Interesting take on Pete Carroll.....

[IndyHawk]

I think we see Pete's unwillingness to change everytime we watch our offense struggle to move the ball a few yards before going 3 and out, and then move the ball at will when the offense focuses on what works when in in desperation mode to win the game.

Pete would argue that throwing it around and going up tempo keeps the defense on the field too long and takes risks with Russell's health getting hit over and over.

But that's happening ANYWAY! So holy moly just spread it out and unleash Russell. I got it when he was in his first couple years, he didn't have command of the offense or knew how to read defenses very well.

But he does now, so enough already with the predictable plodding run game that we don't even have the personnel to run.

You can still pass short and let the clock run while lined up.I just don't think RW can see over the line to do slants like Tom Brady which limits him.I think he has lost speed to do RO ect It is very fustrating to see and it's not something I thought we would be saying nowadays but the truth hurts.

 

[Scorpion05]

This basically nails it. I love Pete but he needs to evolve his coaching to adapt with what we have. However, I do feel his gamble, as always is that the O-line will figure it out eventually and that we have a stable of backs to carry the load for November, December, and January

 

[CodeWarrior]

The more I watch the Seahawks this season the more I feel as if we have been backed into a corner. We pay Russell big money. From this year and into the future Russell will account for 12 to 15% of our salary cap single handedly. At that level of cap allocation Russell has to be dominant. We have to turn the reigns of the offense over to him and live and die by his performance. Pete's philosophy is great, but seems somewhat incompatible with paying a marquee quarterback unless you can find late round gems, which we just have not been able to do as of late.

I feel the days of winning with 18 to 23 pass attempts by Russell are over. We just don't have the horses up front to play that style of ball and have to let go of that approach if we are to progress.

 

[xgeoff]

Pretty much nails it, IMO.

Point 5, which states you can't get good talent unless you consistently pick in the top 15 is absurd. Every year we see quality, All-Star level talent get chosen after the top 15. And you also see bust after bust for those guys chosen in the top 15. Look at Richard Sherman for the former, and Luke Joeckel for the latter. But there are many, many more examples throughout the league.

So no, pretty much doesn't nail it...

 

[Boycie]

Some valid points, but it still hangs it's hat on a false narrative. That without Lynch, the running production fell apart. That's not true, as they continued to be able to run even after Lynch sat most of his last year.

The running game didn't fall apart until Wilson was hurt last year. Look at before Wilson arrived and Seattle was a middle of the road running team, even with Lynch. Lynch provided some attitude and cushion to below average OL effort, but it's not true that he "carried" the run game.

When Rawls was healthy he ran really well and effective. Who was on the O-line then?

 

[cymatica]

The more I watch the Seahawks this season the more I feel as if we have been backed into a corner. We pay Russell big money. From this year and into the future Russell will account for 12 to 15% of our salary cap single handedly. At that level of cap allocation Russell has to be dominant. We have to turn the reigns of the offense over to him and live and die by his performance. Pete's philosophy is great, but seems somewhat incompatible with paying a marquee quarterback unless you can find late round gems, which we just have not been able to do as of late.

I feel the days of winning with 18 to 23 pass attempts by Russell are over. We just don't have the horses up front to play that style of ball and have to let go of that approach if we are to progress.

If we keep tate, invest in o'-line instead of harvin and graham then we probably are fine and able to keep everyone else

 

[Hyak]

Pete's philosophy is fine and proven to work. The principles - dominant, physical running game, explosive and efficient passing game, and a great defense - work in any era and in any weather conditions (i.e. January). That said, he and JS have somehow strayed from that in a variety of ways since 2013.

1. Harvin trade, which in essence allowed Tate, a far better and reliable player, to leave in FA.
2. Graham/Unger trade, more so because Graham's fit in the offense is questionable.
3. Letting Okung go without any plan in place for a viable replacement. The fact is that the offense has been much more erratic since Okung left.
4. Drafting guys early as tackles when it doesn't appear they can play tackle (Odihambo/Ifedi).
5. Cutting Jhari Evans to be cheap and young only to see Evans playing well elsewhere.
6. Signing Lacy and Joeckel to deals that seem to be way above their market in lieu of a viable starting OT.

Meanwhile, they are headed to the point where the defense ages at once and goes from being elite to overpaid.

 

[xgeoff]

If we keep tate, invest in o'-line instead of harvin and graham then we probably are fine and able to keep everyone else

If we invest in the O-line?! How much more draft capital and investment do you want to throw at it? We spent a ton of capital on the O-line, we just can't evaluate talent there.

We cut Jahri Evans and he went on to have an outstanding year for the Saints. Ifedi was a first rounder, Britt a second, Odhiambo a third and Glowinski a fourth.

This repeated narrative that we have not invested in the line is patently false and needs to stop.

 

[hawk45]

When Rawls was healthy he ran really well and effective. Who was on the O-line then?

Let's see, game 5 v Bengals when he went off:

LT - Okung
LG - Britt
C - Drew Nowak
RG - Sweezy
RT - Garry Gilliam

So they still had Okung and Sweezy, two starting-caliber players who could run-block that this team doesn't have.

Also Britt never was awful at run-blocking, on the Cincy Rawls highlights he looks good.

My quick take is that on the left side Rawls found yards at the POA without needing a cut-back. On runs to the right, huge cutback lanes were there because the left side did a good job of sealing off defenders.

We now have Odhiambo and Joeckel on the left so that's out. And with Aboushi/Ifedi on the right that's not much better. There is no "good side" of the line.

 

[Hyak]

It's more of bad personnel or coaching than it is commitment as they have tried to address OL with tons of draft capital.

That said, I do think I'd be much more tempted to go with a different line than what they are doing:

LT - Joeckel
LG - Odihambo
C - Britt
RG - Pocic
RT - Ifedi

 

[kf3339]

That article is exactly why I think our window is closing fast. The only way to change that trajectory is with a new offensive oriented HC that can create an offense now, yet still have a dominant defense for the next few years.

It is the only way our team is going back to a SB, or winning one anytime soon.

 

[Sun Tzu]

That article is exactly why I think our window is closing fast. The only way to change that trajectory is with a new offensive oriented HC that can create an offense now, yet still have a dominant defense for the next few years.

It is the only way our team is going back to a SB, or winning one anytime soon.

Only way?

Perhaps it's time to start a kids table around here so the grown ups can discuss Seahawks football intelligently while the kiddies fling false absolutes at each other.

" Absolute beliefs are simple, easy to comprehend, and false positives that offer us a false sense of security (Ugo Uche)."

 

[Hyak]

Logic and father time says the defense will continue regressing as the core gets older.

Offensively, they either need to change personnel to match what they want to do or adapt accordingly to the skill sets they have today.

 

[Hawks46]

There's more than one way to win a title. Patriots are a recent example. You play to your strengths.

I remember games where Lynch was ineffective and we won some of those games. We will have to do the same thing now. We've never had a dominant OL under Pete.

If you look at the numbers, Lynch was more productive in terms of ypc and in terms of yards gained before contact when we went 3 wide and single back.

When we went to a fullback, or ran with double TE's, we weren't nearly as effective running the ball. So this speaks to the fact that even with Lynch, we were better spreading teams out. With the OL's we've always had, we still weren't good enough to start games out running the ball when defenses absolutely knew we were running the ball and didn't have to respect anything else.

Now those teams were better at closing other teams out with the run in the 2nd half. That's really all that Pete cares about: being able to salt away a game and run the ball which is typically safer and turns the ball over less. Even Cable has said "you throw to score and run to win".

My issue is that we don't keep team on their heels by keeping them guessing. We're very very predictable and I don't like it. Varying temp from series to series, as well as using the pass to open up the run would do wonders.

 

[RCATES]

Well Pete has a good scapegoat right now with all this Protest/Unity BS. Meanwhile the team he's responsible for is a complete dumpster fire. Things will come full circle in 3 weeks when we're 2-4.

 

[Mojambo]

They have spread/pass first talent EVERYWHERE on offense.

Identity crisis will be solved by Pete allowing them to become what they ALREADY ARE.

 

[Sun Tzu]

They have spread/pass first talent EVERYWHERE on offense.

Identity crisis will be solved by Pete allowing them to become what they ALREADY ARE.

When you say EVERYWHERE, is the OL included in your everywhere?

 

[mrt144]

They have spread/pass first talent EVERYWHERE on offense.

Identity crisis will be solved by Pete allowing them to become what they ALREADY ARE.

When you say EVERYWHERE, is the OL included in your everywhere?

All OL played in the spread system in college at least.

 

[kf3339]

That article is exactly why I think our window is closing fast. The only way to change that trajectory is with a new offensive oriented HC that can create an offense now, yet still have a dominant defense for the next few years.

It is the only way our team is going back to a SB, or winning one anytime soon.

Only way?

Perhaps it's time to start a kids table around here so the grown ups can discuss Seahawks football intelligently while the kiddies fling false absolutes at each other.

" Absolute beliefs are simple, easy to comprehend, and false positives that offer us a false sense of security (Ugo Uche)."

Or perhaps posters such as yourself with no history here or with the Hawks will start to open their eyes to consistent trends that have been evident for the past several years, with no effort to change from this HC. But of course you wouldn't know anything about that. Would you? :34853_doh:

 

[Siouxhawk]

I believe the 12s have Pete's back and there was never any doubt about that.