How well did our OL protected our QB ?

[toffee]

Based on this research by PFF, our OL's deficiency was from 1.5 sec to 3 sec after snap. The curves clearly shown that our OL is below average in the time frame but league average after the initial 3 seconds. Could someone find out the sack or hurried rate that happened in that 1.5-3 second?


https://www.fieldgulls.com/2022/1/20/22 ... kson-pocic

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Based on this research by PFF, our OL's deficiency was from 1.5 sec to 3 sec after snap. The curves clearly shown that our OL is below average in the time frame but league average after the initial 3 seconds. Could someone find out the sack or hurried rate that happened in that 1.5-3 second?


https://www.fieldgulls.com/2022/1/20/22 ... kson-pocic

I think it has to be said, there are offensive lines that are of course, “better” than Seattle’s but it also has to do with offensive scheme and game planning.

There are simultaneously “worse” offensive lines than Seattle, yet, it is their scheme that makes their offensive line look better than Seattle’s.

If the defense is playing off coverage, and the rush can get their after 3 seconds, if the QB throws quickly, the rush will not get to the QB.

This is what Carroll’s offense cannot consistently do.

They do not throw the ball quickly when the corners are 10 yards from the receivers. Short quick shallow throws can move the ball quickly but Seattle doesn’t operate this way.

They live and die with the deep ball, and that’s the only way they operate.

Seattle’s offensive line rating is correct by these standards and metrics you included but if you gave another team Seattle’s offensive line, they could be playing with a different scheme and QB and could probably find more success and look better than playing under Carroll’s scheme.

And if you gave Seattle, let’s say, the Buccaneers or Packers offensive line, there would still be deficiencies and holes in the line because of Seattle scheme apparently requires a lifetime of blocking in order for Wilson to keep throwing deep balls without getting touched.

Change the offensive scheme and very likely QB, you can have different ratings with the current Seahawks offensive line.

 

[ZagHawk]

Here's what i want to know, how many more blitzes or extra rushers are sent the Seahawks way than the other teams? and again length that RW holds the ball vs the other QBs.

I haven't checked the full stats but to my understanding RW holds onto the ball way longer than other QBs (who get paid what he does). They seem to throw the ball in about 2 seconds flat, RW the times I watch and just start counting always seems to be holding the ball for a solid 3-4 seconds before he throws:

1) It means he will eventually have pressure because no O-line can hold forever
2) It also means opposing defenses can change their own scheme because they are less worried about getting killed by quick passes and instead will cover deep and send extra pass rushes leaving open the middle (because RW won't use it).

This has been an issue for a long time. Honestly RW is just as much at fault as the O-Line and the coaching for the O-line. To expect an O-Line to be able to hold for 4 seconds every play is unreasonable, and at the same time perhaps the other O-Lines for other teams can hold that long because the QB keeps the other defenses honest with quick passes (something RW has never excelled at).

 

[nwHawk]

What I want to know is how many time per game is Russell in “shotgun” compared to league average? As a pass rusher you see shotgun, especially an empty backfield, and you have to get giddy at the idea of rushing the QB. Right?

I would have to image it’s to allow Russ to see the field better, right? So, wouldn’t this be a situation where Wilson is creating his own problem? Am I the only one that recognizes that this has been a problem for several years?

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

What I want to know is how many time per game is Russell in “shotgun” compared to league average? As a pass rusher you see shotgun, especially an empty backfield, and you have to get giddy at the idea of rushing the QB. Right?

I would have to image it’s to allow Russ to see the field better, right? So, wouldn’t this be a situation where Wilson is creating his own problem? Am I the only one that recognizes that this has been a problem for several years?

That’s exactly what I have been thinking for years and years. Get Wilson a ladder.

In all seriousness, lining up in shotgun 90 percent of the time. is like easy pickings for a pass rusher.

How many more times does Chandler Jones need to sack Wilson for Wilson to understand maybe if I line up under the Center, it will not give Jones the added distance to speed up and kill me?

Many of the perceived offensive line issues are the direct result of how Wilson prefers to play and then he throws the offensive line under the bus.

Some leader, Wilson is.

 

[nwHawk]

Agreed.

Also, from under center QBs use 3,5 and 7 step drops as well as roll outs on passing downs. This partially slows down the pass rush as they have to diagnose that is going on and then react. If Russ is in shotgun and is at “his spot” most of the time he receives the snap doesn’t that make it easier on pass rushers? They can sprint upfield with their hair on fire. Might explain why the time to throw metric is so bad. Wether Russ wants to accept it or not he is part of the problem.

 

[toffee]

Looking at the chart, yes, we are below average from 1.5-3 sec, but we are only 5% or less below average. Not sure how to quantify those 5% into snaps ...

 

[pittpnthrs]

I wish I would have kept that stat that Wilson was pressured on average 2.1 seconds after the snap and that was from the shotgun position, but I didnt. As for lining up in the shotgun for the majority of snaps, I thought Wilson did that because he was constantly getting killed when he dropped back under center, not because of his height.

 

[toffee]

I wish I would have kept that stat that Wilson was pressured on average 2.1 seconds after the snap and that was from the shotgun position, but I didnt. As for lining up in the shotgun for the majority of snaps, I thought Wilson did that because he was constantly getting killed when he dropped back under center, not because of his height.

Let's assume the chart is accurate, or accurate enough, we are about 5% below league average, or shall we assume 15-20% below the top OL. May be we could see how many hurries and sacks Wilson took in 3 sec vs QB with top OL?? If Wilson suffer 15% more sacks/hurries, than it lines with our OL's deficiency.

 

[Jville]

Looking at the chart, yes, we are below average from 1.5-3 sec, but we are only 5% or less below average. Not sure how to quantify those 5% into snaps ...

Such two dimensional plots restrict graphs to charting only 2 variables from multi-variable events. Resulting in a lot of ambiguity as to what can be inferred from such 2 dimensional plots. Inviting a confluence of multiple inferences. In my opinion, such limited plots are not all that useful in supporting a conclusion about pressures with any useful degree of certainty.

 

[John63]

I wish I would have kept that stat that Wilson was pressured on average 2.1 seconds after the snap and that was from the shotgun position, but I didnt. As for lining up in the shotgun for the majority of snaps, I thought Wilson did that because he was constantly getting killed when he dropped back under center, not because of his height.

He did but that does not fit their narrative so it has to be his height. You need to understand they are trying to everything is Wilson's fault.

There is a stat posted in this foru m showing Wilson is the most sacked, hit, hurried, and pressured Qb in under 2.5 seconds. If an oline can hold up for 2.5 seconds that is an oline problem.

That aside here you go enjoy

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

Wilson time to throw 2.4 seconds 2021

For those saying Geno throw faster wrong, he was at 2.5

In fact, lets look at the last few years
2021 2.4
2020 2.7
2019 2,5
2018 2.5
2017 2.6
2016 2.3
2015 2.3


Wow ahh so his avg time to throw over that time frame is 2.47 given an oline should hold for 2.5 seconds seems to me that he should not be sacked, hit, hurried, and pressured as much as he is.

Now keep in mind I don't just put this on the oline I think the system used had a lot to do with it as well.

Now while some are pointing out Wilson cause of some of the sacks let's also keep i n mind Wilson saves a lot of sacks as well.

 

[nwHawk]

John, can you let go of the “they are out to get Wilson” mindset. Geewhiz. You act like you are Russell’s Mom. We know you love him, but many on this board are “Seahawks” fans and want this “team” to win. Sometimes you have to talk about difficult topics to advance or correct issues.

 

[toffee]

I wish I would have kept that stat that Wilson was pressured on average 2.1 seconds after the snap and that was from the shotgun position, but I didnt. As for lining up in the shotgun for the majority of snaps, I thought Wilson did that because he was constantly getting killed when he dropped back under center, not because of his height.

He did but that does not fit their narrative so it has to be his height. You need to understand they are trying to everything is Wilson's fault.

There is a stat posted in this foru m showing Wilson is the most sacked, hit, hurried, and pressured Qb in under 2.5 seconds. If an oline can hold up for 2.5 seconds that is an oline problem.

That aside here you go enjoy

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

Wilson time to throw 2.4 seconds 2021

For those saying Geno throw faster wrong, he was at 2.5

Nice read, thanks for the link!

2.4 sec isn't great, some QB had more time, but according to your article, 2.4 sec is the same time enjoyed by Josh Allen, Mahome, Burrow, Stafford, Prescot, Murray, Jimmy G, Marc Jones; and is more time than Brady, Rodgers, Tannehill, and My Gosh, Big Ben and Tua only had 2.2 sec. If one would to trust your link, our OL was average.

It would be interesting to find out the sack/hurry Wilson suffered within the 0-2.5 seconds, vs after 2.5 seconds.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

I wish I would have kept that stat that Wilson was pressured on average 2.1 seconds after the snap and that was from the shotgun position, but I didnt. As for lining up in the shotgun for the majority of snaps, I thought Wilson did that because he was constantly getting killed when he dropped back under center, not because of his height.

He did but that does not fit their narrative so it has to be his height. You need to understand they are trying to everything is Wilson's fault.

There is a stat posted in this foru m showing Wilson is the most sacked, hit, hurried, and pressured Qb in under 2.5 seconds. If an oline can hold up for 2.5 seconds that is an oline problem.

That aside here you go enjoy

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

Wilson time to throw 2.4 seconds 2021

For those saying Geno throw faster wrong, he was at 2.5

In fact, lets look at the last few years
2021 2.4
2020 2.7
2019 2,5
2018 2.5
2017 2.6
2016 2.3
2015 2.3


Wow ahh so his avg time to throw over that time frame is 2.47 given an oline should hold for 2.5 seconds seems to me that he should not be sacked, hit, hurried, and pressured as much as he is.

Now keep in mind I don't just put this on the oline I think the system used had a lot to do with it as well.

Now while some are pointing out Wilson cause of some of the sacks let's also keep i n mind Wilson saves a lot of sacks as well.

John, Wilson isn’t without his faults and discussing how we plays is perfectly fine.

Wilson is very much open to criticism as anyone else on the team including coaches.

What’s so wrong about making a hypothesis that Wilson has trouble seeing the field when he under Center?

Your never wondered why Wilson plays in shotgun so much?

You never considered could it be better for the offensive play calling if Wilson switches it up sometime and plays under Center?

You don’t do 3 step and 7 step drops when you play in shotgun.

3 and 7 step drops are considered timing passes in which Wilson does not do.

Maybe if he does it can change the flow and rhythm of the game?

But if anything seems like a shot at Wilson, you will defend him, right?

That’s why Wilson has become coddled by Carroll.

Carroll brought in Shotty to criticize Wilson cause Carroll was too afraid to do so himself.

And then long and behold, Shotty was let go.

Wilson has been coddled tremendously by Carroll.

Remember when Sherman told Wilson he “f’in sucks!” in practice?

Sherman was eventually let go because he appeared to be not such a fan of Wilson’s all the time and among other things as well.

Wilson has been incredibly coddled and Wilson can be criticized just as any player and coach.

Wilson isn’t above anyone else.

 

[toffee]

I wish I would have kept that stat that Wilson was pressured on average 2.1 seconds after the snap and that was from the shotgun position, but I didnt. As for lining up in the shotgun for the majority of snaps, I thought Wilson did that because he was constantly getting killed when he dropped back under center, not because of his height.

He did but that does not fit their narrative so it has to be his height. You need to understand they are trying to everything is Wilson's fault.

There is a stat posted in this foru m showing Wilson is the most sacked, hit, hurried, and pressured Qb in under 2.5 seconds. If an oline can hold up for 2.5 seconds that is an oline problem.

That aside here you go enjoy

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

Wilson time to throw 2.4 seconds 2021

For those saying Geno throw faster wrong, he was at 2.5

In fact, lets look at the last few years
2021 2.4
2020 2.7
2019 2,5
2018 2.5
2017 2.6
2016 2.3
2015 2.3


Wow ahh so his avg time to throw over that time frame is 2.47 given an oline should hold for 2.5 seconds seems to me that he should not be sacked, hit, hurried, and pressured as much as he is.

Now keep in mind I don't just put this on the oline I think the system used had a lot to do with it as well.

Now while some are pointing out Wilson cause of some of the sacks let's also keep i n mind Wilson saves a lot of sacks as well.

John, Wilson isn’t without his faults and discussing how we plays is perfectly fine.

Wilson is very much open to criticism as anyone else on the team including coaches.

What’s so wrong about making a hypothesis that Wilson has trouble seeing the field when he under Center?

Your never wondered why Wilson plays in shotgun so much?

You never considered could it be better for the offensive play calling if Wilson switches it up sometime and plays under Center?

You don’t do 3 step and 7 step drops when you play in shotgun.

3 and 7 step drops are considered timing passes in which Wilson does not do.

Maybe if he does it can change the flow and rhythm of the game?

But if anything seems like a shot at Wilson, you will defend him, right?

That’s why Wilson has become coddled by Carroll.

Carroll brought in Shotty to criticize Wilson cause Carroll was too afraid to do so himself.

And then long and behold, Shotty was let go.

Wilson has been coddled tremendously by Carroll.

Remember when Sherman told Wilson he “f’in sucks!” in practice?

Sherman was eventually let go because he appeared to be not such a fan of Wilson’s all the time and among other things as well.

Wilson has been incredibly coddled and Wilson can be criticized just as any player and coach.

Wilson isn’t above anyone else.

I agree with you. As a matter of fact, I advocated to trade Wilson last off-season for four reasons:

1. The dysfunctional relationship between Pete and Russ, sort of inmates running the asylum.
2. Declining trade value that comes with aging, more injury prune and lost of athleticism due to aging.
3. Wilson's increasingly unwillingness to play to his strength, ie to function as game manager in Peteball.
4. Wilson wanted to leave, naming 4 destinations, no doubt caused by (1) and (3).

I couldn't see us winning super bowl in the next two years, after that Wilson will be a FA and we shall get very little in trade value. I considered myself a diehard Russell Wilson fan, but I am a Hawks fan first or foremost.

 

[John63]

John, can you let go of the “they are out to get Wilson” mindset. Geewhiz. You act like you are Russell’s Mom. We know you love him, but many on this board are “Seahawks” fans and want this “team” to win. Sometimes you have to talk about difficult topics to advance or correct issues.

really try looking at the thread the first thing they did when they saw the number showing we were bad between 1-25 was to talk about how Wilson was the reason so no. I will not and FYI I also stated it was not just the oline but the system.

 

[John63]

I wish I would have kept that stat that Wilson was pressured on average 2.1 seconds after the snap and that was from the shotgun position, but I didnt. As for lining up in the shotgun for the majority of snaps, I thought Wilson did that because he was constantly getting killed when he dropped back under center, not because of his height.

He did but that does not fit their narrative so it has to be his height. You need to understand they are trying to everything is Wilson's fault.

There is a stat posted in this foru m showing Wilson is the most sacked, hit, hurried, and pressured Qb in under 2.5 seconds. If an oline can hold up for 2.5 seconds that is an oline problem.

That aside here you go enjoy

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

Wilson time to throw 2.4 seconds 2021

For those saying Geno throw faster wrong, he was at 2.5

In fact, lets look at the last few years
2021 2.4
2020 2.7
2019 2,5
2018 2.5
2017 2.6
2016 2.3
2015 2.3


Wow ahh so his avg time to throw over that time frame is 2.47 given an oline should hold for 2.5 seconds seems to me that he should not be sacked, hit, hurried, and pressured as much as he is.

Now keep in mind I don't just put this on the oline I think the system used had a lot to do with it as well.

Now while some are pointing out Wilson cause of some of the sacks let's also keep i n mind Wilson saves a lot of sacks as well.

John, Wilson isn’t without his faults and discussing how we plays is perfectly fine.

Wilson is very much open to criticism as anyone else on the team including coaches.

What’s so wrong about making a hypothesis that Wilson has trouble seeing the field when he under Center?

Your never wondered why Wilson plays in shotgun so much?

You never considered could it be better for the offensive play calling if Wilson switches it up sometime and plays under Center?

You don’t do 3 step and 7 step drops when you play in shotgun.

3 and 7 step drops are considered timing passes in which Wilson does not do.

Maybe if he does it can change the flow and rhythm of the game?

But if anything seems like a shot at Wilson, you will defend him, right?

That’s why Wilson has become coddled by Carroll.

Carroll brought in Shotty to criticize Wilson cause Carroll was too afraid to do so himself.

And then long and behold, Shotty was let go.

Wilson has been coddled tremendously by Carroll.

Remember when Sherman told Wilson he “f’in sucks!” in practice?

Sherman was eventually let go because he appeared to be not such a fan of Wilson’s all the time and among other things as well.

Wilson has been incredibly coddled and Wilson can be criticized just as any player and coach.

Wilson isn’t above anyone else.

opinions vary glad you have an opinion! wish you had more facts to support it buts that's okay

 

[chris98251]

Well would be interesting to see that under situations, what is time when we use play action, what is time when we have empty backfield and he is under center and when he is in shot gun.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Sherman was eventually let go because he appeared to be not such a fan of Wilson’s all the time and among other things as well.

Sherman was not let go due to his relationship with Wilson. Just stop. Sherman was let go because he didnt agree with Carrolls philosophy of dumping everything on the defenses lap and of course his contract.

 

[toffee]

Well would be interesting to see that under situations, what is time when we use play action, what is time when we have empty backfield and he is under center and when he is in shot gun.

Basing on stats from John63, our Russ had as much pocket time, 2.4 sec., as Josh Allen, Mahome, Burrow, Stafford, Prescot, Murray, Jimmy G, Marc Jones; and had more time than Brady, Rodgers, and Tannehill as they only had 2.3 sec, my Gosh, Big Ben and Tua only had 2.2 sec.

This stat on pocket time could be misleading if some of those QB got rid of the ball before the pocket collapsed. The pocket might collapse at 2.4sec, but the ball was out of there long before, so the QBs might still be hit, but no effect on the pass.