Concerns regarding the 49ers.

[Marvin49]

I dunno. I'm watching the Seahawks right now and it seems clear to me that they just have zero depth at all. Raiders just driving down the field time after time got TDs. You guys are in trouble.

49ers meanwhile just won 40-13, so obviously they are the greatest team of all time and on their way to 19-0 and their 6th Lombardi.

Obviously you can draw these conclusions from the preseason and any attempt to argue otherwise is just spin.



Seriously peoples, enough of taking preseason seriously. Means nothing. Thankfully real games about to start.

I don't know Marvin for the most part this weeks games kind of fall in line with everything being said.

The Seahawks ultimate strength is game planning as is Richard Sherman's. We are more likely to get smoked by unknowns than top shelf Vets. The QB's that have torched us were mostly unknowns, the RB's also and the receivers that have torched Sherman were also mostly unknowns. When there is game film it is a different story all together.

In this game against the Radiers we pretty obviously have no information on that team. I think there is also some level of expectation going in. The Raiders knew who they were facing and played up to the challenge. The Seahawks really had no idea of personnel as well as no reason to care and fairly obviously under estimated what the Raiders and Carr (SP) were capable of. In that regard we got caught with our pants down but this is where the preseason truly has no meaning. It's not like this is going to send us back to the drawing board scratching our heads wondering what the hell went wrong.

The Niners on the other hand had their best performance of the preseason and only real decent showing. The problem is unless you plan on starting Gabbert, it is meaningless because your starting unit never showed a single thing all pre-season and Gabbert right now looks better than Kaep.

It does help to bolster your confidence about depth but that is really about it.

This really is why preseason has no meaning. You still want to see something from your starting unit like we did even in that game when RW scored in 1:35 and was perfect but a single bad performance really doesn't mean anything. There is still things that can be learned in a meaningless loss. If your starting unit looks horrible all preseason then you should be worried. You guys look worse than last preseason and the problems are easy to point to in the O-line and QB.

You guys have a big test next week in Dallas. If you can't beat Dallas then you are in big trouble. Most have predicted them to be the worst in the NFC. You lose next week and nobody will be saying, dang, Dallas looks good.

If Seattle were to lose against GB that would not be nearly as much the case. Most would credit GB for being everything they thought they could be, Sure we would drop in the power rankings but the theme of that game would be how good GB looks not like you guys were the theme (talking nationally) would be how bad the Niners look.

Most important thing you said there is the bolded.

Are you seriously trying to explain away why Seattle had trouble with the Raiders? Really? Don't bother. I already know why. No prep. Same for all teams in all preseason games. Run vanilla schemes with no game planning.

As I've been saying from the beginning. PRESEASON MEANS NOTHING. The only people who say otherwise are in the media or fans who are looking to make a point about a team they love or a team they hate. That's it. Niners starting O has struggled all Preseason? Uh, they marched down the field on their first possession had third and 1 at the 10 or so when they brought in a RB who has since been released who couldn't get a yard on 2 attempts. Vs Denver they were Lloyd losing the ball in the sun and a missed field goal away from scoring. In SD, they had problems. No question....particularly in pass protection. 4 possessions and out halfway through the second while most teams played the starters into the 3rd.

All you can really judge in preseason is individual matchups. Even then, coaches put their players into positions with no help just to see how they perform. They are looking at how players perform in those circumstances. That is NOT in any way how they coach the regular season.

It means even less when it comes to starters, particularly on vet teams. Vet starters know this stuff doesn't count. They don't give 100% effort.

Last night in Oakland, the Raiders were playing to make a point to themselves against the SB champions. Seattle was looking to get through the last game without any injuries and get to the regular season.

Preseason. Means. Nothing.

 

[RichNhansom]

Does the number of fumbles Kaep has had in just 7 possessions worry you?

Also I can't look it up right now but seen a stat during the San Diego game that saod he had 8 and the didn't include the one they called wrong but didn't overturn because they said there wasn't a clear view of who recovered.

Has Kaep actually fumbled 9 times in 7 possessions?

 

[Marvin49]

Does the number of fumbles Kaep has had in just 7 possessions worry you?

Also I can't look it up right now but seen a stat during the San Diego game that saod he had 8 and the didn't include the one they called wrong but didn't overturn because they said there wasn't a clear view of who recovered.

Has Kaep actually fumbled 9 times in 7 possessions?

uh...no.

Dunno where you see that.

He fumbled twice...once when blindsided and once while running (that's the one with the review you are talking about).

Jeez...how can you even try to make any points about the starting O if you have watched so little that you think its possible he fumbled 9 times. LOL.

 

[RolandDeschain]

uh...no.

Dunno where you see that.

He fumbled twice...once when blindsided and once while running (that's the one with the review you are talking about).

Jeez...how can you even try to make any points about the starting O if you have watched so little that you think its possible he fumbled 9 times. LOL.

Maybe he was extrapolating his fumble rate based on watching him fumble twice in very short succession. :lol:

 

[Melencause]

Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless debate their level of concern for San Francisco's offense and whether the 49ers are still Super Bowl contenders. I usually don't have any love for these two clowns but...this IS a legit debate. Spin this as much as you want Whiners fans...the result will be the same (9-7).

[youtube]W1z50iMKvhk[/youtube]

Oh look yet another 49er thread, what a surprise.

Least we don't have a 150 page seahawks thread like 49ers forums.

Are you saying multiple 1-4 page threads is some how worse than multiple 50-150 page threads?

If so you think consolidation of threads makes 49ers fans better?

I'm just so lost with your complaint! Please explain your viewpoint!

 

[rideaducati]

Marvin can't help himself. That might actually apply for some of the people piling it on and I haven't seen any of the SF game but 40-13 sounds good. How much of that was your 1st team offense?

Almost sounds like they started Gabbert instead of Kaep. Sure beats the hell out of being smoked in your stadium opener I'd imagine.

[edit] I almost forgot. Congratulations!

Starters didn't play at all.

That wasn't my point tho. My point was about drawing conclusions from the preseason. I've been reading here for weeks about how the 49ers have no depth because it was on clear display in the preseason. Goes into the whole "Baalke sucks" lunacy I've been reading here for awhile. Last night was a really good night for those picks who will be counted on to make contributions. Tank Carradine, Quinton Dial, Chris Borland, Aaron Lynch, and Bruce Ellington all looked good.

Hell, Derek Carr was playing against a number of STARTERS for Seattle last night.

Does that mean I think Seattle is going to have issues with its starting D?

Hell freakin' No. It means preseason means nothing. As I've said all along.

I read last night that Seattle offense had scored on like 11 of 13 possessions or something like that. Gratz. Niners starting O has only played about SEVEN possessions in the preseason scoring twice (and missed a field goal on the third). 1 in the first game, 2 vs Denver, and 4 vs SD. That's it. Frank Gore has played a grand total of 5 snaps.

Did they struggle? Sure...not really in sync yet. It happens. Does struggling on seven total possessions in the preseason really mean anything? Come on...is that a serious question?

Baalke does suck and his picks finally played well against third string players. Congrats?

 

[Brahn]

Oh look yet another 49er thread, what a surprise.

We really should think about this guys. We are not doing things like they do over at the Webzone and that has at least one of the Niners fans that come over here up in arms. We need to be more like that forum because that is the forum he likes the most. Should we start by banning you for even having a counter argument like they do at the Zone? Will that make this place more at home for you?

I guess all we can do is sit back and watch our team try to go for back to back Superbowls., while making multiple posts about a 2nd place ball club. When we would be better off having 1 mega thread to poop in pertaining to a 2nd place ball club. Looks like you Niner fans win again!

 

[Marvin49]

Baalke does suck and his picks finally played well against third string players. Congrats?

As I've stated on many occasions...

...I applaud your consistency.

 

[Popeyejones]

uh...no.

Dunno where you see that.

He fumbled twice...once when blindsided and once while running (that's the one with the review you are talking about).

Jeez...how can you even try to make any points about the starting O if you have watched so little that you think its possible he fumbled 9 times. LOL.

Maybe he was extrapolating his fumble rate based on watching him fumble twice in very short succession. :lol:

:lol: Fair point.

It's like how some Hawks fans think Kaepernick is a turnover machine because they mostly only see him against the Hawks, against whom he legitimately has been a turnover machine. Kap had 8 ints and 3 fumbles last season, whereas Wilson had 9 ints and 8 fumbles. That's great for both of them (IMO Wilson's fumbles last year will end up being an anomaly) but if you're just watching Hawks games you'd think Kap so far is well below average in turning the ball over rather than being like Wilson so far and being well above average.

 

[Popeyejones]

edit: dbl post.

 

[Marvin49]

uh...no.

Dunno where you see that.

He fumbled twice...once when blindsided and once while running (that's the one with the review you are talking about).

Jeez...how can you even try to make any points about the starting O if you have watched so little that you think its possible he fumbled 9 times. LOL.

Maybe he was extrapolating his fumble rate based on watching him fumble twice in very short succession. :lol:

:lol: Fair point.

It's like how some Hawks fans think Kaepernick is a turnover machine because they mostly only see him against the Hawks, against whom he legitimately has been a turnover machine. Kap had 8 ints and 3 fumbles last season, whereas Wilson had 9 ints and 8 fumbles. That's great for both of them (IMO Wilson's fumbles last year will end up being an anomaly) but if you're just watching Hawks games you'd think Kap so far is well below average in turning the ball over rather than being like Wilson so far and being well above average.

...and 4 of those 8 INTs came against Seattle.

...so 4 INTs in the other 14 games COMBINED.

 

[Marvin49]

Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless debate their level of concern for San Francisco's offense and whether the 49ers are still Super Bowl contenders. I usually don't have any love for these two clowns but...this IS a legit debate. Spin this as much as you want Whiners fans...the result will be the same (9-7).

[youtube]W1z50iMKvhk[/youtube]

OMFG....LOL!!!!!!

I just finally watched the vid.

ROTFLMAO.....

You guys are leding ANY credence to this....after Smith said LUPATI (clear he only READ the name) and actually said GABBERT played well this preseason.

I have to watch Skips response...but OMG how do you guys even listen to this without laughing hysterically.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

uh...no.

Dunno where you see that.

He fumbled twice...once when blindsided and once while running (that's the one with the review you are talking about).

Jeez...how can you even try to make any points about the starting O if you have watched so little that you think its possible he fumbled 9 times. LOL.

Maybe he was extrapolating his fumble rate based on watching him fumble twice in very short succession. :lol:

:lol: Fair point.

It's like how some Hawks fans think Kaepernick is a turnover machine because they mostly only see him against the Hawks, against whom he legitimately has been a turnover machine. Kap had 8 ints and 3 fumbles last season, whereas Wilson had 9 ints and 8 fumbles. That's great for both of them (IMO Wilson's fumbles last year will end up being an anomaly) but if you're just watching Hawks games you'd think Kap so far is well below average in turning the ball over rather than being like Wilson so far and being well above average.

...and 4 of those 8 INTs came against Seattle.

...so 4 INTs in the other 14 games COMBINED.

I'm thinking he should have demanded a trade to the AFC instead of signing an extension with the 49ers.

 

[Scottemojo]

The Niners are most likely just fine, and if I change my opinion on that it won't be because of those idiots on ESPN.

 

[Marvin49]

Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless debate their level of concern for San Francisco's offense and whether the 49ers are still Super Bowl contenders. I usually don't have any love for these two clowns but...this IS a legit debate. Spin this as much as you want Whiners fans...the result will be the same (9-7).

[youtube]W1z50iMKvhk[/youtube]

OMFG....LOL!!!!!!

I just finally watched the vid.

ROTFLMAO.....

You guys are leding ANY credence to this....after Smith said LUPATI (clear he only READ the name) and actually said GABBERT played well this preseason.

I have to watch Skips response...but OMG how do you guys even listen to this without laughing hysterically.

and now just watched Skips part. LOL.

This is the kind of BS that makes me ignore ESPN these days.

He says he's no better than RGIII this preseason. RGIII has a 46 rating. Kaps is 69. If Brandon Lloyd makes the catch vs Denver that was right there, Kaps rating is 95.

Jeez. so much drama over nothing.

 

[Marvin49]

Maybe he was extrapolating his fumble rate based on watching him fumble twice in very short succession. :lol:

:lol: Fair point.

It's like how some Hawks fans think Kaepernick is a turnover machine because they mostly only see him against the Hawks, against whom he legitimately has been a turnover machine. Kap had 8 ints and 3 fumbles last season, whereas Wilson had 9 ints and 8 fumbles. That's great for both of them (IMO Wilson's fumbles last year will end up being an anomaly) but if you're just watching Hawks games you'd think Kap so far is well below average in turning the ball over rather than being like Wilson so far and being well above average.

...and 4 of those 8 INTs came against Seattle.

...so 4 INTs in the other 14 games COMBINED.

I'm thinking he should have demanded a trade to the AFC instead of signing an extension with the 49ers.

LOL.

That one thing I really can't argue with. Seattle right now has Kaps number. No other team has done to him what they do. Has a lot to do with those defenders (secondary and edge rushers in particular) and that stadium. As it stands right now, he's a different guy vs Seattle. Then again, a lot of QBs can say the same thing.

 

[loafoftatupu]

I am calling it now. The Niners are winning the Super Bowl, the Hawks will be 6-10.

Those two pud knockers on ESPN are so wrong everytime they open their mouth it can't be any other way.

We have just been officially cursed. I always laughed at their inability to actually apply knowledge from watching football teams play. These guys rely on the work and opinions of other idiots rather than reality when they make their comments. Oh, once in a while they refer to some mundane stat.

There is little to be taken from the preseason. Sure, a clicking 1st unit offense can provide a little insight, but even that is a reach because no defense does anything too complex in the preseason and especially when all of them are missing regular starters. These guys refer to the preseason like it has any bearing at all.

I put it this way, even if K-Choke struggled at passing in games last year, the Niners were still 12-4 and the only real true competition for the Hawks. That hasn't changed. Injuries and suspension could have an impact, but as a whole I wouldn't be surprised to see the Niners and Hawks separated by a single game come week 17.

 

[Popeyejones]

LOL.

That one thing I really can't argue with. Seattle right now has Kaps number. No other team has done to him what they do. Has a lot to do with those defenders (secondary and edge rushers in particular) and that stadium. As it stands right now, he's a different guy vs Seattle. Then again, a lot of QBs can say the same thing.

IMO it's a combination of five things:

1) Seattle has the best defense in the NFL, and if they're doing their job the opposing QB SHOULD look mediocre or worse. The Hawks pass D made QBs much better than Kap (e.g. Brees and Peyton) look like hot crap too. They've been historically great.

2) Small sample size. By way of example, Wilson had a five game stretch toward the end of the season and through the playoffs that are worse than any stretch Kap has ever had playing football. That doesn't mean that at this point Wilson isn't a better QB than Kap, though. (small sample sizes are fun, but don't mean much).

3) The fanbase in Seattle has been more effective than any fanbase in memory at being deliberately disruptive to opposing offenses, and the 9ers have been particularly susceptible to this given their reliance on multiple shifts and picking one of three plays at the line (which they've partially moved away from, both because of the delay of game penalties that resulted and because of Seattle, IMO).

4) The teams are rivals and we're posting on a Hawks forum (e.g. we're at the only place in the world in which Kap has had seven or eight fumbles this preseason, Brooks is 20 pounds overweight, and the 9ers have been about to fall to 7-9 for three years running).

5) After having 60-80% likelihood of winning in the NFCC at different points through three quarters, Kap had three turnovers in the 4th quarter of the NFCC. He had as many turnovers in the 4th quarter of the NFCC as he does in his 5 and 3/4 other playoff games combined. If your projected to win in the NFCC and your QB has 3 TOs in the 4th quarter, that's an anchor that's going to stick with people for obvious reasons.

Of course I'm rooting for Kap to perform better against the Hawks, but if he's not comparatively struggling against the Hawks compared to other teams (particularly in Seattle), then something is wrong with Hawks. I think we can expect some regression to the mean (he won't be as bad as he has been), but if the 9ers are beating the Hawks through the air, either the Hawks defense has fallen apart (also very, very, very unlikely) or Kap is the best QB in the NFL (very, very, very unlikely).

 

[KitsapGuy]

 

[Laloosh]

Marvin can't help himself. That might actually apply for some of the people piling it on and I haven't seen any of the SF game but 40-13 sounds good. How much of that was your 1st team offense?

Almost sounds like they started Gabbert instead of Kaep. Sure beats the hell out of being smoked in your stadium opener I'd imagine.

[edit] I almost forgot. Congratulations!

Starters didn't play at all.

That wasn't my point tho. My point was about drawing conclusions from the preseason. I've been reading here for weeks about how the 49ers have no depth because it was on clear display in the preseason. Goes into the whole "Baalke sucks" lunacy I've been reading here for awhile. Last night was a really good night for those picks who will be counted on to make contributions. Tank Carradine, Quinton Dial, Chris Borland, Aaron Lynch, and Bruce Ellington all looked good.

Hell, Derek Carr was playing against a number of STARTERS for Seattle last night.

Does that mean I think Seattle is going to have issues with its starting D?

Hell freakin' No. It means preseason means nothing. As I've said all along.

I read last night that Seattle offense had scored on like 11 of 13 possessions or something like that. Gratz. Niners starting O has only played about SEVEN possessions in the preseason scoring twice (and missed a field goal on the third). 1 in the first game, 2 vs Denver, and 4 vs SD. That's it. Frank Gore has played a grand total of 5 snaps.

Did they struggle? Sure...not really in sync yet. It happens. Does struggling on seven total possessions in the preseason really mean anything? Come on...is that a serious question?

Marv, you kill me sometimes lol. Did you just ask yourself a question and answer it as though I had asked it.

It's funny enough that you cherry pick posts to debunk and imply that every poster in the thread is guilty of making the point that you're arguing against but now you're arguing against posts that weren't even made. I didn't watch the video in the OP but the OP did point out that SF's offense was the point of emphasis.

[Marvining]
That said, how did your first team offense do in the game that you're using to debunk a point that was not made in the thread? Oh, they didn't play?

Gabbert must have been amazing. What, he went 4/11 for 60 yards? So the third stringer was lights out? Obviously SF doesn't have depth issues and the OP's emphasis on SF's first team offense struggling are completely debunked.
[/Marvining]

Most people don't believe that the preseason is indicative of success or failure in the regular season. Rival fan bases do take joy in the struggles of their opponents however and we're a pretty joyous bunch at the moment.