How I think Super Bowl XLIX will likely play out

Laloosh

New member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
8,688
Reaction score
0
Location
WA

HawkFan72

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
16,570
Reaction score
1
Location
Bay Area, CA
Thanks Kearly. I'm hoping we can avoid that last section and the Hawks do what the Hawks are capable of.
 

CodeWarrior

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
1,769
Reaction score
0
Great write up! Well- reasoned, and well-done, quite simply. Thanks for your post!
 

gulliver

New member
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
238
Reaction score
0
Luxurious post, Kearly. I like it.

FWIW, I can't see the value in talking about the pre-2014 Pats though. The fact that they secured Browner & Revis in the offseason, and that Jamie Collins is almost exactly 3x as productive this year as last, shows that the landscape is different for the NE defense.
 

Lords of Scythia

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
2,612
Reaction score
179
kearly":3hpy64r3 said:
How I think the Patriots offense will fare:

I think the Pats are a very good football team, every bit on par with Seattle. However, it is critical to note that this strength is derived from taking full advantage of the realities and conditions of the AFC. I don't mean that as a passive aggressive put down, but when you are used to playing teams built around 1st round pick QBs supported with slow defenses, it's not easy to adapt to the some of the tendencies that have dominated the NFC. This is especially true for a team like the Patriots who's success is built around precision, something which is impacted so negatively by teams built to win by disrupting their opponents.

Before the SB last year, I felt Seattle deserved to be a 10 point favorite, and I had all the respect in the world for Denver, who had been putting up dynasty level DVOA numbers themselves. The reason for the edge to Seattle? A quick glance at Denver's 2013 schedule showed a team that hadn't played a truly physical or freakish team all year. Sure, the Broncos dominated, but they dominated teams with no clear vision on defense. Teams that had little to no ability to frustrate or disrupt. Teams that sorely lacked speed on defense. With that kind of conference environment working in Denver's favor, their finesse style of offense dominated in historic fashion. But when that team faced an opponent that could actually make those easy plays suddenly feel fruitless, Denver got frustrated and imploded.

Did Denver play a bad game? Not really. They prepared poorly, yes, but their execution was mostly in line with what they had always done. They were simply not used to facing a super-fast defense with all-pro level tackling that made a YAC based offense completely shut down.

In this same way, there are signs that New England is a fish out of water against the NFC's fastest, nastiest juggernauts. The Pats lost to Carolina's fast and bruising defense in 2013. They were horrifically blown out by the 49ers in the Pats own stadium in 2012 (where Tom Brady had previously been undefeated in December) before mounting an insane comeback against the 49ers prevent D, only to ultimately lose (a game that I think cost Seattle the NFC West that year). They lost to Seattle in 2012, of course, and they also found a way to lose against a nasty Arizona D. The Pats did stomp the Rams that year, but the Rams are a notorious for being the NFL's most mercurial team.

The Pats did have success against the Lions in 2014, winning 34-9. But the Lions are more of an AFC style defense with their reliance on elite defensive line play to cover up for weak areas elsewhere. There really wasn't a team that New England played in 2014 that compares adequately to the fast and nasty style of NFC defenses they struggled against in 2013 and 2012.

If Super Bowl XLIX were somehow a best of seven series, the Pats could eventually acclimate and adjust. But there will only be one game, and New England will be at a handicap attempting to adjust with the 2014 version of their team facing such a defense for the first time. This handicap alone is probably worth a TD in Seattle's favor.

All that being said, I think New England will have more success than Denver did. Gronk aside, they are not really a YAC based offense, but more of a timing and 'take what the defense gives you' type. Seattle will happily give up a 5 yard reception if it means bruising a WR or TE. But who wins when this is what New England wants too? New England won't lack for long drives in this game.

The bigger question will be, can they finish them? As the red zone nears and the Seahawks become less willing to concede short completions, the Patriots will have to earn the final 20 yards, and risk interceptions to do so. In the 2012 'U Mad Bro' match (featuring a Patriots team that had a much higher offensive DVOA than the 2014 version), the Pats racked up an eye-popping 475 yards, but could only convert that gaudy yardage into 23 points. The biggest reason? Red zone interceptions. Once the field got small, Brady stopped getting the looks he was accustomed to seeing from slower, less talented AFC defenses.

Maybe the most amazing thing about those 475 yards was that it took New England 85 plays to get there. Just 5.6 yards per play, a number that is right around the NFL median (5.45 in 2012). It speaks to how efficient Brady was on that day, while passing (a then Tom Brady record) 58 times. Of the 85 plays New England ran, only 26 were carries.

I fully expect that trend to continue in this Super Bowl, as Seattle dominates slow RBs and Belichick will know this. Even before this game, Blount had served mostly as a decoy, except in instances where the Patriots opponent offered a miserable run defense.

Of course, this is still more success than Denver has ever had against Seattle, and the 2012 Pats game felt like a lot of points were left on the table.

But there is yet one more challenge the Patriots offense will face, and it might be the biggest one of them all. When the Patriots played Seattle in 2012, Wes Welker exploited Brandon Browner and the LOB as a whole. He took the top off our defense and scored on a bomb from Brady. Not only was that worth 7 points, but it forced Seattle to respect the deep ball all game, loosening up the short attack that is the Patriots bread and butter.

Fast forward to now. There is no more Wes Welker. No more Hernandez. None of the Patriots weapons are serious threats to beat Seattle deep. Tom Brady is 37 years old and doesn't quite have the arm he used to. If Seattle wants to treat the entire field like it's the red zone, like they did against Manning, what is Brady going to do to punish them for that? Nothing. It makes racking up another 475 yards on 85 plays MUCH more difficult than it was two seasons ago.

Since I expect the Patriots to be ultra pass heavy, their game plan won't change much whether they are leading or behind. Even if the Pats somehow grab a 14 point lead I expect them to remain aggressive, as it was Seattle's ability to stuff Lacy in predictable rushing downs that helped key their comeback against Green Bay. The downside of this game plan is that it is hella predictable, especially when you run it 60, 70, 80 times.

Overall, I expect New England's offensive output to strongly resemble Green Bay's in the NFCCG. Both teams have slow RBs that break tackles against lesser defenses, both have outstanding offensive lines and a precision passing attack with a QB who forces a 4 man rush with his blitz beating acumen. Aaron Rodgers had too much time to throw and did move the ball a bit better than we'd have liked, but at the end of the game the Packers still had less than 300 yards of offense to show for it. I think the Patriots will get closer to 350 or 400, and I think Brady might get to 300 yards, but this will only happen because of sheer pass attempt volume, not because Brady is carving the Seahawks up.

How I think the Patriots defense will fare:

The Patriots have a better defense than the Broncos had in 2013 when they were slaughtered in XLVIII. That said, the Broncos defense won a key matchup the helped delay the blowout, as the Seahawks didn't score their 2nd offensive TD until they were well into the 3rd quarter. That matchup advantage was Pot Roast on Unger, who more or less shut down Seattle's ability to run up the middle and kept Lynch quiet all game long. But the Broncos defense lacked for speed and was horribly prepared for Russell Wilson's dynamism. Once Wilson ran his first bootleg and it wasn't auto-blitzed, I knew the Seahawks were world champions in that instant. The Broncos were also very weak in the secondary and relied far too much on an aging Champ Bailey.

By contrast, the Patriots are very strong in the secondary, it is full of big names and needs no introduction. One thing I would point out about this secondary is that it is not equipped with ball hawks. Revis has averaged roughly 2 interceptions per year since 2010, and Browner is around the same number since 2011. McCourty is feast or famine for picks, like pretty much any safety not named Ed Reed.

Over the past two seasons, these three players have combined to start 80 games and intercept just 9 passes, roughly one interception combined between them for every three games they take the field together. This is all the more incredible considering the existence of Ryan Tannehill, EJ Manuel, and Geno Smith. The Pats secondary is built to cover and tackle, but it is not built to break opponents' backs. Wilson can take chances on these guys if need be.

But I don't think he will need to very often. Which is probably for the best, since this is far and away the greatest strength of a pretty good defense for the Patriots.

The more I study the Patriots run defense, the more confident I am that Seattle will give them serious trouble. The Pats do NOT look good against good zone blocking teams. Wilfork is not yet a bad player, but Baltimore slapped clown shoes on him in the Divisional round with their cut blocking. Baltimore runs a very similar brand of Power Zone to Seattle, and they had that defensive front reeling all game long, while the LBs stood still and let Forsett come to them deep down the field.

The Chiefs also put up 200+ rushing, though their version of zone is more finesse and most of the credit for the rushing performance in that game falls on the Chiefs RBs, who were stellar. The Pats defensive line wasn't terrible against KC, but their LBs were still being passive and never tried to stop Charles from dancing and finding lanes to exploit. In both games, the Patriots appear to have very poor run support from their LB group. And if those guys are making business decisions against slasher RBs, just imagine how it will go over with Lynch.

I found the run blocking dominance of the Baltimore game to be particularly encouraging. The Pats got their asses kicked by a very straight forward rushing attack, and it's not like they had to worry about the read option or a 4.55 speed QB either.

So long as our interior lineman can cut block Wilfork effectively, Seattle should be very effective running the football in this game, no matter who is carrying the rock. In fact, this might be a very good game for Michael to get some touches, as the Pats have been burned badly by slasher RBs this year.

Super Bowl XLIX will be played on a grass surface. As was mentioned to me by Scottemojo, the Pats record on grass this year is only 1-2, and it's a not a pretty 1-2 either. Back in December the Patriots beat the spread vs. San Diego on grass, which ended 8 consecutive games where the Patriots had failed to beat the spread on grass dating back to 2012. By contrast, Seattle has been very good on grass this season.

This all paints the picture of Seattle having a massive advantage in the trenches on Sunday. Especially since the Patriots pass rush is known to rely on coverage sacks and only ranked 19th in adjusted sack rate. Wilson is going to have all the time in the world to throw, especially if the Pats are wise enough to commit a defender to spy him.

It's not going to be easy for any of Seattle's targets to get open on Revis, but Browner received one of the lowest PFF scores for a starting corner this season (77th, IIRC). I'm not suggesting that Seattle will go after Browner, but they know him well and they will run at least a few plays designed to exploit him.

The biggest threat Seattle will have in the passing game will come from TEs and RBs, especially on plays were Wilson holds the ball or extends coverage time with his mobility and elusiveness. The Patriots are one of the very worst teams in the NFL (30th) at defending passes to RBs, and Lynch is one of the most adept receiving RBs in the NFL. The Pats are equally miserable at defending tight ends, and Luke Willson's 4.50 speed against the 4.64, 4.68, 4.80, and 4.91 times of the Patriots starting LB group might be the biggest mismatch in the entire game. With Moeki also playing and all three of Seattle's RB's being very good receivers, I expect less than half of Wilson's passes will be completed to WRs.

While the Patriots do have a good defense, the bad news for them is that the Seahawks offense may as well have been designed in a laboratory to be their worst nightmare. It's big strength on big weakness everywhere you look, aside from the WRs vs. Revis and McCourty. And that's not even getting into Wilson's impact as a runner or as a magic maker.

So it sounds like the Pats are going to get their asses kicked doesn't it? How can the Pats still win?

Lots of ways.

First, Tom Brady could play the game of his life. If he converts 75% of his passes and a similar rate of 3rd downs, while being money in the red zone, he could get to 30 points the way that Philip Rivers did in week 2. This is pretty much exactly what Brady did to survive the Baltimore game, despite the rest of his team getting their asses kicked up and down the field all game long. Austin Davis played a game like this against Seattle. Tom Brady is capable, but it will be hard as hell and will require some luck, since Baltimore's secondary is their biggest weak point and for Seattle it is their greatest strength.

Second, the Pats could bust out trick plays saved for this game and steal one the way the Rams did in week 7. It's worth noting that the biggest edge for the Pats in this game is on special teams.

Third, Seattle could shit the bed like they did in the Packers game.

Fourth, the injuries to Kam, Earl, and Sherm (or his absence from the game due to childbirth) change the entire complexion of Seattle's defensive outlook, just enough to lose if the game is tight enough. Tom Brady has the heart of a champion just like Russell, you can never count him out and he will rarely hang his head.

Fifth, Seattle draws up a terrible game plan. And it would need to be terrible. Typical Bevell would get the job done in this one without issue.

Sixth, the officials screw Seattle. I think this is incredibly unlikely given the publicity nightmare it would create.

But otherwise, I think this game represents one of the most favorable possible matchups for Seattle from the AFC side of the ledger, despite the fact that the Patriots are without question the class of their conference. The exploitable matchups overwhelmingly favor Seattle, as do the trends such as game surface, Brady's record against fast and nasty NFC defenses, and the fact that, given that ticket sales skew 5-to-1 in Seattle's favor, this will feel like a true road game for New England.

Don't be totally shocked if New England wins, but Seattle should have this one.

27-13 Hawks.
I herniated my scrotum trying to read this. Good points, though!
 

kf3339

Active member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
3,708
Reaction score
10
Great read Kearly. I'm at 34-12 in Aros prediction thread so pretty much agree with everything you said. My only concern still is turnovers. If we don't give the ball up it's a pretty easy win to me!
 

Hasselbeck

New member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
11,397
Reaction score
4
First off kearly - you wrote everything I have felt about this matchup for the last 10 days. Absolutely nailed it.

Just worth mentioning, as I was in Phoenix for the past couple of days.. that crowd is absolutely going to be 75% Seahawk fans. The Pats fans are so outnumbered there it's not even funny. For those that made it out to the San Diego roadie.. think about that crowd and double it. That's how many 12's turned out. And many of them I talked to are going to the game. It's not just a bunch of people going down there for the events leading up to the game.. they are going to the damn thing too.

The only way I see this team losing tomorrow night is if they basically beat themselves with dumb mistakes (dead ball fouls, blocking gaffes, a missed FG or two, etc)

And it could be my Seahawk blue colored glasses but I would be absolutely stunned if they played like they did 2 weeks ago - at least the first 55 minute version. I think the last 10 minutes is the more likely Seahawk team that will show up tomorrow.
 

Hawks46

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
7,498
Reaction score
0
Great writeup Kip. You just made me feel a ton better.

The few things I'm worried about:

stupid offensive penalties that get us behind the sticks. We're not going to pick up a lot of 3rd and 15's against their secondary.

We see the refs keep the flags in their pockts, see Irvin and Avril get tackled a ton, and Brady have all the time in the world to throw. I'm not worried about NE's WRs against our secondary, but given enough time, we won't be able to cover Gronk and Brady is nails on that short stuff.

Great comparison with Baltimore, I was going to mention that before I read your post. Forsett is half the back of Lynch and I can see Lynch, Turbin and Michael all being effective. I don't see Michael playing that much this game, as I think Carroll is still leary of his "right hand only" carry style and putting a ball on the ground. Turbin could also have a damned good game as he's a speed mismatch on all of their LBers and he's a great receiver as well.

If we get some (doesn't have to be elite) pressure on Brady, things will go a ton better for us. The Ravens have a better DL that we do, and the Pats didn't even try to run at them, instead choosing to attack their weak secondary. Our secondary isn't weak, and the only real weakness to our team in the interior run game. I can see Bellichick trying to run on us early to see if it will work. If we stop it, he'll move on. THe Patriots average something like 42 ppg when they rush for over 100 yards, conversely we lose more often than we win when an opponent goes over 100. Bill knows this and has to try it out.

If we can stop the run, and make Brady uncomfortable, this game won't be really close, and I like your score prediction. 1 TD and 2 FGs seems just about right. I don't know what the Hawks will score, but I had the Pats picked at 16. 1 TD and 3 FG's. It also helps that the Pats have averaged 17 points in their last 3 Superbowls.
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,705
Reaction score
1,742
Strongarm2399":2k305hj2 said:
Amazing post from a pats fan. Only thing I disagee with is welker being a deep threat. Lafell is much more of a deep threat than welker ever was. However brady is not the deep ball paser he once was. Not sure why as his arm strength is still there. The accuracy just isn't

I was trying to think of the Patriots receiver that, more than others, could be a problem deep, and Brandon LaFell, that's the guy. It will be interesting to see if Brady takes some deep shots to him, how his arm looks on them, and how that turns out.
 

Hasselbeck

New member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
11,397
Reaction score
4
olyfan63":32dk0lwq said:
Strongarm2399":32dk0lwq said:
Amazing post from a pats fan. Only thing I disagee with is welker being a deep threat. Lafell is much more of a deep threat than welker ever was. However brady is not the deep ball paser he once was. Not sure why as his arm strength is still there. The accuracy just isn't

I was trying to think of the Patriots receiver that, more than others, could be a problem deep, and Brandon LaFell, that's the guy. It will be interesting to see if Brady takes some deep shots to him, how his arm looks on them, and how that turns out.

LaFell is the type of WR this team shuts down. Not worried about him at all.
 
OP
OP
kearly

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
dukestar":2ze81tzc said:
Kearly, you state the NE is not a YAC offense. Can't find it now but I read that over 50% of TFB passing yards this year were YAC yards. If that is not a YAC offense then what would be considered a YAC offense? Is there a % that is the delineation between the two? BTW, thanks for awesome write up.

Here is what I said:

"Gronk aside, they are not really a YAC based offense, but more of a timing and 'take what the defense gives you' type."

Gronk and Edelman are YAC guys, but only Gronk is elite at it. Edelman posted about 60% of what Golden Tate did in YAC. The Patriots 3rd best YAC player ranked 214th in YAC this season. It's not like their offense is built around YAC. They have one elite YAC TE and one above average YAC WR. The rest are possession guys. Vareen is a good YAC RB, but he barely plays.

Optimus25":2ze81tzc said:
in regards to your mentioning of slasher rb's and michael, i really liked those few games where Turbin got work early.

Turbin is playing well and will probably do well in this game. I don't know if Michael will see any snaps, but Turbin will for sure. I just think Michael is the closest thing we have on our team to replicating Jamaal Charles and Justin Forsett. Turbin is a linear north/south RB. Lynch is half slasher, half power back. Michael is like a ghost, a guy that vanishes and reappears five yards later, always looking for the crease he needs to make a big play.
 
OP
OP
kearly

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
Strongarm2399":2jj4swvz said:
Amazing post from a pats fan. Only thing I disagee with is welker being a deep threat. Lafell is much more of a deep threat than welker ever was. However brady is not the deep ball paser he once was. Not sure why as his arm strength is still there. The accuracy just isn't

Classy post, thanks.

Was Welker a prototypical deep threat in 2012? No. Was he a huge mismatch on Brandon Browner going deep? Yes.

I don't mean this as smack talk, just being real: Lafell isn't going to threaten Seattle deep. And if they put him on Sherman, it will probably get Sherman to yawn. Literally yawn. He gets bored out there. The Seahawks just shut down Nelson and Cobb from going deep. The only great deep ball WR to give Seattle trouble all season was the uber-awesome Odell Beckham.
 
OP
OP
kearly

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
gulliver":2wdkyts8 said:
FWIW, I can't see the value in talking about the pre-2014 Pats though. The fact that they secured Browner & Revis in the offseason, and that Jamie Collins is almost exactly 3x as productive this year as last, shows that the landscape is different for the NE defense.

I never cited the 2013 and 2012 Patriots defenses. Only the 2014 version.
 

12thManHawkFan

New member
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
480
Reaction score
0
Thanks for the write-up kearly, i really enjoyed it and agree.

I think a critical part of this match will be Bevell's ability to stick to the run game. If he does I think it will give us a huge advantage, there are many examples of Lynch going full Beastmode late in games and I think that is what we should be hoping to see tomorrow. Heres the main reason why I think it's so critical-

Patriots Opponents
DVOA Rushing Rank and Results

Dolphins
2 Loss
Vikings
4 Win, The team has Matt Cassell What the hell do you expect?
Chiefs
5 Loss
Broncos
7 Win, Broncos fell behind 20-7 halfway through the 2nd Qtr and completely abandoned the run game
Dolphins
2 Win, Dolphins fell behind 30-13 in 3rd Qtr and completely abandoned the run game


The other teams they faced this season are ranked 10 and below, mostly way below, in terms of Rushing DVOA. In the results comments, when i say "completely abandoned the run game" i mean almost 100% completely abandoned the run game. Check the game logs, play-by-play. When some teams fall behind they air it out and forget what their strength is. We have seen this happen and bite us in the a$$ a few times. Let's hope we can stay committed tomorrow.
 
Top