Dion Bailey

[Hasselbeck]

I'm not so worried about Nick Foles exposing him, but that quarterback we play a week after Sunday ... yeah...

 

[Snakeeyes007]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but whether or not #31 ever dons a Seahawks uniform again, or Dion performs admirably replacing him this year, perhaps we'll see "Seahawks Pick: Jeremy Cash, Duke" or perhaps "Seakawks Pick: Josh Harvey-Clemons, Louisville". unno:

Rooting for Dion to get a pick 6, 2 TFL's, and 10 overall tackles against the Rams in week 1. ray:

 

[seahawks51usc]

I watched a lot of SC games when Bailey was in college and I really do think there won't be much of a drop off from Kam to Bailey. Bailey is a play-maker (just watch his college tape, he always seemed to be around the ball making huge plays). He obviously doesn't have the size that Kam has and won't bring the same physical intimidation factor that Kam did, but from a playmaking/coverage/tackling perspective, he will be a more than solid safety. FYI -- one of the CBS NFL insiders (La Canfora) had a column yesterday or today where he interviewed an NFL scout who spoke very highly of Bailey.

Bailey didn't get drafted last year because most teams viewed him as a LB-S tweener (he played primarily LB in college, but his natural NFL position is safety). You know who else fell in the NFL draft because most teams thought he was a LB-S tweener? Yep, that's right, Kam.

It will be extremely difficult for Bailey to replace Kam's physical presence and tackling ability but I actually think Bailey could have the potential to be a better coverage safety than Kam (our coaches did a great job of covering up some of Kam's weaknesses). His LB background is perfect for his role as a SS in our predominantly Cover 3 defense (I can't remember which preseason game it was, but there was one play where Bailey was able to set the edge AND still find a way to make a play and trip up the RB - most safeties in the NFL wouldn't be able to make that play), and he has the instincts and agility to be a solid coverage guy (see his tape, his agility scores are also very good despite his mediocre 40' time).

 

[sc85sis]

His deep coverage skills still need work, but his skills in the box should be fine. He made 11 picks in college playing SLB and SS.

I see eight INTs:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... ley-1.html

Fox Sports and ESPN both show him with 5 picks in 2013 for a total of 11.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footba ... ley-player

I'd have to check further to validate but I'm on my phone at the moment.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

:thcoffee:

It's fine to discuss the difference between the two as long as it's purely football focused. But any wandering afield won't be looked on kindly.

 

[hawknation2015]

His deep coverage skills still need work, but his skills in the box should be fine. He made 11 picks in college playing SLB and SS.

I see eight INTs:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pla ... ley-1.html

Fox Sports and ESPN both show him with 5 picks in 2013 for a total of 11.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footba ... ley-player

I'd have to check further to validate but I'm on my phone at the moment.

I should have known better than to trust reference. It also lists him as a LB in 2013, even though he played safety,

 

[HawksSoc]

I'm not so worried about Nick Foles exposing him, but that quarterback we play a week after Sunday ... yeah...

I had forgotten our schedule, now I'm sad. :|

 

[Smellyman]

He can hit... to a degree. Dude is small. He is also slow. Right now he is a weakness we will have to cover.

He's just as fast as Kam.

All this does is tell you what a freak Kam is.

Same speed, but Kam is two inches taller and 30 lbs heavier.

Not to derail thread too much.....but Bobby Wagner is a superfreak than.

Also,X and O nerds can elaborate if true. But with Bobby and KJ in Front. Sherm to one side and Earl covering the rest, isn't SS pretty easy in Hawk scheme? Which made an enforcer like Kam great in this scheme. Bailey isn't Kam, but overall the D will be just fine.

Didn't Kam really start to show when Sherm and Earl arrived?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He can hit... to a degree. Dude is small. He is also slow. Right now he is a weakness we will have to cover.

He's just as fast as Kam.

All this does is tell you what a freak Kam is.

Same speed, but Kam is two inches taller and 30 lbs heavier.

Not to derail thread too much.....but Bobby Wagner is a superfreak than.

Also,X and O nerds can elaborate if true. But with Bobby and KJ in Front. Sherm to one side and Earl covering the rest, isn't SS pretty easy in Hawk scheme? Which made an enforcer like Kam great in this scheme. Bailey isn't Kam, but overall the D will be just fine.

Didn't Kam really start to show when Sherm and Earl arrived?

I don't think you're giving Kam enough credit.

In order for our cover 3 one high safety scheme to work, yes you gotta have a guy like Earl that can cover insane amounts of space with amazing cover skills and intuition............but you also have to have a SS that can blow up plays across the middle AND cover TE's/RB's out of the backfield.

What I saw with Bailey in the preseason was a guy that can hit, but didn't play close enough to the line in order to keep those crossing routes, short hook routes and check downs to 3-4 yards. Those plays with Bailey were 7-10 yard plays.......THEN he'd hit somebody.

So we'll see if that improves. He might do fine, but he's no Kam.

 

[bigskydoc]

Bailey will look a lot better with Thomas in there. Not just because of the help over the top, but also because Earl will be coaching him in real-time throughout the game. Glad they have a real game to work together and get in sync against Foles before they have to face Rogers.

Although Kam's leadership is rightfully touted, I have the sense that it is more of a locker room/ sideline variety of leadership. The field general is Earl.

No question we will miss Kam and all he brings, but more in the way we missed Browner than the way we would miss Thomas or Sherman.

I think we are going to have a rough start, much like last year, but I don't think all is lost with our current SS crop. I still wouldn't be surprised to see us start like last year going 3-3 then 6-4 before hitting our stride.

- bsd

 

[vin.couve12]

Cover 3 is a 3 deep zone. It is NOT single high as in a cover 1.

Cover 3 has 3 people with deep responsibility. It's literally cut into thirds. By cutting that into 3rds it means you're sacrificing a man underneath. You only have 4 covering underneath.

3 deep, 4 underneath, 4 at the LOS.

Cover 2 is quite different in emphasis. It only has 2 deep and it has 5 covering the underneath routes.

2 deep, 5 underneath, 4 at the LOS

again vs

3 deep, 4 underneath, 4 at the LOS

That's 33% of the deep field vs 50% of the deep field. Granted, there are times when we'll run a press man cover 1 where the FS is hanging back looking for anything deep at all, but it's few and far between. Reason being is that when we go to man coverage on a consistent basis, offenses will start running a lot of natural pick plays and just eat up the 5 to 15 yard passes with relative ease.

Granted, these are basic generalities and there are a lot of variances, but they generally stay in line with the coverage concept.

 

[vin.couve12]

So to put emphasis on that, because you are setting out to not get beat deep in a cover 3 by design and you only have 4 players covering underneath, you really need to have some pretty special players in those 4 positions.

Wagner = special
Kam = special
KJ = very good (albeit kind of a rough 2014 in coverage)
Irvin = very good with special upside

In a cover 2 where you have 5 people doing the job of those 4, those people don't need to be as good.

Conversely, in a cover 3, you have 3 people doing the job of 2 in a cover 2 and don't need to be as good.

I'm not saying that Sherm or ET aren't as good or aren't comparable. I actually think that a cover 3 corner has a more difficult job than a cover 2 corner, who actually kind of camps out in a 10-15 yard zone. It's ironic that Revis has actually played a lot of cover 2 aside from man coverage. Cover 3 is difficult for a corner because your main responsibility is to not get beat deep, but teams will try to throw underneath you a lot. The term, "run them off" is really what applies here. They tend to try and attack the area between the flat and deep sideline and the cover 3 corner has to try to be aware of when they need to come off their route and not let that beat up the defense all day.

The FS in a cover 3, however; shouldn't need to get to the sideline too much to cover for the corners. If he does, then the corners aren't doing their job. He's looking for deep middle. This doesn't mean that ET isn't the best FS, but it does mean that his job is a little easier than a cover 2 safety.

Now, going back to those 4 players in the underneath coverage, I'm expecting offenses to go at the path of least resistance. That's going to be Bailey unless he proves otherwise.

 

[two dog]

Thanks for the tutorial. No sarcasm here, I mean it, thank you.

Actually, I'm far more worried about our starting right side corner than
I am about Bailey. No names mentioned so thread not jacked.

 

[McGruff]

Cover 3 is a 3 deep zone. It is NOT single high as in a cover 1.

Cover 3 has 3 people with deep responsibility. It's literally cut into thirds. By cutting that into 3rds it means you're sacrificing a man underneath. You only have 4 covering underneath.

3 deep, 4 underneath, 4 at the LOS.

Cover 2 is quite different in emphasis. It only has 2 deep and it has 5 covering the underneath routes.

2 deep, 5 underneath, 4 at the LOS

again vs

3 deep, 4 underneath, 4 at the LOS

That's 33% of the deep field vs 50% of the deep field. Granted, there are times when we'll run a press man cover 1 where the FS is hanging back looking for anything deep at all, but it's few and far between. Reason being is that when we go to man coverage on a consistent basis, offenses will start running a lot of natural pick plays and just eat up the 5 to 15 yard passes with relative ease.

Granted, these are basic generalities and there are a lot of variances, but they generally stay in line with the coverage concept.

That's why I am wondering if we won't see more 4-4 fronts with KPL on the field instead of Dion.

 

[McGruff]

So to put emphasis on that, because you are setting out to not get beat deep in a cover 3 by design and you only have 4 players covering underneath, you really need to have some pretty special players in those 4 positions.

Wagner = special
Kam = special
KJ = very good (albeit kind of a rough 2014 in coverage)
Irvin = very good with special upside

In a cover 2 where you have 5 people doing the job of those 4, those people don't need to be as good.

Conversely, in a cover 3, you have 3 people doing the job of 2 in a cover 2 and don't need to be as good.

I'm not saying that Sherm or ET aren't as good or aren't comparable. I actually think that a cover 3 corner has a more difficult job than a cover 2 corner, who actually kind of camps out in a 10-15 yard zone. It's ironic that Revis has actually played a lot of cover 2 aside from man coverage. Cover 3 is difficult for a corner because your main responsibility is to not get beat deep, but teams will try to throw underneath you a lot. The term, "run them off" is really what applies here. They tend to try and attack the area between the flat and deep sideline and the cover 3 corner has to try to be aware of when they need to come off their route and not let that beat up the defense all day.

The FS in a cover 3, however; shouldn't need to get to the sideline too much to cover for the corners. If he does, then the corners aren't doing their job. He's looking for deep middle. This doesn't mean that ET isn't the best FS, but it does mean that his job is a little easier than a cover 2 safety.

Now, going back to those 4 players in the underneath coverage, I'm expecting offenses to go at the path of least resistance. That's going to be Bailey unless he proves otherwise.

One thing that makes Earl's range important for us is that we don't just run a cover-3; we run cover-3 man press. The corner's don't just inhabit their deep zone, they have to press at the line and then bail. That makes it easier to beat them deep and Earl's range and field vision really come into effect.

 

[JAGHAWK]

Time to shine, Bailey.

 

[Exittium]

I actually think with earl and sherm in to play with he'll learn more and get better. If he doesn't then next man up lol the dude can't outright suck ... Can he?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

This guy is Undrafted, barely 6 feet , 205 lbs. also not overly fast. Kam is 6'3 , runs like the wind an is an absolute beast. This loss is so significant. It's like taking Ronnie Lott out of the lineup in his prime that's how big this is. Bailey cannot carry this dudes jock strap on the field

 

[ImTheScientist]

This guy is Undrafted, barely 6 feet , 205 lbs. also not overly fast. Kam is 6'3 , runs like the wind an is an absolute beast. This loss is so significant. It's like taking Ronnie Lott out of the lineup in his prime that's how big this is. Bailey cannot carry this dudes jock strap on the field

Bailey is the same speed as Kam. How does Kam run like the wind and Dion isn't overly fast? Please explain.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

A 40 times is not the same as field speed an especially when it's a 6'3 230 lb safety as opposed to a 6' 205. Bailey is not fast which is why he went Undrafted , that an he's just not very good.