Cowherd: Seattle Owes Russ

[hawksincebirth]

and yet last season was the 2nd best statistically of his career...

Why are people who can use basic understandings of stats "Homers" or "haters?"

Is this a common fall back for those who cannot articulate their opinion without substantiating it?

or just trolling?

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

Another valid point ignored by too many.

At the end of the day are the Seahawks a legit playoff threat? Last season they weren't even close. The season before they were more pretender than legit. The downward trend is clear to anyone willing to look at the situation honestly.

The first game was pretty sucky. If the next game repeats that performance, and then the third, etc., more and more will be willing to share their frustrations openly. (reverse bandwagon effect)

Keep providing your perspective. It's both valued and needed.

They were two missed field goals from being a playoff team. your post either lacks information or is basic trolling.

Thats the point being missed, and being missed by you.

Not sure if its misinformation by design, trolling or your posts really are just that far off base

They were also a few lucky bounces that went our way that could us easily be 5-11 see cooper cupp

 

[Uncle Si]

I dont think it's stats in a vacuum. You're choosing to look at Brees last year, but forgetting the number of years his teams did not make the playoffs. By your logic, does that not make Brees at fault for those seasons?

That's not only looking at facts in a vacuum, its hand selecting those that fit a narrow perspective.

Brees is a Hall of famer. Russ is a very good QB. Neither are faultless. But neither, even when their teams were poor, were the reasons why they didnt make the playoffs

 

[Uncle Si]

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

Another valid point ignored by too many.

At the end of the day are the Seahawks a legit playoff threat? Last season they weren't even close. The season before they were more pretender than legit. The downward trend is clear to anyone willing to look at the situation honestly.

The first game was pretty sucky. If the next game repeats that performance, and then the third, etc., more and more will be willing to share their frustrations openly. (reverse bandwagon effect)

Keep providing your perspective. It's both valued and needed.

They were two missed field goals from being a playoff team. your post either lacks information or is basic trolling.

Thats the point being missed, and being missed by you.

Not sure if its misinformation by design, trolling or your posts really are just that far off base

They were also a few lucky bounces that went our way that could us easily be 5-11 see cooper cupp

They were a few lucky bounces from losing 4 more games?

Come on...

 

[hawksincebirth]

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

See Drew Brees...

So... when he's slinging it all over the field you don't see that football.. just, well, other football? and that's because of rules? or something? Wilson's stats weren't on paper. he got them on the football field.

Your post makes no sense. If you're unhappy with some things that Wilson does that puts the team in a difficult position, fair enough, then state those things.

Is he running too much? Not enough?

How many yards outside the pocket does he get over sacks taken?

Be interesting to see

Drew brees lost on a last second miracle last year or he may have got to the bowl last year first and foremost.
We missed the playoffs, won’t be in it this year either.
I’ve made it clear what the issues with Russ are, and many posters have
Wilson had a great season on paper and in a few games but how fun was that team to watch ? They improve in the red zone ? You keep wanting to throw out stats in a vacuum.

Is a kicker shanking it multiple times the inverse of a miracle?

What about the games we could of lost , you subtract those toss up games or cooper cupp doesn’t drop a pass . Or Houston or a few other games.. we could of easily finished 5-11

 

[mrt144]

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

Another valid point ignored by too many.

At the end of the day are the Seahawks a legit playoff threat? Last season they weren't even close. The season before they were more pretender than legit. The downward trend is clear to anyone willing to look at the situation honestly.

The first game was pretty sucky. If the next game repeats that performance, and then the third, etc., more and more will be willing to share their frustrations openly. (reverse bandwagon effect)

Keep providing your perspective. It's both valued and needed.

They were two missed field goals from being a playoff team. your post either lacks information or is basic trolling.

Thats the point being missed, and being missed by you.

Not sure if its misinformation by design, trolling or your posts really are just that far off base

They were also a few lucky bounces that went our way that could us easily be 5-11 see cooper cupp

So long discussion short, RW has to be great because the rest of the team couldnt win at the margins like in seasons past. And somehow thats RWs fault for taking a 22 mil APY salary. Nevermind the left hand hitting itself repeatedly with a hammer.

 

[hawksincebirth]

I dont think it's stats in a vacuum. You're choosing to look at Brees last year, but forgetting the number of years his teams did not make the playoffs. By your logic, does that not make Brees at fault for those seasons?

That's not only looking at facts in a vacuum, its hand selecting those that fit a narrow perspective.

Brees is a Hall of famer. Russ is a very good QB. Neither are faultless. But neither, even when their teams were poor, were the reasons why they didnt make the playoffs

The only narrow perspectives are the ones that can’t see the writing on the wall.
I addressed this in my previous posts, that is where we are headed now. No defense , good quarterback, mediocrity.
Could Russ of played better in much win game ? Is there nothing he can improve on ? Maybe beat a blitz with his arm ?

I’m looking at brees as a quarterback, your looking at Wilson as a god who has no flaws and is perfect
Pound for pound Wilson isn’t brees . As a quarterback, not to say he couldn’t learn these things but it’s Wilson’s 7th year.
What happens when we resign Wilson for record money and he loses a step or gets hurt and loses his agility.. can he sit in the pocket and beat the blitz ?

 

[hawksincebirth]

and yet last season was the 2nd best statistically of his career...

Why are people who can use basic understandings of stats "Homers" or "haters?"

Is this a common fall back for those who cannot articulate their opinion without substantiating it?

or just trolling?

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

Another valid point ignored by too many.

At the end of the day are the Seahawks a legit playoff threat? Last season they weren't even close. The season before they were more pretender than legit. The downward trend is clear to anyone willing to look at the situation honestly.

The first game was pretty sucky. If the next game repeats that performance, and then the third, etc., more and more will be willing to share their frustrations openly. (reverse bandwagon effect)

Keep providing your perspective. It's both valued and needed.

Very great post, thanks

 

[semiahmoo]

and yet last season was the 2nd best statistically of his career...

Why are people who can use basic understandings of stats "Homers" or "haters?"

Is this a common fall back for those who cannot articulate their opinion without substantiating it?

or just trolling?

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

Another valid point ignored by too many.

At the end of the day are the Seahawks a legit playoff threat? Last season they weren't even close. The season before they were more pretender than legit. The downward trend is clear to anyone willing to look at the situation honestly.

The first game was pretty sucky. If the next game repeats that performance, and then the third, etc., more and more will be willing to share their frustrations openly. (reverse bandwagon effect)

Keep providing your perspective. It's both valued and needed.

Very great post, thanks

You bet. It's refreshing to hear perspectives that go beyond the too narrow "don't dare speak ill of the team" habits of some. We all love the Seahawks but it's been a franchise in decline for a good few years now and RW has to be part of that conversation or it's not an honest one.

That said, I blame Pete Carroll more than anyone for the overall decline.

If both were to leave after this season I'd be okay with that, though, I know some in here would disagree strongly and that's okay by me as well...

 

[mrt144]

I dont think it's stats in a vacuum. You're choosing to look at Brees last year, but forgetting the number of years his teams did not make the playoffs. By your logic, does that not make Brees at fault for those seasons?

That's not only looking at facts in a vacuum, its hand selecting those that fit a narrow perspective.

Brees is a Hall of famer. Russ is a very good QB. Neither are faultless. But neither, even when their teams were poor, were the reasons why they didnt make the playoffs

The only narrow perspectives are the ones that can’t see the writing on the wall.
I addressed this in my previous posts, that is where we are headed now. No defense , good quarterback, mediocrity.
Could Russ of played better in much win game ? Is there nothing he can improve on ? Maybe beat a blitz with his arm ?

I’m looking at brees as a quarterback, your looking at Wilson as a god who has no flaws and is perfect
Pound for pound Wilson isn’t brees . As a quarterback, not to say he couldn’t learn these things but it’s Wilson’s 7th year.
What happens when we resign Wilson for record money and he loses a step or gets hurt and loses his agility.. can he sit in the pocket and beat the blitz ?

Youre beating a strawman in what others believe RW to be. Stop it. The point of invoking Brees is that even superior QBs dont engender success in a vacuum and putting the Breesian standard as the baseline of where RW should be right now, still leaves tons of questions open about why the Hawks cant win at the margins.

Seriously, this whole discussion seems predicated on the subconscious admission that the FO painted themselves into a corner whether you think highly or lowly of RW.

 

[semiahmoo]

I dont think it's stats in a vacuum. You're choosing to look at Brees last year, but forgetting the number of years his teams did not make the playoffs. By your logic, does that not make Brees at fault for those seasons?

That's not only looking at facts in a vacuum, its hand selecting those that fit a narrow perspective.

Brees is a Hall of famer. Russ is a very good QB. Neither are faultless. But neither, even when their teams were poor, were the reasons why they didnt make the playoffs

The only narrow perspectives are the ones that can’t see the writing on the wall.
I addressed this in my previous posts, that is where we are headed now. No defense , good quarterback, mediocrity.
Could Russ of played better in much win game ? Is there nothing he can improve on ? Maybe beat a blitz with his arm ?

I’m looking at brees as a quarterback, your looking at Wilson as a god who has no flaws and is perfect
Pound for pound Wilson isn’t brees . As a quarterback, not to say he couldn’t learn these things but it’s Wilson’s 7th year.
What happens when we resign Wilson for record money and he loses a step or gets hurt and loses his agility.. can he sit in the pocket and beat the blitz ?

Youre beating a strawman in what others believe RW to be. Stop it. The point of invoking Brees is that even superior QBs dont engender success in a vacuum and putting the Breesian standard as the baseline of where RW should be right now, still leaves tons of questions open about why the Hawks cant win at the margins.

Seriously, this whole discussion seems predicated on the subconscious admission that the FO painted themselves into a corner whether you think highly or lowly of RW.

Well said. As for those 'margins' you speak of - that goes to coaching and our coaching/locker room/sideline vibe has been off for a while now.

I've said it before but am happy to say it again - starting a few years back and watching Training Camp it was clear we had some serious problems. The decline in respect afforded to the coaching staff by many of the then the leading players was evident for all to see. It was far too chaotic. I lost count of how many eye rolls and snickering were sent Carroll's way by many of the vets and even some of the rooks. They were not buying what he was selling one damn bit and it's gotten worse not better with each subsequent Training Camp.

 

[hawksincebirth]

Another valid point ignored by too many.

At the end of the day are the Seahawks a legit playoff threat? Last season they weren't even close. The season before they were more pretender than legit. The downward trend is clear to anyone willing to look at the situation honestly.

The first game was pretty sucky. If the next game repeats that performance, and then the third, etc., more and more will be willing to share their frustrations openly. (reverse bandwagon effect)

Keep providing your perspective. It's both valued and needed.

They were two missed field goals from being a playoff team. your post either lacks information or is basic trolling.

Thats the point being missed, and being missed by you.

Not sure if its misinformation by design, trolling or your posts really are just that far off base

They were also a few lucky bounces that went our way that could us easily be 5-11 see cooper cupp

So long discussion short, RW has to be great because the rest of the team couldnt win at the margins like in seasons past. And somehow thats RWs fault for taking a 22 mil APY salary. Nevermind the left hand hitting itself repeatedly with a hammer.

Sorry I expect an elite qb to have better than a 24th ranked offense

 

[mrt144]

They were two missed field goals from being a playoff team. your post either lacks information or is basic trolling.

Thats the point being missed, and being missed by you.

Not sure if its misinformation by design, trolling or your posts really are just that far off base

They were also a few lucky bounces that went our way that could us easily be 5-11 see cooper cupp

So long discussion short, RW has to be great because the rest of the team couldnt win at the margins like in seasons past. And somehow thats RWs fault for taking a 22 mil APY salary. Nevermind the left hand hitting itself repeatedly with a hammer.

Sorry I expect an elite qb to have better than a 24th ranked offense

Why are you apologizing to me? You should be apologizing to yourself for your own myopia and tilting at windmills.

RW isnt elite, and? Sucks for the Hawks to have no answers this season.

 

[hawksincebirth]

I dont think it's stats in a vacuum. You're choosing to look at Brees last year, but forgetting the number of years his teams did not make the playoffs. By your logic, does that not make Brees at fault for those seasons?

That's not only looking at facts in a vacuum, its hand selecting those that fit a narrow perspective.

Brees is a Hall of famer. Russ is a very good QB. Neither are faultless. But neither, even when their teams were poor, were the reasons why they didnt make the playoffs

The only narrow perspectives are the ones that can’t see the writing on the wall.
I addressed this in my previous posts, that is where we are headed now. No defense , good quarterback, mediocrity.
Could Russ of played better in much win game ? Is there nothing he can improve on ? Maybe beat a blitz with his arm ?

I’m looking at brees as a quarterback, your looking at Wilson as a god who has no flaws and is perfect
Pound for pound Wilson isn’t brees . As a quarterback, not to say he couldn’t learn these things but it’s Wilson’s 7th year.
What happens when we resign Wilson for record money and he loses a step or gets hurt and loses his agility.. can he sit in the pocket and beat the blitz ?

Youre beating a strawman in what others believe RW to be. Stop it. The point of invoking Brees is that even superior QBs dont engender success in a vacuum and putting the Breesian standard as the baseline of where RW should be right now, still leaves tons of questions open about why the Hawks cant win at the margins.

Seriously, this whole discussion seems predicated on the subconscious admission that the FO painted themselves into a corner whether you think highly or lowly of RW.

I was literally told in post prior what I believed .. word for word . Lol the straw men posts are the ones in response literally. I never once said this whole team success is on Wilson , I’ve stayed over and over what I believe he needs to work on but yet I get responses like this that start with attacks .. the last part of your post is my long standing point about the direction of this team.

 

[hawksincebirth]

They were also a few lucky bounces that went our way that could us easily be 5-11 see cooper cupp

So long discussion short, RW has to be great because the rest of the team couldnt win at the margins like in seasons past. And somehow thats RWs fault for taking a 22 mil APY salary. Nevermind the left hand hitting itself repeatedly with a hammer.

Sorry I expect an elite qb to have better than a 24th ranked offense

Why are you apologizing to me? You should be apologizing to yourself for your own myopia and tilting at windmills.

RW isnt elite, and? Sucks for the Hawks to have no answers this season.

Again more personal attacks allowed by mods .. sheesh seems when you can’t argue facts just call names. Your post added so much to this forum it’s awesome :2thumbs: awesome job mods .. told ya #doublestandards

 

[mrt144]

So long discussion short, RW has to be great because the rest of the team couldnt win at the margins like in seasons past. And somehow thats RWs fault for taking a 22 mil APY salary. Nevermind the left hand hitting itself repeatedly with a hammer.

Sorry I expect an elite qb to have better than a 24th ranked offense

Why are you apologizing to me? You should be apologizing to yourself for your own myopia and tilting at windmills.

RW isnt elite, and? Sucks for the Hawks to have no answers this season.

Again more personal attacks allowed by mods .. sheesh seems when you can’t argue facts just call names. Your post added so much to this forum it’s awesome :2thumbs: awesome job mods .. told ya #doublestandards

Oh boooho, someone told you youre approaching the fate of the team from the antithesis of a holistic viewpoint. Toughen up.

 

[hawksincebirth]

Oh boooho, someone told you youre approaching the fate of the team from the antithesis of a holistic viewpoint. Toughen up.

I’m more than tough buddy , I can handle it. I was proving a point maybe start at the beginning of threads before you jump in face first into a pool of ignorance

 

[chris98251]

Mods are not going to step in and defend you for someone attacking your post, I see no name calling, or personalization, write better posts if you don't want to be challenged and not questioned.

 

[chris98251]

They were two missed field goals from being a playoff team. your post either lacks information or is basic trolling.

Thats the point being missed, and being missed by you.

Not sure if its misinformation by design, trolling or your posts really are just that far off base

They were also a few lucky bounces that went our way that could us easily be 5-11 see cooper cupp

So long discussion short, RW has to be great because the rest of the team couldnt win at the margins like in seasons past. And somehow thats RWs fault for taking a 22 mil APY salary. Nevermind the left hand hitting itself repeatedly with a hammer.

Sorry I expect an elite qb to have better than a 24th ranked offense

How many QB's can be 24th in offense almost single handedly, or 87 percent of the offense if I remember the number correctly.

 

[hawksincebirth]

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

Another valid point ignored by too many.

At the end of the day are the Seahawks a legit playoff threat? Last season they weren't even close. The season before they were more pretender than legit. The downward trend is clear to anyone willing to look at the situation honestly.

The first game was pretty sucky. If the next game repeats that performance, and then the third, etc., more and more will be willing to share their frustrations openly. (reverse bandwagon effect)

Keep providing your perspective. It's both valued and needed.

Very great post, thanks

You bet. It's refreshing to hear perspectives that go beyond the too narrow "don't dare speak ill of the team" habits of some. We all love the Seahawks but it's been a franchise in decline for a good few years now and RW has to be part of that conversation or it's not an honest one.

That said, I blame Pete Carroll more than anyone for the overall decline.

If both were to leave after this season I'd be okay with that, though, I know some in here would disagree strongly and that's okay by me as well...

You always blame the leader when the team fails, pete gets 99.9% off blame to me

 

[Uncle Si]

I dont think it's stats in a vacuum. You're choosing to look at Brees last year, but forgetting the number of years his teams did not make the playoffs. By your logic, does that not make Brees at fault for those seasons?

That's not only looking at facts in a vacuum, its hand selecting those that fit a narrow perspective.

Brees is a Hall of famer. Russ is a very good QB. Neither are faultless. But neither, even when their teams were poor, were the reasons why they didnt make the playoffs

The only narrow perspectives are the ones that can’t see the writing on the wall.
I addressed this in my previous posts, that is where we are headed now. No defense , good quarterback, mediocrity.
Could Russ of played better in much win game ? Is there nothing he can improve on ? Maybe beat a blitz with his arm ?

I’m looking at brees as a quarterback, your looking at Wilson as a god who has no flaws and is perfect
Pound for pound Wilson isn’t brees . As a quarterback, not to say he couldn’t learn these things but it’s Wilson’s 7th year.
What happens when we resign Wilson for record money and he loses a step or gets hurt and loses his agility.. can he sit in the pocket and beat the blitz ?

I'm looking at Russ as God?

I went from "using stats" to "hero worship" by pointing out the logical dlsw in your argument about wins as a barometer of success in comparison to another qb

"A point made and missed so.many times" as another repetitive poster likes to invoke