Davis to start over Carson?

[Thepeelsessions]

As much as I loved Carson last year, I need to see Pete and John go after a high round RB.

Obviously this would entail either trading Earl for a high round pick, or trading down in the first to score a 2nd or 3rd.

Bottom line, this revolving door of RB by committee because no one can stay healthy and/or be productive enough to take the role and be the workhorse we need him to be.........................has to stop.

You wanna be a ball control punishing nasty pound the rock type of team on offense? Then you find a punishing nasty pound the rock running back.

Agree 110%

 

[hieroglyphics]

Wish we could have gotten Jeremy Hill for $1.5 million like the Pats did. A guy like that needed a change of scenery but is clearly the type of back who could do well with the right circumstances.

 

[chris98251]

#2 We are drafting one or two RBs and so neither Davis or Carson will be our starter.

The crazy part is they've drafted seven RBs in the past five years. In terms of draft capital that's picks in rounds 2, 3, 5, 5, 7, 7, 7.

It's not nearlyas bad as the capital they've burned at the WR position since they let Tate leave (which is a straight up disaster), but if you factor in the capital they've spent at the position (and that some of these guys have gone on to be useful pieces on other teams -- Spencer Ware and Alex Collins) I think the takeaway is that their problems in the run game probably aren't going to be answered by drafting even more RBs.

I disagree. Not sure I would bother with the 5th & 7th round picks. How many starting running backs in the NFL have been 5th/7th round picks?

If you look at the 10 ten RBs in yards last year...
5 were 1st round picks
2 were 2nd round picks
1 3rd
1 5th
1 UFA

Tells you if you want a stud you need to draft a stud and not hope you get lucky with a later round pick. The three best RBs in Seahawks history were all 1st round guys. This is the best RB draft in a long time. Draft a RB in the 1st and be done with it. You can then invest elsewhere and have a great RB for 6-8 years.

That's complete hogwash, it depends on the line, the system and the OC, over the years there have been many good RB's taken past round three, there have been even many drafted 1 - 3 that failed miserably, that's like saying you can only get a good starting WR, or QB in the first round.

 

[Rat]

#2 We are drafting one or two RBs and so neither Davis or Carson will be our starter.

The crazy part is they've drafted seven RBs in the past five years. In terms of draft capital that's picks in rounds 2, 3, 5, 5, 7, 7, 7.

It's not nearlyas bad as the capital they've burned at the WR position since they let Tate leave (which is a straight up disaster), but if you factor in the capital they've spent at the position (and that some of these guys have gone on to be useful pieces on other teams -- Spencer Ware and Alex Collins) I think the takeaway is that their problems in the run game probably aren't going to be answered by drafting even more RBs.

I disagree. Not sure I would bother with the 5th & 7th round picks. How many starting running backs in the NFL have been 5th/7th round picks?

If you look at the 10 ten RBs in yards last year...
5 were 1st round picks
2 were 2nd round picks
1 3rd
1 5th
1 UFA

Tells you if you want a stud you need to draft a stud and not hope you get lucky with a later round pick. The three best RBs in Seahawks history were all 1st round guys. This is the best RB draft in a long time. Draft a RB in the 1st and be done with it. You can then invest elsewhere and have a great RB for 6-8 years.

If you go back one more year, just one of the top 10 RBs in rushing yards was a first rounder (Ezekiel Elliott), and only two were second rounders (LeVeon Bell, LeSean McCoy).

I don't think RBs are as interchangeable as many seem to (there's a reason that Marshawn Lynch was so much better than Christine Michael running behind the same line), but more teams are hitting on RBs later than they are at other positions. I'd strongly consider a RB in the first two rounds this year (people are really sleeping on Sony Michel IMO), depending on who is there, but I don't think we necessarily have to either.

 

[vin.couve12]

I don't think people are sleeping on Michel anymore. About 3 weeks ago Mayock said he went back and watched the tape again and was then comparing him to Kamara. Michel is really pretty NFL ready. Chubb, his teammate, is just as good of a runner, but hasn't been involved in the passing game. That matters to NFL teams.

It will also matter when Pete is reminded that he can leave Everson Griffin alone and have Carson stonewall him. Stuff like that REALLY matters. Then on top of that he's a nice pass catcher.

Davis has hit the weight pile really hard this offseason, but even still, giving him the first rep in camp is sort of a technicality and courtesy for finishing the season with us. After that first carry, it's on.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I personally don’t buy into the Chris Carson hype.

He never showed anything in college, hence his draft position in the 7th round. In the 4 games that he played in for the Seahawks last season, he totally 208 yards and a 4.2 yard average over those 4 which is fine. But can he sustain that over 16 games? I'm not entirely convinced. His best game on an ‘average yards per carry’ basis was week 1 against the Packers where he averaged 6.5 yards but only had 6 carries. He was coming in with fresh legs and didn’t prove any sustained workload.

The one game where he did sustain a good workload as well as producing decent yards is week 2 vs the 49ers where he carried the ball 20 times for 93 yards (4.7 average). If he could keep that up, I’d totally buy in. But were talking about 1 game (against a team that finished 22nd in run defense). That isn’t selling it to me at all.

I’m not saying Chris Carson isn’t going to amount to anything for Seattle, he very possibly could. But when looking at actual evidence, I struggle to be ‘all in’ on him. Remember when Thomas Rawls looked fantastic in his rookie year? Now look where he is. Currently on the street still searching for a team. He will very likely remain unsigned until June where he wouldn’t count towards another teams comp pick formulas.

Three points here.

1) Chris Carson looked terrific on tape. He ran well, showed explosiveness and cutback ability, pass protected very strongly. He's a creator. Judging a RB by their YPC and college history is not a complete analysis.

Carson is not going to get a fair trial with the fans after his ankle injury. Most people have given up on him. But that doesn't mean Pete and John deployed him as starter for no reason. He went into a 7-man RB competition and won it decisively behind some terrible run blocking.

2) Thomas Rawls DID look fantastic in the 2015. It wasn't fools' gold. He was great. Overachieving, maybe, but what an overachiever. Fans had come to trust his carries just like Lynch. Then he got injured, the injury went to his head, and combined with Seattle jettisoning a left tackle that a lot of fans wanted gone and declining on the OL further from 2015, he fell off the cliff. That doesn't automatically make him a good comparison to Carson.

Perhaps Carson is never the same after his injury, either, but there are plenty of NFL players who come back just fine from injuries. We'll have to see. I, too, suspect the Seahawks will draft another RB, though it probably won't be who fans want it to be, nor will it come where fans want it to come.

3) Davis isn't a complete RB prospect like Carson. He's like McKissic, a relief/gadget player, albeit a valuable one given his talent on screens.

 

[ImTheScientist]

#2 We are drafting one or two RBs and so neither Davis or Carson will be our starter.

The crazy part is they've drafted seven RBs in the past five years. In terms of draft capital that's picks in rounds 2, 3, 5, 5, 7, 7, 7.

It's not nearlyas bad as the capital they've burned at the WR position since they let Tate leave (which is a straight up disaster), but if you factor in the capital they've spent at the position (and that some of these guys have gone on to be useful pieces on other teams -- Spencer Ware and Alex Collins) I think the takeaway is that their problems in the run game probably aren't going to be answered by drafting even more RBs.

I disagree. Not sure I would bother with the 5th & 7th round picks. How many starting running backs in the NFL have been 5th/7th round picks?

If you look at the 10 ten RBs in yards last year...
5 were 1st round picks
2 were 2nd round picks
1 3rd
1 5th
1 UFA

Tells you if you want a stud you need to draft a stud and not hope you get lucky with a later round pick. The three best RBs in Seahawks history were all 1st round guys. This is the best RB draft in a long time. Draft a RB in the 1st and be done with it. You can then invest elsewhere and have a great RB for 6-8 years.

That's complete hogwash, it depends on the line, the system and the OC, over the years there have been many good RB's taken past round three, there have been even many drafted 1 - 3 that failed miserably, that's like saying you can only get a good starting WR, or QB in the first round.

Disagree. Data shows your probability of hitting on good starting players increases with round. Higher the round/pick the lower the probability of a player busting. So the data says invest in a player or position in round 1 and you have a better shot of getting a good starting player.

 

[SeaChat]

Does anybody feel comfortable with Chris Carson and Mike Davis being our 2 main running backs? Yuk.

I think behind an effective offensive line that both Chris and Mike have demonstrated they can be effective. Every RB we had going back to, and including Marshawn Lynch, injured themselves, trying to make something happen for us. these had more success than the others. If they can make something from nothing happen, just imagine what they do behind a real offensive line.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Does anybody feel comfortable with Chris Carson and Mike Davis being our 2 main running backs? Yuk.

I think behind an effective offensive line that both Chris and Mike have demonstrated they can be effective. Every RB we had going back to, and including Marshawn Lynch, injured themselves, trying to make something happen for us. these had more success than the others. If they can make something from nothing happen, just imagine what they do behind a real offensive line.

Lol. Any RB behind an effective line can be effective but the question is, can they be special? Lynch was special when he was leading the league in yards after contact for us. Yeah he got hurt, but he was pretty much done at that point anyways. Davis and Carson seem like backup, relief guys for any other NFL team, but they are our main guys. That doesnt make me feel real good going into next season. Somebody said if you want a stud at a certain position, then draft a stud. I agree with this and the Seahawks have a chance at doing that for a RB. This is the Seahawks though we are talking about. Instead of drafting a RB, which I feel we really need, they will probably draft another CB or something.

 

[Northhawk]

Honestly, I don't see how either could be considered anything other than back-ups. I believe the OL will be slightly better this season (it can't be worse) but these two backs look average at best given the limited amount we've seen. If Pete is rebooting the offensive scheme to be more focused on the run, I don't see these two being the answer.

 

[vin.couve12]

Rawls, the supposed player who was going to be or WAS "better than Lynch" is signing with the Jets.

 

[nrayorr]

If the run blocking improves, whoever is back there is going to look a heck of a lot better.

:ditto:

 

[HawkerD]

Not one mention of C. J. Prosise in this entire thread. Hmmmmm?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It sucks how injury prone he has been. When he plays, he's a pretty damn good talent. Very versatile player.

 

[olyfan63]

Carson looked like a legit NFL #1 RB in the limited sample. Especially behind the crap OL.
Dude came out of nowhere and won the competition and looked solid doing it. If healthy, he looked capable of carrying the load. Lots of IFs everywhere this year for our RBs.

The Broncos in the Shanahan/Elway days seemed to find 1500 yard rushers every time they sneezed, 1996-2002, with 4th-6th rounders usually in the lead role. So there are NFL RB precedents where "nobodies" become "The Guy". Not saying it can/will happen with Carson, just that it's not unheard of.

I think the current reality is that so many RBs get injured and there is a limited shelf life, so teams better have a plan B, and a Plan C going into the season, and spread out the work. Carson, if healthy, looks like a great option to have in the stable.

 

[jammerhawk]

What has Prosise done to deserve mentioning? He needs to show the team he can stay healthy or his career here is over. Think he’s clearly now on the bubble with the addition of Penny who the team will want to use more than him. Davis is likely on the bubble as well if Carson is healthy.

 

[King Dog]

I really like the idea of Prosise. It's just hard for me to see cutting a McKissic in favor of him when we all know Prosise will be hurt a few weeks into the regular season. At least McKissic will be available to play in games.

 

[olyfan63]

Let them compete - but I think we are going rookie early in the draft (day one or two).

We will strike gold and get a new starter.

Belated Post-of-the-Month for March.
Penny for your thoughts.