Disappointing - Irvin’s contract numbers

[SoulfishHawk]

He seems to still have some juice left, and loves it here. I have a good feeling about the signing. Obviously I'd prefer they ALSO add Clowney, but they are running out cap $ if they don't make some other moves to fit him in. The longer it goes the better, but at this point who knows that hell is gonna' happen. Hopeful yes, but thinking he signs with the Hawks? It's 50/50 at this point imo.

 

[Cyrus12]

Since it looks like any chance of Clowney coming here is gone I wonder why they haven't signed Griffen yet?

 

[jammerhawk]

$$$$$$$$

 

[TwistedHusky]

This one is difficult.

I would argue that they never really recovered from the loss of Irvin. We thought losing him would be no big deal, but it created a giant hole we have struggled over time to fill.

So it is tempting to try to fill the hole back with the guy we lost. The challenge is whether Irvin can really do the stuff he used to be able to do for us.

The second issue is whether a potentially reduced-ability Irvin is worth the $6M vs just paying more for someone we know can produce.

If this was the difference in making a deep playoff run or something, I would be more concerned. But I don't think we are close enough that this decision is going to be materially important in the big picture. And players always cost more than you think they should, so fingers crossed this one works out for us.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Since it looks like any chance of Clowney coming here is gone I wonder why they haven't signed Griffen yet?

Some possibilities to consider:
Because Pete and John prefer Irvin and Mayowa to Griffen, and the signing of Irvin and Mayowa left no room in the rotation for Griffen.

Because Pete and John are keeping the cap space open to sign, or trade for, a true difference maker on the d-line rather than signing the first above average pass rusher that comes available just to placate impatient fans.

Because the marginal, if any, improvement of Griffen over the current d-end options on the team isn't worth the cost in $$, lost cap space, and blocking the development of the young guys drafted in the past three seasons.

Because Griffen has exhibited mental health issues and is an older player who the team has not been able to meet with and examine in person to make an evaluation on his mental and physical fitness to play.

Because Pete and John do not think Griffen is a good fit for the locker room (if you think this isn't important you have clearly never coached anything other than a rec league).

Because Pete and John believe in the young guys drafted in the past three seasons, recognize that a return to defensive dominance will come through internal growth and development, and feel the need to get young and hungry on the defensive side of the ball.

Because last year's ineffective pass rush had more to do with 1) opposing QBs getting the ball out quickly, 2) the defensive scheme, 3) soft coverage, 4) an inability to stop the run, and 5) lack of pocket pressure inside than it had to do with d-end play.

Could be one of the above, could be a combination of the above, could be additional reasons that I haven't listed above, could be I haven't got a clue and it's none of the above.

 

[gowazzu02]

Griffen is waiting for Clowney to set the market I guess.

 

[Mad Dog]

In the end we probably should have just signed Frank Clark. Especially if Collier doesn't pan out. But hind sight is 20/20.
Elite pass rushers are hard to find unless you've got early 1st round picks or oodles of cap space. Teams with elite QB's on second and third contracts are going to struggle with both.

Clowney is the best player available right now and does tilt the field as far as commanding double teams and getting penetration. I am not sure why we aren't moving on him as clearly it's the biggest hole on the roster.

But hey at least this pass rush complaining helps take our mind off the terrible OL we will once again be fielding. Man i miss Big Walt and Hutch.

 

[gowazzu02]

In the end we probably should have just signed Frank Clark. Especially if Collier doesn't pan out. But hind sight is 20/20.
Elite pass rushers are hard to find unless you've got early 1st round picks or oodles of cap space. Teams with elite QB's on second and third contracts are going to struggle with both.

Clowney is the best player available right now and does tilt the field as far as commanding double teams and getting penetration. I am not sure why we aren't moving on him as clearly it's the biggest hole on the roster.

But hey at least this pass rush complaining helps take our mind off the terrible OL we will once again be fielding. Man i miss Big Walt and Hutch.

KC offered a great deal that we couldn't refuse. We still have Collier for 3 years potentially 4 if we pick up the 5th year option.

Go back to Franks first year, (it was much better than Colliers) but he wasn't the Frank Clark we know now. Pass r
ushers need time to develop.

 

[Sun Tzu]

In the end we probably should have just signed Frank Clark. Especially if Collier doesn't pan out. But hind sight is 20/20.
Elite pass rushers are hard to find unless you've got early 1st round picks or oodles of cap space. Teams with elite QB's on second and third contracts are going to struggle with both.

Clowney is the best player available right now and does tilt the field as far as commanding double teams and getting penetration. I am not sure why we aren't moving on him as clearly it's the biggest hole on the roster.

But hey at least this pass rush complaining helps take our mind off the terrible OL we will once again be fielding. Man i miss Big Walt and Hutch.

It's not clear to me. As far as holes on the roster, if you are referring to starters there are at least three positions that are currently weaker than DE, if you are referring to overall quality depth at a position there are at least five positions with less quality depth than DE.

 

[Largent80]

The guy had a great season. He's coming home. I think he can do really well. I still believe Clownshoes will sign here. Concerned, not worried.

 

[QuahHawk]

His price per sack will be decent. I assumed it would be around $4 Mil as he made that last year so this isnt that surprising but higher than I'd like.

 

[Cyrus12]

We will know after this season if Collier was another reach bust. A lot will be expected from him this year.

 

[Appyhawk]

Griffen is waiting for Clowney to set the market I guess.

At this point I don't see any possibility that we get both Griff and Clowney. I think Griff prefers Seattle for a destination, but Seattle prefers Clowney if possible. So IMO Griff is waiting for Clowney to CREATE his market. If Clowney goes elsewhere Griff will be both affordable and available. If Clowney agrees to terms with Seattle Griff's price might increase in the eyes of Philly or other suitors.

 

[tersal]

Well I think our secondary will be much improved but our front 4 is at this time a glaring weakness. Not overly ecstatic about our lb depth either but I guess there is still time to improve this.

Not getting rushing and making a desperate move for a DE tells me the team believes in Green, Collier, Taylor and maybe even Robinson in a developmental way. Or perhaps they are confident they will resign Clowney or pickup Griffen.

 

[Elemas]

If we can sign Clowney or Griffen, I like the Irvin signing.

Olsen's contract on the other hand...

 

[jamescasey1124]

I agree!^^^^

Olsen signing was a WTF! Dissly I get it he can be injured, but is a top TE when playing. Hollister did a serviceable job. Although, most people hate him because he got racked at the one inch line and cost us a game...supposedly. Remember when all we had was Willson and still one games? Weird. TE was not needed. Plus we drafted two and Parkinson looks real deal.

I like the Irvin signing without Clowney. With Clowney we would be good either way. I think what we drafted and signed is going to surprise some people. Clowney and griffen is not needed. Trade for Jacob martin with a low round deal. We will be set. I see us signing another old free agent dt to help in the middle.

 

[BigMeach]

I agree!^^^^

Olsen signing was a WTF! Dissly I get it he can be injured, but is a top TE when playing. Hollister did a serviceable job. Although, most people hate him because he got racked at the one inch line and cost us a game...supposedly. Remember when all we had was Willson and still one games? Weird. TE was not needed. Plus we drafted two and Parkinson looks real deal.

I like the Irvin signing without Clowney. With Clowney we would be good either way. I think what we drafted and signed is going to surprise some people. Clowney and griffen is not needed. Trade for Jacob martin with a low round deal. We will be set. I see us signing another old free agent dt to help in the middle.

Not sure why we'd trade to get Martin back when we traded him away last year to get Clowney. I know a lot of people think he really blossomed last year because of the one national game we all saw. But if you check his stats, he had 3.5 sacks last year. That was pretty much his best game of the year.

 

[jamescasey1124]

I agree!^^^^

Olsen signing was a WTF! Dissly I get it he can be injured, but is a top TE when playing. Hollister did a serviceable job. Although, most people hate him because he got racked at the one inch line and cost us a game...supposedly. Remember when all we had was Willson and still one games? Weird. TE was not needed. Plus we drafted two and Parkinson looks real deal.

I like the Irvin signing without Clowney. With Clowney we would be good either way. I think what we drafted and signed is going to surprise some people. Clowney and griffen is not needed. Trade for Jacob martin with a low round deal. We will be set. I see us signing another old free agent dt to help in the middle.

Not sure why we'd trade to get Martin back when we traded him away last year to get Clowney. I know a lot of people think he really blossomed last year because of the one national game we all saw. But if you check his stats, he had 3.5 sacks last year. That was pretty much his best game of the year.

I dont care about the stats. He barely played for the Texans. Plus we dont have Clowney. The guy we traded him for. You can get him cheap and I think we would be set at de. Not saying this in a million years going to happen, but it doesnt hurt to hope.

 

[jammerhawk]

What is a player who is familiar with the system and who got 8 sacks last season worth?

He’s getting less than Ziggy did for delivering diddly and Irvin will in all likelihood deliver between 5 and 8 sacks while showing up for the season. Clowney wanted more than 3x what Irvin is getting and the team smartly resisted. The team now has other pieces here that would advantage Clowney if he re-signed. Failing him the team might want to see what Griffen would bring along with Irvin and Mayowa for less than what Clowney was offered.

Is he overpaid? Can’t say yet but I suspect he will be thought of as an above average addition by the end of the season.. $5.9 million/yr. isn’t chump change but it is about average for 2nd to 3rd tier pass rushers. Thing is as well the team knows this player and what he does best. The uptake time for Bruce to be totally comfortable with the D and to be able to use his proven edge speed will be short.

I’m not as negative as some are here about this signing.

The pre-season isn’t done yet, we may see other additions and perhaps even Clowney before games are played. I’m sure there then won’t be many complaints about his contract even though his sack numbers would indicate he’s overpaid.

 

[olyfan63]

Since it looks like any chance of Clowney coming here is gone I wonder why they haven't signed Griffen yet?

Some possibilities to consider:
Because Pete and John prefer Irvin and Mayowa to Griffen, and the signing of Irvin and Mayowa left no room in the rotation for Griffen.

Because Pete and John are keeping the cap space open to sign, or trade for, a true difference maker on the d-line rather than signing the first above average pass rusher that comes available just to placate impatient fans.

Because the marginal, if any, improvement of Griffen over the current d-end options on the team isn't worth the cost in $$, lost cap space, and blocking the development of the young guys drafted in the past three seasons.

Because Griffen has exhibited mental health issues and is an older player who the team has not been able to meet with and examine in person to make an evaluation on his mental and physical fitness to play.

Because Pete and John do not think Griffen is a good fit for the locker room (if you think this isn't important you have clearly never coached anything other than a rec league).

Because Pete and John believe in the young guys drafted in the past three seasons, recognize that a return to defensive dominance will come through internal growth and development, and feel the need to get young and hungry on the defensive side of the ball.

Because last year's ineffective pass rush had more to do with 1) opposing QBs getting the ball out quickly, 2) the defensive scheme, 3) soft coverage, 4) an inability to stop the run, and 5) lack of pocket pressure inside than it had to do with d-end play.

Could be one of the above, could be a combination of the above, could be additional reasons that I haven't listed above, could be I haven't got a clue and it's none of the above.

Just wanted to say what an awesome and comprehensive post this is.
Sun clearly has a direct feed from Pete & John's brains. Hell, he even spelled Griffen's last name correctly, and made me realize I'd been using the wrong spelling.

I, too, think Griffen would be a BAD locker room fit here. IMO he's just not a stable individual to make a large bet on. The Vikings have already pwned us over the years in a few trades, Harvin coming to mind. Sidney Rice was good--WHILE he lasted. (Rice was FA signing not trade) I'm struggling to recall anyone we've gotten during the Carroll era via the Vikings that was productive and durable as a Seahawk. (I'm sure there have been some, help me out if you think of any, besides perhaps TJack)

The 2013 SB48 team had tons of retreads and cheap rookies on it that came up big. Darren Smith? The Tip, baby. Super Bowl MVP, baby. Hell, nearly the whole 2013 O-Line was late round or undrafted rookies or practice squad pickups. Bowie and Bailey? Breno? Sweezy? McQuistan? Yeah, we had Okung and Unger, and Carpenter, but that O-Line nearly got Russell killed in several games.

On that amazing D, we had young emerging Bobby and KJ, 2nd and 4th round picks at LB, 5th rounder Sherman, 5th rounder Kam, Irvin was in his 2nd year IIRC, other no-name DBs like Jeremy Lane, Walter Thurmond, Brandon Browner. Yes, we had Avril, Bennett, Mebane, and ET, but we also had journeymen like Tony McDaniel and Clinton McDonald holding down the interior. Not to mention Red Bryant, a DT who somehow played DE.

On O, besides the obvious Wilson and Lynch, we had the suddenly emergent Golden Tate, the brilliant Doug Baldwin, Jerome Kearse up from the Practice Squad, proven TE Zach Miller, the speedy but raw TE Luke Willson,

I mean, really, the 2013 team had a LOT of unheralded free agents and young guys who outperformed their contracts, especially Russell Wilson, and enough depth to come on strong in the postseason. I see Pete and John following a lot of the 2013-2014 formula, stockpiling depth of "good" veteran players and counting on a few young stars to emerge, and relying on the team playing together. Bringing back veterans Irvin and Mayowa, especially in a year where practice reps will be limited, I think will turn out brilliantly.

Sorry if I failed to mention any of your favorite players. My point is that the approach Pete and John are taking this year has many elements in common with the brilliance that was 2013. Will the FA talent they've brought in perform as brilliantly as the 2013 group, and outperform their contracts? We can always hope. Will our young players emerge like they did? Again, hoping for that.

Bruce Irvin? I approve this signing.