I think we need to talk about Wilson V Luck for a change

[SomersetHawk]

I don't think Seattle would trade Wilson for Luck, nor would Indy trade Luck for Wilson.

I think if the 2011 draft were to be redone today, Luck would still be the #1 overall pick. Wilson would be the #2 overall pick. RGIII would fall out of the 1st round, Foles would move up significantly.

They'd all still be in College.

However, a 2011 redraft would be absolutely fascinating, not so sure Cam would go first anymore.

That draft also had Von Miller, AJ Green, Julio Jones, JJ Watt, Tyron Smith, (cough) Patrick Peterson, Aldon Smith (cough), Robert Quinn, Mike Pouncey, DeMarco Murray, Justin Houston, Julius Thomas and of course Richard Sherman among others.

 

[WilsonMVP]

I think some of the reasons he doesn't get rated as high by a lot of people are because of his height, his draft round, the team he plays for, and his race.

ESPN Mike and Mike, something like this:

He is not showy, he doesn't play spectacularly, what he is is an excellent player on an excellent team, and he will not make many mistakes.

That's probably why he doesn't get much press, and why he may continue to get underrated as a quarterback.

Thinking about his OT drive yesterday, still gives me the chills.

If I had the time, I'd find out TD to INT ratios for all the big name quarterbacks right now. I'm guessing Russell would be #1.

Career or for this year?

Active Leaders with 1500 passes

Rodgers 3.64 (#1)
Brady 2.7 (#2)
Manning 2.27 (#3)
Rivers 2.16 (#4)
Brees 2.06 (#5)

Then you have these 2 which obv havent thrown 1500 times yet
Luck 1.7
Wilson 2.73


I like the TD% stat as well
Wilson 6.5%
Rodgers 6.3%
Manning 5.8%
Romo 5.5%
Brady 5.4%
Rivers 5.4%
Brees 5.3

AND......

Luck 4.2

Brilliant... thanks. And I guess I shouldn't be surprised Rodgers is that high up there. Wilson # 2.

TD% stats. Wilson # 1 !!

Ya it really is amazing that when you take away Lucks yards he is below average or average in a TON of catergories...I mean for god sakes in TD% he is mixed in with the LIkes of Vick, Fitzpatrick, Schaub, Cassel, Hasselbeck and Freeman

 

[scutterhawk]

I don't get our tireless infatuation with this debate.

Why can't both QB's be REALLY good? Why do we have to pick sides? "Better" is a nebulous word that cannot be quantified, so why do we keep trying?

Both QB's are awesome and will be awesome for a long time, so let's move on and just be happy we've got one of the two best young QB's in the league that literally EVERY other team wishes they had.

Hesus Christie, why do we have to pick sides you ask??, Russell Wilson is a Seahawk, OUR Seahawk Quarterback and unless your mind covets having someone to take his place (Luck), there is no side to pick, because Luck is NOT better than Wilson, regardless how many Yards he passes per game, especially if he's not winning.
He throws lots of Yards, but he also throws a lot of picks too....Law of average.
The better question is, WHY hasn't Luck's, Manning's, Rodgers', Breese's, Brady's Head Coach's gotten themselves a ground pounding RB to take pressure off of those QB's?
THE RUN SETS UP THE PASS ......THE PASS SETS UP THE RUN.

 

[El Caliente]

Since joining this board I have moved from being on the fence regarding Luck vs Wilson, to being pro-Wilson. I think he is a top 5 qb, and by seasons end, he will be a top 3 qb (lets face it Brady looks like he is slipping off of Mount Rushmore) regarding sustainable success.

I like Wilson, and I hope that you guys don't pay him enough when he is a FA so that we (the Saints) can sign him to replace an aging Drew Brees (more than wishful thinking on my part).

 

[El Caliente]

I don't think Seattle would trade Wilson for Luck, nor would Indy trade Luck for Wilson.

I think if the 2011 draft were to be redone today, Luck would still be the #1 overall pick. Wilson would be the #2 overall pick. RGIII would fall out of the 1st round, Foles would move up significantly.

It is sad seeing that. He had the potential to be another Randall Cunningham or Steve Young, but the Shannahans treated him like an animal, and now he is as good as a race horse with a bum knee.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The better question is, WHY hasn't Luck's, Manning's, Rodgers', Breese's, Brady's Head Coach's gotten themselves a ground pounding RB to take pressure off of those QB's?
THE RUN SETS UP THE PASS ......THE PASS SETS UP THE RUN.

Because those QB's are making 20M a year, and Russell's making 600k, so we've had the luxury the past three years to afford to pay a RB of Lynch's caliber 6M a year.

Believe me, we're about to find out how hard it is to keep BOTH a Pro Bowl QB and RB next year.

 

[El Caliente]

I can't speak for those other teams, but I can speak for the Saints. Brees has had on several occasions had good rb's behind him, rb's that could run as well as they could catch a pass. From Deuce, to Reggie Bush, to Pierre Thomas, to Joque Bell, to Chris Ivory, to Mark Ingram, to Khiry Robinson. We have had rb's that have shown that they can run, and run well, it's just in our system we put so little emphasis on running (and still do if you ask me) that you have Brees throwing 900 passes a game, while our rb's only get 6 touches combined. It's foolish. When we won it all our run game was solid. When we went to the NFC title game in 06 our running game was solid. For some reason we just don't do it as much as we should. What you saw back in January in Seattle is how we should be playing offense.We beat Philly, and hung with you guys because we ran the ball, but we try getting too cute, and it bites us in the butt.

Your offense is built to last as you focus more on the run than you do the pass. That lasts.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Luck is better because he is tall and white.

Basically what most of these talking heads have concluded. *shrug*

Disagree. I think it's cuz so many experts had him "no better than a career backup" (Polian), "too short to be effective" (Kiper), etc. while they had Luck as "can't miss" and "the best QB draft prospect since Elway", etc.. I may be naïve here, but IMO race plays into this very little, if at all. These guys' egos are what it's all about.

As for guys like Dildofer and Tim Hasselhoff (LOVE that one!) and Jaworski, they simply are unable to move themselves off the pure pocket passer QB viewpoint.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

As for guys like Dildofer and Tim Hasselhoff (LOVE that one!) and Jaworski, they simply are unable to move themselves off the pure pocket passer QB viewpoint.

I think pride also comes into play in this debate. All the so called "QB guru's" like Jaws, Hasselbeck and Dilfer pee'd all over Luck so much coming out of college, so now if there's even a shred of evidence to continue to support their claims that he's still the best young QB, they're going to stick by their guns as long as they can.

But don't worry, after another 3-4 years of us winning another SB or two and Luck continuing to wallow on a mediocre team they'll eventually change their tune.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Since joining this board I have moved from being on the fence regarding Luck vs Wilson, to being pro-Wilson. I think he is a top 5 qb, and by seasons end, he will be a top 3 qb (lets face it Brady looks like he is slipping off of Mount Rushmore) regarding sustainable success.

I like Wilson, and I hope that you guys don't pay him enough when he is a FA so that we (the Saints) can sign him to replace an aging Drew Brees (more than wishful thinking on my part).

Never happen Pete and John have a plan and it's a good one as you see.

As to the actual value of Wilson v Luck if the draft were redone? Wilson had no business being any lower then the 3rd pick in the 1st round if you actually watched him and knew his statistics in college. I don't blame anybody for taking Luck or RGIII at 1 or 2 given Luck has the protoypical skillset and RGIII had the look of a better Randall Cunningham or Micheal Vick.

 

[El Caliente]

I think its time to start talking about Brandon Weeden taking his place on the Mount Rushmore known as the 2012 draft qb class.

Man, the Brown literally could have taken any of the following 4 qb's in that draft, and come out better than they did.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Wilson is not 7-0 against the elite.

The Seahawks are.

Nope, wilson is.

 

[HawkWow]

I don't think Seattle would trade Wilson for Luck, nor would Indy trade Luck for Wilson.

I think if the 2011 draft were to be redone today, Luck would still be the #1 overall pick. Wilson would be the #2 overall pick. RGIII would fall out of the 1st round, Foles would move up significantly.

It is sad seeing that. He had the potential to be another Randall Cunningham or Steve Young, but the Shannahans treated him like an animal, and now he is as good as a race horse with a bum knee.

^ Crazy talk (but I don't care enough about any of them to elaborate and/or beat a dead horse).

On topic, I think it near impossible to call Wilson superior to Luck, vice versa or Manning better than Brady, Favre better than Rodgers, etc. etc. A fun exercise and conversation starter but just too many intangibles to determine a clear cut victor (imo) but that's why such debates live on forever. I say that in a good way. Such comparisons keep it fresh.

But on Wilson...like many of you, I think I've watched the best QBs to ever play this game...with a couple of the older guys, like Unitas, aside. I've watched these guys intently. So much so that I should be able to pull a name out of thin air that Wilson reminds me of. I can't. Some say Tarkenton and I say Wilson is better than Tark was. Tark was more magician than QB when compared to Wilson, imo.

One reason for my struggle is because no single QB pops into my head. Instead, I see 3, then 4 and now MHgirl throws the name Aikman into the mire. A year ago, I would have scoffed at such a comparison, even though Russ, while improved, hasn't really changed that much. It's just now he's established enough history (!) to warrant such comparison. Aikman was as accurate a QB as I've ever seen and Russ is showing that same accuracy today. And so the Frankenstein thing continues. I see so many QBs in Russ. He thinks on his feet and makes plays like Young and manages a game (yes) like Montana. He is displaying some Favre tendencies and heroics, but without the LB mentality or desire to throw stupid ints.

Brees comes to mind, but IMO, Wilson is much more dangeruss and I believe sports a better arm, better legs. Wilson, imo, is as good, if not better than his idol right now. It's just mind boggling what this kid has done and scary when you think about what he can be. I said this in a different thread but will say it again here. RW's dad did some job with this kid's persona and I wish he were alive to see the monster he helped create. Hawk fans have waited an eternity for a QB like this (so let's get him some damn protection, Pete).

Edit...here's my comparison for today: Staubach.

 

[El Caliente]

Brees comes to mind, but IMO, Wilson is much more dangeruss and I believe sports a better arm, better legs. Wilson, imo, is as good, if not better than his idol right now. It's just mind boggling what this kid has done and scary when you think about what he can be. I said this in a different thread but will say it again here. RW's dad did some job with this kid's persona and I wish he were alive to see the monster he helped create. Hawk fans have waited an eternity for a QB like this (so let's get him some damn protection, Pete).

I would buy that. They sport the same stature, and are equally competitive. If San Diego had a defense similar to Seattle's current defense Brees probably would have had won a super bowl or two before he came to the Saints (if he would have come at all). He had a very similar situation to Russ, playing with avg. wr's, but with a HOF rb in LT.

At this juncture in their careers I would take Wilson.