Harvin

[marko358]

the fact that bryan walters is getting any work in this offense at all is ridiculous.

There is no way that dude is better than Norwood or Richardson. He would maybe make 2 or 3 other rosters, if that.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Compared to RW he was Peyton Manning as far as pocket-hugging.

Question for you. Can we agree that Russell is worse at staying in the pocket when he should be as of late? As in, worse than say, the average last year?

Could this be due to the fact that he doesn't have a lot of faith in the OL?

That's the point I'm getting to, but I need to bait Sonic into agreeing with my statement, first. Shhhhhhh...I'm hunting wabbits.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Compared to RW he was Peyton Manning as far as pocket-hugging.

Question for you. Can we agree that Russell is worse at staying in the pocket when he should be as of late? As in, worse than say, the average last year?

Could this be due to the fact that he doesn't have a lot of faith in the OL?

Or WR's that are having a hard time getting open on time?

Seems like the majority of catches our WR's have are from scramble and plays Russell's extended. People like to bag on Russell for not being a good "progression" QB, but going through your progressions and completing passes is as much on the WR's and protection as it is on the QB.

 

[Wagon12]

Compared to RW he was Peyton Manning as far as pocket-hugging.

Question for you. Can we agree that Russell is worse at staying in the pocket when he should be as of late? As in, worse than say, the average last year?

Could this be due to the fact that he doesn't have a lot of faith in the OL?

Or WR's that are having a hard time getting open on time?

Seems like the majority of catches our WR's have are from scramble and plays Russell's extended. People like to bag on Russell for not being a good "progression" QB, but going through your progressions and completing passes is as much on the WR's and protection as it is on the QB.

Fair enough, yes.

I think this next game vs. the Rams will be a great "barometer" game. I mean, depending on what happens, we will all collectively exhale or...

Nevermind.

 

[SonicHawk]

Compared to RW he was Peyton Manning as far as pocket-hugging.

Question for you. Can we agree that Russell is worse at staying in the pocket when he should be as of late? As in, worse than say, the average last year?

Sure.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Sure.

Cool. Can we also agree that our O-line's pass protection has been bottom quarter of the NFL overall (for pass pro specifically) since we drafted Hustle Wilson?

 

[Ozzy]

Wilson doesn't have a problem going through his progressions. Cossell, Caplan and others have said he might be the best in the league after the first 3-4 names usually mentioned in that regard. He seems to give up a little early on guys lately though and I think that's a factor of the line play, the receivers dropping passes and not getting a ton of separation. He probably needs to pull the trigger a little more often and that is on him. I have never seen anyone close to the game say he struggles with progressions though outside of this thread.

 

[Wagon12]

Wilson doesn't have a problem going through his progressions. Cossell, Caplan and others have said he might be the best in the league after the first 3-4 names usually mentioned in that regard. He seems to give up a little early on guys lately though and I think that's a factor of the line play, the receivers dropping passes and not getting a ton of separation. He probably needs to pull the trigger a little more often and that is on him. I have never seen anyone close to the game say he struggles with progressions though outside of this thread.

Maybe he isn't even getting to his 2nd/3rd read before breaking the pocket? It's possible...

 

[Hawks46]

Yes indeed!

Don't know where Bevell got it into his head the Harvin could not play as a traditional WR!

I think he got it from Pete. Pete is too scared he going to get injured again so we get these silly bubble screens, jet sweeps and whatever the heck that abomination was to Walters.

In theory that makes sense, or at least it's plausible, but in reality it really doesn't.

Harvin gets thumped a lot harder by throwing all these screens around the LOS, running jet sweeps, and even running between the tackles. He's getting thumped by LBers and DLmen at times, whereas if we sent him out on routes, he'd get behind LBers and only take hits from guys in the secondary.

In honestly, I think Harvin is a victim of his own success. He's so good around the LOS, I think Pete/Bevell is using him at a sort of specialist. He's really good around the LOS, but like was posted, Minny used him in a variety of ways. How much harder would it be to cover Harvin if you didn't know if he was going out on a route, motioning into the backfield, motioning into a jet sweep, motioning into a screen, etc.

Right now defenses know exactly what we're doing with Harvin, and it involves varying degrees of being cute.

 

[RolandDeschain]

In honestly, I think Harvin is a victim of his own success.

Very possible. Even likely, perhaps. He should slap his OC (and head coach if necessary) and say "Yo dawg, use me plenty, but don't make me your everything."

 

[seedhawk]

Wilson doesn't have a problem going through his progressions. Cossell, Caplan and others have said he might be the best in the league after the first 3-4 names usually mentioned in that regard. He seems to give up a little early on guys lately though and I think that's a factor of the line play, the receivers dropping passes and not getting a ton of separation. He probably needs to pull the trigger a little more often and that is on him. I have never seen anyone close to the game say he struggles with progressions though outside of this thread.

I don't think he gives up on guys early, however, I do think just as the reciever breaks, we wind up with a tall OL and DL in the throwing lane. It isn't RW's fault. Basically, to me it looks like when pass blocking we are passive. We are not trying to move guys one way or another. Opposing DL get to pick their lane and stay there.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Did any of you guys even watch the video????

Almost all of the "highlights" were short passes and handoffs with the OCCASIONAL long pass.

In minny he was used mostly at the LOS just like in seattle, and the video just showed it. I don't know how any of you can watch the video and not see how similar it is.

The vikings got the ball to him near the LOS with open space. The seahawks are doing the same, but with more stupid handoffs.

 

[SonicHawk]

Sure.

Cool. Can we also agree that our O-line's pass protection has been bottom quarter of the NFL overall (for pass pro specifically) since we drafted Hustle Wilson?

Hustle. Heh.

Our o-line is at worst 20th. There are some very bad ones and we won a SB.

 

[marko358]

Did any of you guys even watch the video????

Almost all of the "highlights" were short passes and handoffs with the OCCASIONAL long pass.

Those short passes look like 60 yard go routes compared to what we've seen here.

 

[OkieHawk]

Most of those short passes were slants and hooks.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Did any of you guys even watch the video????

Almost all of the "highlights" were short passes and handoffs with the OCCASIONAL long pass.

In minny he was used mostly at the LOS just like in seattle, and the video just showed it. I don't know how any of you can watch the video and not see how similar it is.

The vikings got the ball to him near the LOS with open space. The seahawks are doing the same, but with more stupid handoffs.

I counted 4 handoffs and 1 bubble screen while watching the highlight video. The rest were short passes 3+ yards and many long passes that were 20+ yards. If you were really watching the video, you will also notice that the guy that edited the video keeps using some of the same plays (in different views) so it makes it look like a different play but in reality it's the same play. So you might of double or even triple counted the the handoffs or bubble screen and can mistaken some of the replay (different angles as well) of the kick returns or short pass plays as a handoff.

Sure Minny used Harvin like us but at the same time not really, he was used all the time in different positions, was a WR and RB, but right now we are only using him as an RB. Harvin took some good hits when going deep, this might be something that stopped Pete from playing Harvin that way. Remember the Saints game from last year, they was really going after Harvin. At the same time we need Harvin to stretch that field, just to open up some separtation.

 

[seahawk 17]

Music is horrible.

 

[OkieHawk]

Did any of you guys even watch the video????

Almost all of the "highlights" were short passes and handoffs with the OCCASIONAL long pass.

In minny he was used mostly at the LOS just like in seattle, and the video just showed it. I don't know how any of you can watch the video and not see how similar it is.

The vikings got the ball to him near the LOS with open space. The seahawks are doing the same, but with more stupid handoffs.

This video showcases how he can be used, and has been used. As I've already stated I've watched Vikings games with Harvin every year he was playing in MN. He was used as a WR past the LOS a lot more than is indicated by the video. It is hard to find a good highlight video portraying this though.

 

[Rob12]

This is what many of us have been saying.

He is capable of running routes NORTH of the LOS. I don't know where this whole thing started here where many believe that Percy "isn't really a wide receiver." He has been before. I agree that he's not a pure wide receiver, but even then, I really don't know what that means because he can run routes, he has great hands, and he gets good separation. He's not an over the top deep threat, but we don't need him to be. We just need this immensely talented player to do much more than what he is going now, which has really just been a glorified running back that this offense has mistakenly been built around, while our Beast takes a back seat.

He's an ultra talented and electric player. Let's move away from forcing the ball to him and trying to create space, because obviously that's not working behind the LOS. Let's get him north of that and see what he can do, because I truly believe our offense depends on it.

Free Percy!

 

[Rob12]

Did any of you guys even watch the video????

Almost all of the "highlights" were short passes and handoffs with the OCCASIONAL long pass.

In minny he was used mostly at the LOS just like in seattle, and the video just showed it. I don't know how any of you can watch the video and not see how similar it is.

The vikings got the ball to him near the LOS with open space. The seahawks are doing the same, but with more stupid handoffs.

Short passes, as in NORTH of the LOS? That's all many of us are asking for. Three catches for ZERO yards... How does that happen? I'm fine with short passes; I'm not at all suggesting that we send him on fly routes... But the best play I have seen Percy make as a receiver was that 17-yard completion last year against the Vikings... In the middle of the field. Am I right?

Let's cool it on the behind the LOS screens for a bit.