Good Field Gulls article on Pete

[Sgt. Largent]

This is Petes first big issue. So how is he "trying to figure it out" now? As if he's been letting it go for years? Come on... he could trade Sherman and we'd know "Pete doesn't play" same as BB. Maybe he'll try something else. But it's a stretch to say this has been some festering wound under the skin for years.

He hasn't been letting it go for years.

He has jettisoned negative players, Harvin, etc. But this is the first core player he's had to deal with that isn't being the core player we need him to be.

That's all I meant, this is the first time Pete's had to deal with one of "his guys" rebelling and causing problems.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

People seem to forget that Kam Chancellor and Michael Bennett have both broken ranks and caused issues within the organization. They seem to have either settled down or eventually been mollified by the organization's efforts.

The only takeaway from that, really, but a meaningful one nonetheless, is that this is Richard Sherman we're talking about. Most coaches would have trouble with this guy's mouth. That makes it harder to see as a problem of Carroll's making.

 

[StoneCold]

You know, I know that in New England that Bill Belichick has seemingly jettisoned players each and every year throughout the years. I know that in a lot of cases, that's because of cap space issues. BUT, I just wonder, just wonder, if part of the reason is ALSO because Belichick doesn't want guys hanging around too long. Better to have a constant supply of fresh blood who is always hearing the message anew (constantly having fresh sets of hears to hear the same old message) ... than to have too many crusty old veterans hanging around who could have the potential to spread negativity and spoil things. When people hang around too long, that's when they start to see the chinks in the armor.
Veterans KNOW where the weak spots are and are at greater risk of becoming that complainer -- that rotten apple that just might spoil the rest of the bunch. Just a thought.

I've said this many times.

It was the first big criticism of Pete when he was hired, his critics said his rah rah "college style" of coaching would never work in the NFL because veterans wouldn't buy in.

So are we starting to see some of that criticism come home to roost now that he's deep into his tenure here? I'd say a little, yes.

Dave Wyman talks about this all the time when asked what's separates the good teams from the bad since the NFL is such a parity league..........and he says it's the buy in factor. Great teams and coaches continue to get their players to buy in, and thus produce the effort required to out will their opponents.

Maybe John and Pete are starting to figure this out, and thus the Sherman trade rumors are now running rampant.

We don't know what we are seeing is a any more or less a by product of anything. It could be Pete. It could be Sherman. It could be the NFL.

People are so quick to try and connect and link things without a. Reviewing them in full context and 2. Allowing them to play out.

This is Pete's first big issue. So how is he "trying to figure it out" now? As if he's been letting it go for years? Come on... he could trade Sherman and we'd know "Pete doesn't play" same as BB. Maybe he'll try something else. But it's a stretch to say this has been some festering wound under the skin for years.

The human brain is wired to make connections. in an Abnormal Psych class the teacher ran an experiment. He said he had a concept in mind and we could ask yes or no questions for 5 minutes. At the end we were to write a paragraph on what we thought the concept was. Everyone had a cogent paragraph based on the questions asked. He then let us know that he had predetermined the order of his answers. The brain is wired to make connections, even though they maybe tenuous as best. I'm sure it's part of some survival mechanism as we had to make quick decisions, on limited info, when living out on the savannah with Lions, Tigers and Bears.

 

[Siouxhawk]

People seem to forget that Kam Chancellor and Michael Bennett have both broken ranks and caused issues within the organization. They seem to have either settled down or eventually been mollified by the organization's efforts.

The only takeaway from that, really, but a meaningful one nonetheless, is that this is Richard Sherman we're talking about. Most coaches would have trouble with this guy's mouth. That makes it harder to see as a problem of Carroll's making.

Great use of the word mollified :2thumbs:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

People seem to forget that Kam Chancellor and Michael Bennett have both broken ranks and caused issues within the organization. They seem to have either settled down or eventually been mollified by the organization's efforts.

The only takeaway from that, really, but a meaningful one nonetheless, is that this is Richard Sherman we're talking about. Most coaches would have trouble with this guy's mouth. That makes it harder to see as a problem of Carroll's making.

Right, but both those guys came back into the fold and stepped back in line as team leaders after their issues were hashed out.

Sherman doesn't seem to be doing the same thing.

I honestly don't know what his problem is, it's like he just has this weird personality flaw where he's incapable of contrition or admitting he's wrong. Is it pride?

But wtf, you're making a ton of money on a great team with a great organization in a world class city that has a change to win every single year for the next 5 years................why be a pain in the ass. This whole thing makes no sense to me at all.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^^ Back when Harbaugh was the 9er's head coach Hawks fans were pretty certain that the problem with Harbaugh and Sherman's frosty relationship was Harbaugh.

At this point it seems like more a of a two-way street, and they're both insanely competitive, prideful, and quite frankly a little nuts.

It doesn't mean that either of them aren't smart (they're both smart, and IMO Sherman's probably smarter than Harbaugh), but neither of them seem to be able to function particularly well over time in a team environment without causing blow-ups.

It's why if Harbaugh is able to last more than four years at Michigan -- longer than he was able to last in any prior stop without people getting rid of him or making no effort to keep him -- it's because they've basically resigned themselves to just giving him the castle and staying out of his way. Maybe that's how Sherman would best function too, but you don't really get that leeway as a player.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

People seem to forget that Kam Chancellor and Michael Bennett have both broken ranks and caused issues within the organization. They seem to have either settled down or eventually been mollified by the organization's efforts.

The only takeaway from that, really, but a meaningful one nonetheless, is that this is Richard Sherman we're talking about. Most coaches would have trouble with this guy's mouth. That makes it harder to see as a problem of Carroll's making.

Right, but both those guys came back into the fold and stepped back in line as team leaders after their issues were hashed out.

Sherman doesn't seem to be doing the same thing.

I honestly don't know what his problem is, it's like he just has this weird personality flaw where he's incapable of contrition or admitting he's wrong. Is it pride?

But wtf, you're making a ton of money on a great team with a great organization in a world class city that has a change to win every single year for the next 5 years................why be a pain in the ass. This whole thing makes no sense to me at all.

I think he just wants to win.

 

[Uncle Si]

I think he just wants to win.

It's the only impression I've got as well.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think he just wants to win.

It's the only impression I've got as well.

So the best way to win is to argue with coaches and teammates on the sideline and bully radio personalities?

Here all along I thought the best way to win was to work hard and be the best teammate you could be.

 

[hawknation2017]

As for PC, agreed that every team has players that get upset, but we're not having this coversation about every coach nor does every team necessitate this conversation. I think we're deep enough into PCs tenure on the Seahawks to conclude that the Seahawks under PC seem to be atypically afflicted with undisciplined behavior on the field (e.g. jumping offsides, trying to get in fights after games are effectively over, flipping off coaches from the field, etc,) and off-the field (e.g. fights and screaming matches on the sidelines, locker room fistfights between players, backbiting between players on social media, acting boorish to the sports media, the team getting repeatedly fined for players being too aggressive during practices). I mean heck, even Russell Wilson, who is maybe the most vanilla "good soldier" we've seen at the QB position in a decade backbit his coach in the media when PC innocuously said he wanted Wilson to further develop his understanding of the game.

We can debate if all of that is a coincidence or a consequence of PC's "player's coach" coaching style, but we can't pretend the conversation isn't happening, or that the Hawks aren't thought of around the league as pretty remarkably undisciplined team.

FWIW, to me, trying to shop Sherman reads a lot like someone who has realized they left the leadership reigns a little too loose, and is willing to move on from one of their best players to send a message that he's not gonna just fall on his sword for what he takes to be his previous mistakes. That's obviously just conjecture though.

Calling the Seahawks an undisciplined team is just stupid. No team, other than the Patriots, has been more consistently disciplined than the Seahawks under Pete Carroll.

The fact is everything you write, Popeye, has an agenda. It was not too long ago that you were predicting salary cap hell for the Seahawks, which never materialized. It's nothing more than concern trolling while pretending to be motivated by objectivity.

 

[hawknation2017]

^^^^ Back when Harbaugh was the 9er's head coach Hawks fans were pretty certain that the problem with Harbaugh and Sherman's frosty relationship was Harbaugh.

At this point it seems like more a of a two-way street, and they're both insanely competitive, prideful, and quite frankly a little nuts.

It doesn't mean that either of them aren't smart (they're both smart, and IMO Sherman's probably smarter than Harbaugh), but neither of them seem to be able to function particularly well over time in a team environment without causing blow-ups.

It's why if Harbaugh is able to last more than four years at Michigan -- longer than he was able to last in any prior stop without people getting rid of him or making no effort to keep him -- it's because they've basically resigned themselves to just giving him the castle and staying out of his way. Maybe that's how Sherman would best function too, but you don't really get that leeway as a player.

That's a very convenient way to look at it . . . for a 49ers fan. Getting rid of Harbaugh was an idiotic move. So too would be getting rid of Sherman without EXTRAORDINARY compensation.

Testing the trade market for Sherman is just smart. By doing so, we get Sherman to once again focus and reign in his behavior, so the Seahawks can maximize their potential to win another Super Bowl, while soliciting the possibility of the extraordinary compensation that would justify losing him.

 

[semiahmoo]

^^^^ Back when Harbaugh was the 9er's head coach Hawks fans were pretty certain that the problem with Harbaugh and Sherman's frosty relationship was Harbaugh.

At this point it seems like more a of a two-way street, and they're both insanely competitive, prideful, and quite frankly a little nuts.

It doesn't mean that either of them aren't smart (they're both smart, and IMO Sherman's probably smarter than Harbaugh), but neither of them seem to be able to function particularly well over time in a team environment without causing blow-ups.

It's why if Harbaugh is able to last more than four years at Michigan -- longer than he was able to last in any prior stop without people getting rid of him or making no effort to keep him -- it's because they've basically resigned themselves to just giving him the castle and staying out of his way. Maybe that's how Sherman would best function too, but you don't really get that leeway as a player.

That's a very convenient way to look at it . . . for a 49ers fan. Getting rid of Harbaugh was an idiotic move. So too would be getting rid of Sherman without EXTRAORDINARY compensation.

Testing the trade market for Sherman is just smart. By doing so, we get Sherman to once again focus and reign in his behavior, so the Seahawks can maximize their potential to win another Super Bowl, while soliciting the possibility of the extraordinary compensation that would justify losing him.

Well said. Management is jerking Sherman's choker-chain a bit to remind him who is actually in charge. Sherman then has his PR team try to convince the public he's also in on negotiating a possible trade. That's just a saving face effort which Sherman places a high value on. That's not to say we wouldn't give him up if the right offer presented itself. We would. He's getting older, a bit slower (and he was never that fast to begin with) and more prone to injury.

I'd put his changes of staying at about 60% at this point.

 

[semiahmoo]

You know, I know that in New England that Bill Belichick has seemingly jettisoned players each and every year throughout the years. I know that in a lot of cases, that's because of cap space issues. BUT, I just wonder, just wonder, if part of the reason is ALSO because Belichick doesn't want guys hanging around too long. Better to have a constant supply of fresh blood who is always hearing the message anew (constantly having fresh sets of hears to hear the same old message) ... than to have too many crusty old veterans hanging around who could have the potential to spread negativity and spoil things. When people hang around too long, that's when they start to see the chinks in the armor.
Veterans KNOW where the weak spots are and are at greater risk of becoming that complainer -- that rotten apple that just might spoil the rest of the bunch. Just a thought.

I've said this many times.

It was the first big criticism of Pete when he was hired, his critics said his rah rah "college style" of coaching would never work in the NFL because veterans wouldn't buy in.

So are we starting to see some of that criticism come home to roost now that he's deep into his tenure here? I'd say a little, yes.

Dave Wyman talks about this all the time when asked what's separates the good teams from the bad since the NFL is such a parity league..........and he says it's the buy in factor. Great teams and coaches continue to get their players to buy in, and thus produce the effort required to out will their opponents.

Maybe John and Pete are starting to figure this out, and thus the Sherman trade rumors are now running rampant.

Good point. Easy to buy in when you're winning big. Then we started to win ugly. The last couple seasons, we've started to lose ugly. If there is any residual discontent that is when it bubbles to the surface. As I've said before, the last Training Camp was a harbinger of things to come. Pete was all but ignored, even as he did his "c'mon guys - yeah!" routine. RW was off by himself even when he wasn't, with his new woman wandering around on the field with her son. It all just felt weird - felt off, and didn't feel nothing like a team ready to make a charge into the Super Bowl.

Last season confirmed that lack of desire from this team that was so evident in Training Camp.

 

[hawknation2017]

Good point. Easy to buy in when you're winning big. Then we started to win ugly. The last couple seasons, we've started to lose ugly. If there is any residual discontent that is when it bubbles to the surface. As I've said before, the last Training Camp was a harbinger of things to come. Pete was all but ignored, even as he did his "c'mon guys - yeah!" routine. RW was off by himself even when he wasn't, with his new woman wandering around on the field with her son. It all just felt weird - felt off, and didn't feel nothing like a team ready to make a charge into the Super Bowl.

Last season confirmed that lack of desire from this team that was so evident in Training Camp.

This hasn't been a problem that has affected wins or losses in any significant way. It hasn't been a harbinger of anything.

The two most significant factors affecting wins and losses have been (1) the lack of experience and talent on the offensive line and (2) injuries. The 3rd most significant factor would probably be the play calling and lack of consistent commitment to the running game, but I'm not going to get into that here.

Through the first 12 weeks of last season, we were on track to be #1 in scoring defense and overall DVOA for the 5th-consecutive year.

If they manage to improve the offensive line and avoid serious injuries this season, then none of this sewing-circle gossip will make any difference.

 

[semiahmoo]

Good point. Easy to buy in when you're winning big. Then we started to win ugly. The last couple seasons, we've started to lose ugly. If there is any residual discontent that is when it bubbles to the surface. As I've said before, the last Training Camp was a harbinger of things to come. Pete was all but ignored, even as he did his "c'mon guys - yeah!" routine. RW was off by himself even when he wasn't, with his new woman wandering around on the field with her son. It all just felt weird - felt off, and didn't feel nothing like a team ready to make a charge into the Super Bowl.

Last season confirmed that lack of desire from this team that was so evident in Training Camp.

This hasn't been a problem that has affected wins or losses in any significant way. It hasn't been a harbinger of anything.

The two most significant factors affecting wins and losses have been (1) the lack of experience and talent on the offensive line and (2) injuries. The 3rd most significant factor would probably be the play calling and lack of consistent commitment to the running game, but I'm not going to get into that here.

Through the first 12 weeks of last season, we were on track to be #1 in scoring defense and overall DVOA for the 5th-consecutive year.

If they manage to improve the offensive line and avoid serious injuries this season, then none of this sewing-circle gossip will make any difference.

Respectfully disagree. There were a lot of cheerleaders in here all last season saying everything was fine.
It wasn't. The end result and the off-season strife ( of which I warned was coming) has proven that out.

I currently enjoy 98.46% accuracy.

The team is a bit of a hot mess right now.

 

[hawknation2017]

Did you correctly predict that Earl Thomas would get hurt, Nostradumbus? Because I just have a hard time seeing how the sewing-circle gossip has had any practical effect on game results.

The sewing-circle gossip was at its absolute worst in 2014 with the Percy Harvin & then Marshawn Lynch drama. And none of that prevented us from going to the Super Bowl and coming one play away from a 2nd-consecutive championship.

What will have a practical effect? Having a healthy Earl Thomas, Russell Wilson, Tyler Lockett, Richard Sherman, etc. and improving the talent on the offensive line.

 

[Siouxhawk]

When someone writes that they have an accuracy rate of 98.46 percent, it usually means they are not sure of themselves and likely are on the failing end by that same percentile.

 

[semiahmoo]

It's actually gone up to 99.32%.

Been a good day!

 

[semiahmoo]

Did you correctly predict that Earl Thomas would get hurt, Nostradumbus? Because I just have a hard time seeing how the sewing-circle gossip has had any practical effect on game results.

The sewing-circle gossip was at its absolute worst in 2014 with the Percy Harvin & then Marshawn Lynch drama. And none of that prevented us from going to the Super Bowl and coming one play away from a 2nd-consecutive championship.

What will have a practical effect? Having a healthy Earl Thomas, Russell Wilson, Tyler Lockett, Richard Sherman, etc. and improving the talent on the offensive line.

Totally agree. That will certainly improve our prospects - on paper.
Hopefully it will also convert to actual victories on the field.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^^ Back when Harbaugh was the 9er's head coach Hawks fans were pretty certain that the problem with Harbaugh and Sherman's frosty relationship was Harbaugh.

At this point it seems like more a of a two-way street, and they're both insanely competitive, prideful, and quite frankly a little nuts.

It doesn't mean that either of them aren't smart (they're both smart, and IMO Sherman's probably smarter than Harbaugh), but neither of them seem to be able to function particularly well over time in a team environment without causing blow-ups.

It's why if Harbaugh is able to last more than four years at Michigan -- longer than he was able to last in any prior stop without people getting rid of him or making no effort to keep him -- it's because they've basically resigned themselves to just giving him the castle and staying out of his way. Maybe that's how Sherman would best function too, but you don't really get that leeway as a player.

That's a very convenient way to look at it . . . for a 49ers fan. Getting rid of Harbaugh was an idiotic move. So too would be getting rid of Sherman without EXTRAORDINARY compensation.

Testing the trade market for Sherman is just smart. By doing so, we get Sherman to once again focus and reign in his behavior, so the Seahawks can maximize their potential to win another Super Bowl, while soliciting the possibility of the extraordinary compensation that would justify losing him.

That's a very convenient way to look at it...for a Seahawks fan.

Sherman doesn't strike me as the type of guy who would get motivated by being shopped around. He seems way too confident, and quite frankly narcissistic, for that.

In any case I never claimed the 9ers were smart to fire Harbaugh. You're extrapolating on your own issues.