Dorial Beckham Green

[Attyla the Hawk]

I think that if I'm completely honest with myself, I have to admit that I'm probably more in love with the IDEA of DGB and what he could be. And as is often the case with our infatuations, sometimes we have a tendency to overlook glaring flaws that we shouldn't. Back in 1998, Bobby Beathard (GM of the Chargers) ignored all of the warning signs that were screaming at him in the face and drafted Ryan Leaf anyway. The Raiders did the same thing with Todd Marinovich in 1991 ... and the Browns last year with Johnny Manziel.

Back in 2001, Mike Holmgren believed that he could rescue Koren Robinson from his demons as well. And if I'm honest with myself that's what I see when I look at DGB -- another Koren Robinson. I've worked with a lot of kids who have backgrounds similar to DGB and I know that if I were a team looking in invest my 1st Round pick in to a player, I'd be extremely wary.

We could go the other way though, and put forth risky prospects that excelled (Bryant, Moss, Sapp) too.

Ultimately, what occurred with previous prospects doesn't really apply to the next individual. And I think if we're being honest, we'll agree that ultimately there is no lesson to be applied here.

And every one of those comparisons aren't truly fair. Every one of those were early picks of bad teams that really couldn't afford to throw away draft capital like that. The pain isn't so much as the fact you missed, but what you probably should have gained had you not taken that risk. Those cases only serve to embellish a fear of risk that shouldn't be applied when talking about the last few picks of the draft.

The pick, in terms of actual risk to expected reward, is so much less at 20 or above. Jimmy Smith, Tim Tebow, Dez Bryant etc. All the kinds of prospects who were warty for various reasons (character or just ability). Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. The real question is, is the upside potential worth the risk. Comparing what's available -- that may or may not be the case.

Seattle could have two risk options available (Gurley/DGB). Would be interesting if they roll the dice a bit for upside. That's kind of been their MO in 2012/2013. Obviously the interview process will be huge. Something we won't have any insight into.

 

[scutterhawk]

I'd be fine with taking the risk, remember Kelvin Benjamin? Regardless something needs to be done about our WR corps and likely the entire offense in the next two or three years maximum (because you can't justify spending elite level money on your quarterback and then proceed to NOT give him at least a few reasonable weapons in the passing game).

You're exactly right, now's the time to fill out a few glaring weaknesses in our Offensive weaponry.
ESPECIALLY If Lynch decides to hang up his gold cleats, and you don't bolster the O-Line to give pass protection, Russell Wilson is going to need some other tools he to succeed.

 

[scutterhawk]

NM.

 

[CANHawk]

I've been hearing lots of chatter about this guy. Will be monitoring the situation closely. Bruce Irvin had character concerns too and he's been pretty steady. I think this locker room is good for guys like this...

 

[Hawkscanner]

I think that if I'm completely honest with myself, I have to admit that I'm probably more in love with the IDEA of DGB and what he could be. And as is often the case with our infatuations, sometimes we have a tendency to overlook glaring flaws that we shouldn't. Back in 1998, Bobby Beathard (GM of the Chargers) ignored all of the warning signs that were screaming at him in the face and drafted Ryan Leaf anyway. The Raiders did the same thing with Todd Marinovich in 1991 ... and the Browns last year with Johnny Manziel.

Back in 2001, Mike Holmgren believed that he could rescue Koren Robinson from his demons as well. And if I'm honest with myself that's what I see when I look at DGB -- another Koren Robinson. I've worked with a lot of kids who have backgrounds similar to DGB and I know that if I were a team looking in invest my 1st Round pick in to a player, I'd be extremely wary.

We could go the other way though, and put forth risky prospects that excelled (Bryant, Moss, Sapp) too.

Ultimately, what occurred with previous prospects doesn't really apply to the next individual. And I think if we're being honest, we'll agree that ultimately there is no lesson to be applied here.

And every one of those comparisons aren't truly fair. Every one of those were early picks of bad teams that really couldn't afford to throw away draft capital like that. The pain isn't so much as the fact you missed, but what you probably should have gained had you not taken that risk. Those cases only serve to embellish a fear of risk that shouldn't be applied when talking about the last few picks of the draft.

The pick, in terms of actual risk to expected reward, is so much less at 20 or above. Jimmy Smith, Tim Tebow, Dez Bryant etc. All the kinds of prospects who were warty for various reasons (character or just ability). Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. The real question is, is the upside potential worth the risk. Comparing what's available -- that may or may not be the case.

Seattle could have two risk options available (Gurley/DGB). Would be interesting if they roll the dice a bit for upside. That's kind of been their MO in 2012/2013. Obviously the interview process will be huge. Something we won't have any insight into.

No, to be completely fair that's an excellent counterpoint. For sure, you're right in saying that for every Koren Robinson, there's a Randy Moss. For every Percy Harvin who doesn't work out, there's a Marshawn Lynch who does.

Yeah, there are lots of examples of guys out there who have waving red flags who end up panning out big time (Moss, Sapp, Bryant, etc.). Moss scared away a lot of teams on draft day ... and when the 15th pick came (our pick) and Moss was still on the board, I was hoping like crazy that the Hawks would nab him. Anthony Simmons was a good LB and had some nice seasons ... but was never the kind of impact player that Moss was. Who would have ever thought Moss would have had a longer career than a guy who appeared to be the safe pick?

I'm not saying that the Seahawks should suddenly return to the Tim Ruskell school of always drafting the "safe pick" and staying away from high risk/high reward kind of player. We've seen the foolishness of that approach as well.

So what am I saying? I'm saying that if I were an NFL team, I wouldn't invest a 1st Round Draft Choice on him. I wouldn't. Now if he starts to really slide and he's still on the board when the Seahawks draft in the 4th Round .... then I start to consider it.

If I'm Schneider, the only way I'd consider drafting him higher is if he and I have an agreement in place. Here is the scenario. I basically bring him in and tell him, here's the deal. We really like you a lot. You mean a great deal to us and we want you to be a Seahawk for a very long time. Being a Seahawk means you're not just another player -- you're family. Every member of our family here is all in. We play for one another, fight for one another, and watch out for one another. As brothers, we have each others' backs 24-7, whether on the field or off it. That's what championship football and being part of a Super Bowl caliber team is all about. We want to set you up for success and to help you become the best NFL player you can possibly be. As a part of that commitment, we are instituting a new mentorship program. Doug Baldwin is going to be your mentor. Think of him like your big brother -- a brother who's been through the war and is going to help you learn what it's like to be an NFL player -- on and off the field. Doug is going to be your mentor and your roommate. Everywhere he goes, you go. I don't want you going anywhere this year without him. If you want to go to the store to pick up something ... he's going to drive you there and help you find it. He's going to show you the ropes, help you navigate the often treacherous waters, and will help you realize your full potential as a receiver and teach you what it means to be a Seahawk.

That's basically where I'm at as far as DBG is concerned at this moment in time. You're right in saying that the interview process is going to be huge for him, that's for certain. We'll see what comes out of that whole thing. What comes out of those pregame interviews is probably going to make or break him in terms of his 1st Round status for a lot of teams.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

http://kbiasports.org/2014/04/11/gr...nvestigation-witness-fears-possible-backlash/

According a police report, Green-Beckham unlawfully entered a residence at 310 Old Plank Rd. at 2:36 a.m. Sunday. According to the report, the case was closed mostly because victims and witnesses feared retaliation and harassment for bringing a criminal complaint against the star football player.

The report says one victim was, “afraid of the media and community backlash since Green-Beckham is a football player at the University of Missouri and is possibly going to be in the NFL draft soon.”

Jill Schlude, assistant police chief for Columbia, told KFRU-AM earlier this week that police investigations of Missouri athletes in the college town are routinely hampered by wary witnesses.

“If you’re a Mizzou student, do you want to be the person who, to use their terminology, ‘snitched out’ somebody who’s this big athlete, star on campus, whatever?” she said. “There’s a lot of pressure there sometimes on the students.”

Green-Beckham’s girlfriend sent 16 text messages throughout the day on Sunday to one of her roommates. In the texts, the girlfriend pressured her roommate into declining prosecution. She said in a text, “Can you call me? Or the police department? And not have him arrested.” And a few texts later: “We just need to move quickly on this before he’s arrested and before his warrant is made public.”

His girlfriend pressed her roommate several times to decline prosecution to help Green-Beckham’s football career, saying “Dorial was wrong in every way and you have a every right to be furious. But football is really all he has going for him and pressing charges would ruin it for him completely.”

Green-Beckham’s girlfriend continued, saying in another text, “He deserves to pay somehow, but without football he has nothing. He wouldn’t be in a real job. He’d be in the streets and in prison like his brothers.”

In the text conversation, Green-Beckham’s girlfriend said that he, “drug me out by my neck and hurt me too.” In a follow up interview with Detective Alma Ashbury, she denied that Green-Beckham hurt her. The report describes her as “extremely uncooperative”.

One of the female victims reported that Missouri coaches talked to Green-Beckham’s girlfriend and explained the seriousness of the matter:

“He will be kicked out of Mizzou and the not (sic) qualify for the draft next year. The coaches talked to me and explained to e (sic) how serious this is and there’s no time to waste at this point.”

According to Ashbury though, the girlfriend denied that the coaching staff had approached her, despite admitting that she had sent a text to her roommate that Missouri coaches had come to her to make sure the charges would be dropped.

MU Athletics could not be reached for comment.

This is Green-Beckham’s third incident with police since he arrived at MU. In January, he was arrested along with two men after Springfield police found a pound of marijuana in their car. No criminal charges have been filed in that case. Green-Beckham was also charged in October 2012 with marijuana possession in Columbia and later pleaded guilty to second-degree trespassing. He and two teammates were reportedly smoking pot in a campus parking lot near Memorial Stadium.

 

[Scottemojo]

All that stuff should make him a 2nd or 3rd day risk, not first round. Domestic violence, B&E, and the dude is lucky he isn't facing posession with intent.

And everyone is supposed to feel good because his brother has him all straightened out supposedly.

 

[Hawkscanner]

WOW! I hadn't seen that report. Holy cats, if that's true, this sounds like Ray Rice kind of stuff. What I said before -- no way that I'm an NFL team that I'd be looking to invest a 1st Round Draft choice on this guy. If this is what actually has been going on, I agree with what Scott said that he could slide right out of the draft altogether. This is a blaring fog horn that teams should be paying attention to lest they wreck themselves on the rocks.

 

[Hawkfan77]

I'm sorry but what is kbia sports? I'm not doubting the validity of the article posted, but I have never heard of that site before. Is that story published anywhere more reputable?

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I'm sorry but what is kbia sports? I'm not doubting the validity of the article posted, but I have never heard of that site before. Is that story published anywhere more reputable?

KBIA is a local radio station. It'd be like something similar on KJR here.

 

[Hawkfan77]

I'm sorry but what is kbia sports? I'm not doubting the validity of the article posted, but I have never heard of that site before. Is that story published anywhere more reputable?

KBIA is a local radio station. It'd be like something similar on KJR here.

Got it, thanks.

I've heard bits and pieces of what happened, but nothing laid out like that. No way he's drafted in the 1st

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I'm not saying that the Seahawks should suddenly return to the Tim Ruskell school of always drafting the "safe pick" and staying away from high risk/high reward kind of player. We've seen the foolishness of that approach as well.

So what am I saying? I'm saying that if I were an NFL team, I wouldn't invest a 1st Round Draft Choice on him. I wouldn't. Now if he starts to really slide and he's still on the board when the Seahawks draft in the 4th Round .... then I start to consider it.

This couldn't be stressed enough. I really hate it when fans of risky picks try to smear the critic's opinions by associating them with Ruskell. It's just lazy and doesn't apply. These guys ARE risky. And sometimes you end up having to cut bait with them in embarrassing and costly fashion.

Instead of classifying it as a 'first round pick', as a supporter of possibly using that pick on DGB -- I have tried to quantify the alternatives. Because it's commonplace to toss around the label of First round pick -- as if they are all equal. But in fact picking at the end of the first round is definitely NOT the same as picking in the top 20.

There are talents I'd rather take at 31 if they should drop. For instance, I'd much rather take Gurley at 31 -- despite the fact that there is also risk associated with him due to the ACL injury. So for me, it's not merely cut and dried about using or not using a first round pick on him. For me, it's about who are the alternatives. I don't want a solid part time starter who ultimately wouldn't be worth the 5th year option. We can and do get those types of players on day 2 and 3.

But depending on how the draft falls, there may not be great alternatives remaining on the board. Undoubtedly there will be good players left. But being able to determine if there are great players left will be exceptionally difficult. Whomever is still available at 31 is going to be a player who will have to develop far beyond what is expected after he gets onto an NFL club. They won't have the pedigree or body of work that will give much indication of that future greatness. Otherwise they'd have been long gone by 31.

I can't really speak to the risk in terms of him flaking out and smoking his way out of the league. I know none of us can. Because there are some that do, and some that don't. And on draft day, there is no guarantee either way. Obviously, there are teams that forged championship caliber rosters by taking chances on those players (TB/Minn/Dallas).

Normally, I would agree -- that the risk is kind of not worth it. But when I consider the alternatives, and also consider the individual prospect from a skills/measurement perspective and how they uniquely fit the glaring hole in our roster that we've been trying to fill since Pete got here -- then it's at least possible that this risk may well be worth taking.

 

[Hawks46]

Here's the big problem with ignoring all these off field issues with a guy like this: in the real world, he's going to be prosecuted for this stuff. He won't get away with it like Winston did, in college towns where they're being protected by the student body and the cops.

He's going to get arrested, repeatedly. Especially if he comes up here. Weed is just the start of his problems, but they'll be compounded by the complete availability of it everywhere. Josh Gordon could be the best WR in the NFL. What good is he doing the Browns last year, or this year for that matter ?

No way you flush a 1st round pick on this guy. He's in the last half of the draft at least, barring some team wanting to make a splash or being desperate.

We've been less than stellar with our 1st rounders lately, and we pissed one away in the Harvin deal. Fortunately, Pete and John are so good at drafting that it hasn't bit us in the ass, but just look South to see what could start happening to us if we keep missing on 1st rounders. SF's roster is getting older, more injured, and they are having issues with skill positions as well. Our roster is in better shape in that we need more mid to late rounds to plug depth holes, but when we pay Wilson, make no mistake, we're going ot have to start hitting on 1st rounders in order to avoid paying everyone so much to stay on the squad.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Here's the big problem with ignoring all these off field issues with a guy like this: in the real world, he's going to be prosecuted for this stuff. He won't get away with it like Winston did, in college towns where they're being protected by the student body and the cops.

He's going to get arrested, repeatedly. Especially if he comes up here. Weed is just the start of his problems, but they'll be compounded by the complete availability of it everywhere. Josh Gordon could be the best WR in the NFL. What good is he doing the Browns last year, or this year for that matter ?

No way you flush a 1st round pick on this guy. He's in the last half of the draft at least, barring some team wanting to make a splash or being desperate.

With an attitude like that we wouldn't be the team we are today. We would more than likely resemble the Ruskell era hawks.

Guys like Bruce Irvin or Marshawn Lynch for example wouldn't be on the team. People grow up and change a lot from 18 & 19. Do you think if Josh Gordon was a Seahawk from the start his career path/judgement would be the same? I don't.

If Gurley is gone, DGB is my pick.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

I'm a big fan of DGB on the field, but is off the field issues makes me question on how Seattle will view him.

Pete Carroll's has 3 rules for team success.

Rule #1: Always protect the team

Yeah, Pete likes to take risks on players, but he will absolutely need to know DGB is committed to staying out of trouble so that he can be on the field. His interviews at the combine will be huge for him.

 

[Shane Falco]

This is the pick I'd like to see happen myself. It does seem like a PC kind of move when he's at the bottom of the 1st round to me too. Trying to get that impact player without having a top pick for a more can't miss type. Boom or bust. And I really like that strategy for a non-rebuilding team. If they can't get a guy like this, big boom or bust, they'll trade back imo.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Honestly, there isn't anyone here in this community that can really gauge how the team will view the off field stuff. We're all merely guessing. And imprinting our own particular bias' and risk averse tendencies to our opinions.

I can only really look at the player in terms of potential and flashes of talent. And in that realm specifically, DGB is worth a top 12, possibly top 8 overall choice. That's tossing aside all of the off field issues.

At 31, there is very likely to be a huge delta between talent levels of DGB versus the rest of the field. I don't think it's beyond reason to think at least one team will pull the trigger before 63rd overall. Seattle is a team sorely lacking the exact talents that DGB offers. It's a position we've tried to draft and tried to throw money at and tried to trade for on multiple occasions. So it's a hole in Pete's offensive model. As such, his value is heightened for our particular team relative to other teams.

Only people on the inside are likely to have any understanding of how the red flags truly affect how we view him. And they're not going to make those public. Seattle plays their draft close to the vest.

 

[KillerB]

Just a feeling, but if the Seahawks jumped at the chance to get Irvin at #15 overall a couple of years ago, they'll gladly do the same for this guy if he's there at the end of the first round. Similar troubles and background, similar freakish skillsets, similar "clay to be molded" with little overall experience.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

I'm not sure how anyone can read that article I linked to above and pine for this guy.

Have you seen what happened in the NFL last year?

With the greatest respect, it seems like he got away with a LOT of stuff at Mizzou because, not unlike certain other cases involving high profile players, people are either afraid to press charges through fear of a backlash or the authorities are unwilling to hurt the local team by coming down on the star player.

DGB, Winston, others... poster children for everything that is wrong about college football. They are untouchable. And they know it.

Even if the last year has acted as a major wake up call, I'll let someone else take the chance. Good for him if he turns his life around and becomes an insane NFL talent. The Seahawks don't need to roll the dice on players like this.

Just a feeling, but if the Seahawks jumped at the chance to get Irvin at #15 overall a couple of years ago, they'll gladly do the same for this guy if he's there at the end of the first round. Similar troubles and background, similar freakish skillsets, similar "clay to be molded" with little overall experience.

Totally different situations.

Irvin had trouble as a teenager and used football to turn his life around. He went to the JUCO ranks and excelled, then to West Virginia where he became the best pass rusher in college football. He had no off-field concerns during his football career. All of the troubles date back to his time before football, when he basically lived on the street and hung around with gangs.

All of DGB's problems are down to an immature entitled football player who pissed his college career down the toilet.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Have you seen what happened in the NFL last year?

No question. Although look what has happened to players not name Rice.

Certainly the league had a knee jerk reaction to some other players misdeeds. And took a proactive stance to suspend players with pending litigation.

But there were also many players who as the year went on, went unscathed despite allegations worthy of banishment. The league over reacted to the Rice instance because there was video tape released. And with the latest rulings in his case, the NFL would not be in the same position to make those absolutist moves.

With the greatest respect, it seems like he got away with a LOT of stuff at Mizzou because, not unlike certain other cases involving high profile players, people are either afraid to press charges through fear of a backlash or the authorities are unwilling to hurt the local team by coming down on the star player.

I expect this is limited solely on the battery/assault issue. Smoking the dope was pretty minor. Being a passenger in a car with a known dope dealer -- we can infer guilt on that score, and questioning on that instance should be intense. He wasn't charged with possession or intent. Officially, it wasn't his. But the lingering possibility he's the next Letroy Guion is there.

As for the assault, and lack of prosecution. It's a huge issue. But what isn't an issue IMO, is the victim's intentional lack of cooperation in pressing charges. Is there a culture of pressuring people to let these crimes go unpunished? I don't know. But even if we suspect it, does that culture make it Dorial's fault? I don't see any indication that he was involved with applying said pressure.

Ultimately, the league and the success of teams in it, is based on talent. There are plenty of instances of players doing insanely stupid things -- even criminal things -- and sliding in the draft for the benefit of the teams that took the chance on high talent/high risk options.

It's worth noting too, that until his incident, Ray Rice was literally a model NFL player. Active in the community and a positive role model who never turned down opportunities to enhance the brand of the league and his team. You can be as squeaky clean image wise as possible and still run afoul of decency.

If we were talking about using a first round pick on him, expecting him to be a foundation player on whom the success of the team depends on -- then I would agree. He's just WAY too risky for that. Seattle fortunately wouldn't be tying their success on his character. This team wins on defense and a dominant run game. DGB doesn't factor in that core equation. If he does manage to stay clean and develop as it looks like he probably should -- he is a very valuable weapon worth the 31st pick.

If he doesn't, this team's core competency remains unsullied.

Should DGB be available and we don't take him, I'm not going to be surprised. Obviously there is a risk component I can't really quantify. It's possible these instances are merely the tip of the iceberg of a person who is truly rotten. I can only compare him to other similarly untouchable prospects -- some have worked an some have not. His talent relative to team need is extremely high. If ever there was a case of buying low on a prospect -- it's now for Dorial.

We have to at least concede, that Seattle drafts in such a way as to really almost be contrarian to league group think. They kind of revel in that it seems. Taking a guy who is besmirched is right in our comfort zone. The ability to use the pain of a draft day shunning is our currency for motivating our players. I just can't speak intelligently to whether or not Seattle internally thinks DGB will make good with that motivation or not.