by the coaches, including whatever adjustments or assignment changes were called as they were lining up?

My problem with fan interpretation of game calling and what happens on plays is exactly what Luke WIllson, Warren Moon, Brock Huard, Pete Carroll and countless other athletes and coaches have all said in interviews. Unless you're part of the huddle and actually standing on the O-line, it is impossible for you to know how players are performing because you have no idea what plays are being called and what audibles/adjustments are being made at the line.

They are guesses. I watch each play a bunch of times from 2 angles. You are free to disregard as you see fit.

 

[kearly]

No offense, but this type of post hardly serves to elevate the discourse.

You are 100% correct. His post was essentially drawing a line in the sand at best, or "stay in line" strong arming at worst. That said, I'm glad he said it. It probably helped keep this thread sane by sending a warning shot.

 

[bigskydoc]

Excellent work. For several weeks now, I have been saying that this O-line is gelling into a pretty damn good unit, and it shows in these caps. We definitely missed Unger though. Yes they have work to do,

I think a huge part of the problem with the passing game is the 70% completion percentage target. During the offseason, I recall Wilson mentioning this as a goal for the year and thinking, "well I hope Carroll sits him down and says great goal and all, but let's be realistic. Only 4 QB's have completed an NFL season with a 70% or better completion percentage, and the quickest to do it was Brees in his 8th year (Anderson did it in his 11th and both Young and Montana in their 10th). Keep it in the back of your mind, but let's focus on winning and worry less about being great (prematurely)." Then my jaw dropped when I found out that Carroll was actually promoting this as a target for the season. Wilson plays best when he is relaxed, having fun, and improvising. I really wonder if the pressure to (prematurely) achieve elite, historical level excellence is messing with his mojo.

Don't get me wrong. I love that Carroll is pushing his players to be elite and the best they can be. I just think he needs to be careful and keep Wilson grounded in his early developmental years.

- bsd

 

[XxXdragonXxX]

Out of all those sacks, I see 1 clearly open receiver. The 3rd sack Russ absolutely should have hit the shallow cross, wide open.

The rest were either free rushers that Russ had no chance on, or balls he could have thrown away. When it comes to throwing the ball away however, Russ is going to try to extend those plays with his legs and look for someone to get open or run it. Unfortunately he wasn't able to do so on these plays, that's the gamble you take with a QB like Russ.


I'd also like to see a breakdown of the plays where Russell escaped pressure to make a play.

 

[kearly]

They are guesses. I watch each play a bunch of times from 2 angles. You are free to disregard as you see fit.

Fans are entitled to their opinion. What really matters is what Pete thinks.

I am starting to reach a point where I think one of Pete's top offseason priorities is finding a new OC. That's not to say Bevell is killing us, but I do believe that this season he is hurting us. It is an area of improvement and an easy fix relative to some other areas. I also think that Bevell's shortcomings have been easier to notice, and more difficult to defend this year.

I think Bevell is a great fit philosophically for Pete. I don't know if Pete could co-exist with a big ego coach. I think he looks for yes men, or failing that, brilliant teachers. Cable is a teacher. Bevell is a yes-man. I think that, plus loyalty, is why Bevell is still here, and might remain here for some time.

Of course, the same thing was true for Holt and Sark at UW. Holt should have been fired after his first year, he was light-himself-on-fire incompetent. I don't think Bevell is nearly that bad at his job, but I do see worrisome signs of incompetence... and Pete effectively looking the other way.

I'm sure firing Holt was the toughest thing Sark ever had to do, but he had to do it. And he did it too late. I don't know if Pete is capable of doing the same to Bevell, not unless Bevell becomes a bigger problem.

I used to be a Bevell supporter. I thought his vanilla stylings suited Seattle well. I started to turn on him last year when smarter DC's were running circles around him and Bevell would take weeks to make very basic adjustments that an average OC would make mid-game. He does fit Seattle, and he's a nice guy, and I think that's the only reason he still has a job here. In terms of competency he has to be near the bottom of the league, at least among OC's who've been at it as long as he has.

And I think it's gotten to the point now where it is holding Wilson back from his potential. I am not putting all the blame on Bevell, but I do think that if Pete replaced Bevell with a top shelf OC the difference in 2015 would likely be night and day. I honestly think Seattle's near total dependance on Russell Wilson magic to win games is as much about Bevell as it is Wilson.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

"..........our first TD came on a drive with a lot more quick passes".

I simply don't understand why Bevell/Pete don't incorporate more of this type of approach into our team's offense. That one sack that was obviously on Russ where he clearly had a guy open crossing underneath and didn't throw it to him was just exactly what I'm talking about. That's what a hot routs adjustment usually looks like.

So as several posters have mentioned, Russ has pressure with WRs running vertically with their backs turned to the LOS. Why is this? Is it because they're not recognizing the blitz and changing to a hot route? Is it cuz Russ isn't changing the routes at the LOS before the snap? Is it cuz Bevell has no routes to counter a defensive blitz? Makes no sense to me, but if anyone has an idea please respond.

 

[Largent80]

Scotte is my friggin hero.

Absolutely MUST have several beers with this man before turning in on life.

 

[Hawkspur]

Great post, Scott. Some very good replies too.

 

[byau]

Good post, good topic of discussion with some tangible visual aids. In a way, nice to have the 7 sacks so we can take a look

Seems like the blame is really all around. A bit of o-line, a bit of Russell, a bit of the WR corp

I think the O-line is what it is, they could be credit for a small number of those sacks as you suggested. They can keep improving, I don't think it's as bad as many (including me) have made them out to be

Which brings us to getting rid of the ball quicker. Likely a combo of things

1) Russell taking too long to make his reads and make a decision

2) Russell not trusting his receivers to get those 50/50 balls and thus being more careful about his decisions. If you've noticed, the completed passes the last few games were super wide open. So he's not willing to throw anything contended

3) Going on 2), maybe the receivers need to fight more and show they can get those 50/50 balls. The two INT against the Giants could almost be 50/50 balls and the WR could have fought for them more. They weren't super clean INT, the receivers were hands on the ball also.

4) Play calls specifically for a fast release without the reads that ARE NOT a bubble screen. The only screens that have worked so far this season were Harvin and then Lynch on the last option screen (which works REALLY well)

In the end, seems that at the very least Russell is taking care of the ball. Maybe throwing those INT has caused them (Coach, coordinators, Russell) to reel it back in temporarily. And hey, it worked.

Maybe now that they had successful game against a tough D, they will start letting it out a bit.

If it were up to me, at this point, I think some of those times that we clear the backfield should instead be used for passing plays and having Lynch as a screen option and Russell's last read Those almost always seem to be working tremendously, plus it gives Marshawn a huge running start down the field without the contact running into a D-line will give him. Those almost always seem to be successful.

It'd be nice to also set up some slant routes with ready blocks ala Denver and Wes Welker from the 4th quarter in week 2 against the Seahawks

 

[MontanaHawk05]

"..........our first TD came on a drive with a lot more quick passes".

I simply don't understand why Bevell/Pete don't incorporate more of this type of approach into our team's offense. That one sack that was obviously on Russ where he clearly had a guy open crossing underneath and didn't throw it to him was just exactly what I'm talking about. That's what a hot routs adjustment usually looks like.

I still worry that Wilson is just not seeing the middle of the field very effectively, because of, yes, his height. His ability to get the ball there isn't a concern, given his textbook-high release point. But perhaps Bevell doesn't send receivers there because Wilson's limited vision makes it a low-percentage area.

Another theory I've been considering - Seattle's offensive line is not the appalling mess that some make it out to be, but perhaps Wilson still needs more. He had an above-average line at Wisconsin. Perhaps some dominantly-established passing lanes and moving-pocket-savvy linemen are needed to really bring the most out of pocket-passer-Wilson. I personally don't see the easy connection people make between outstanding offensive line and Super Bowl dynasty (it hasn't been in evidence since the mid-00's), but Wilson may honestly be a more demanding QB in that aspect.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

BTW, in an epic endorsement of your analysis skillz, Scotte, Fieldgulls pretty much agrees with you.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/football-brea ... even-sacks

 

[pehawk]

This is a great topic and thread, thank you.

So, I think we can all agree that the screen pass was horrific situational football? Bad play design, against worst possible team, and a play that's obviously not taught well. I'm of the opinion Bevell is good for minimum 3-5 of those a game. Vut, let's just say one for arguments sake. What would the reaction be if it was a player doing at minimum one negligent thing a game? What would Pete do ( See Cmike)? Something that leads to a hit on Wilson?

That screen play is Bevell. That's not me scapegoating are acting like a reactionary rube, this is what he is. He will throw out plays that simply aren't high-standard NFL coordinating. At least it's safe to say in this thread without a mouth breather coming in and assuming the criticism is ill informed.

Edit to Montana; No one needs validation via field gulls, that's not some magical credibility. If that's the case, then I'm Mike Mayock with as much stuff of mine they favorite or retweet.

 

[Scottemojo]

BTW, in an epic endorsement of your analysis skillz, Scotte, Fieldgulls pretty much agrees with you.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/football-brea ... even-sacks

Yeah, but players and coaches say that if we aren't on the field, we don't know nothing, Montana!

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

"..........our first TD came on a drive with a lot more quick passes".

I simply don't understand why Bevell/Pete don't incorporate more of this type of approach into our team's offense. That one sack that was obviously on Russ where he clearly had a guy open crossing underneath and didn't throw it to him was just exactly what I'm talking about. That's what a hot routs adjustment usually looks like.

I still worry that Wilson is just not seeing the middle of the field very effectively, because of, yes, his height. His ability to get the ball there isn't a concern, given his textbook-high release point. But perhaps Bevell doesn't send receivers there because Wilson's limited vision makes it a low-percentage area.......

A good point for sure and I think your concerns about his lack of height are at least at times legit. But wouldn't you think that if he knew a hot route (or routes) were coming across the middle in response to a blitz, he could move a bit accordingly to open up a sight line? I still question whether any of these type of routes are being designed in response to a blitz.

 

[DavidSeven]

The article that Montana posted above suggests that the failed screen was on Russell. Everyone on the field is running the screen; Russell seemingly starts out by running an entirely different play. Was that a fake? Not sure. It does seem infathamable that a QB would make that mistake though, so I dunno. It was a mess once the ball was hiked.

 

[Scottemojo]

This is a great topic and thread, thank you.

So, I think we can all agree that the screen pass was horrific situational football? Bad play design, against worst possible team, and a play that's obviously not taught well. I'm of the opinion Bevell is good for minimum 3-5 of those a game. Vut, let's just say one for arguments sake. What would the reaction be if it was a player doing at minimum one negligent thing a game? What would Pete do ( See Cmike)? Something that leads to a hit on Wilson?

That screen play is Bevell. That's not me scapegoating are acting like a reactionary rube, this is what he is. He will throw out plays that simply aren't high-standard NFL coordinating. At least it's safe to say in this thread without a mouth breather coming in and assuming the criticism is ill informed.

Edit to Montana; No one needs validation via field gulls, that's not some magical credibility. If that's the case, then I'm Mike Mayock with as much stuff of mine they favorite or retweet.

Our screen plays are not well run and they are always run when behind in down and distance.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Edit to Montana; No one needs validation via field gulls...

Do you have ANY grasp on the concept of irony, Drax?

 

[pehawk]

Well, apparently you must have pictures coupled with criticisms, or else the Bevell brigade will come in saying it's execution. But, throw down and distance out, it's week 11, an offense still shouldn't be working out kinks on plays they stink at by now. They're just an abysmally coached screen team. Again, no pictures, but the Seahawks running a screen looks like lemurs dry humping an invalid.

 

[jammerhawk]

Where are the hot routes, the quick slants, the fast developing options for an instantly pressured QB?

Who is the dump off player if the team knows a blitz is coming?

Most of the blame is on the OC, but the blame is fairly spread around.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Remember when we sacked Aaron Rodgers 8 times in the first half, it happens to the best of them. Taking the sack was better than giving the Cardinals any turnovers. The blame should be spread out to everyone, i think we can agree that the playcalling has been lacking since the Rams game. In the Rams game, Wilson was able to throw the ball everywhere including the middle and he stood in the pocket, and did great running as well. I want that playcalling again. I think we play our offense like we play our defense, we show our hand and let them try and stop us, which at the moment for our offense isn't scaring anyone.